Finding a date as an escapist

[invalidname]

Dating can be divided into two parts: finding ('chase') and keeping ('relationship'). This post will focus on finding. The finding ('chase') part of dating can be further subdivided into two more parts: matching criteria ('why') & platform ('how').

As an escapist, my matching criteria is straightforward: under thirty (like myself), desire to have children, reasonably fit, no disabilities, matches ethnicity (negotiable). Those are the big ones. Things that don't matter to me: hobbies, job, personality, interests, opinions, past experiences, adventurousness, liveliness, talkativity, fashion, etc. This may matter more in the 'keeping' phase but not for 'finding'.

Additionally I have the following strong points: have a decent job (make decent money), tall (almost 6ft), reasonably fit (a bit of a pot-belly but not to the point of obesity or anything).
Weak points when it comes to finding a date would be:
1) I am not willing to spend money on premium OLD/matchmaking services/mail order brides/etc. It's too hard to differentiate scams or if you're paying to chat with bots.
2) I have no friends, a minimal social life, and don't use social media. This is a deliberate choice that many an escapist make, but makes it hard to get a feel for what the fairer sex is looking for.
3) I am currently living in my parents basement to save on rent, but once I get an actual date I'll rent a place and move there.

My first question for the audience:
What are the (most attractive) qualities women are looking for in men these days? 6-pack/bodybuilding, good at pickup lines/small talk (any good books on that?), good OLD profile photos (should I be using photoshop to retouch them?), insert generic popular hobby here, fan of insert famous person, member of insert generic subculture, likes insert generic podcast/song/movie/tv show/book/anime/game, wears insert generic fancy suit, has insert generic wacky hairstyle, swaggers insert genericly, eats insert generic cosmopolitan food, visits insert generic tourist traps, plays insert generic sport, volunteers for insert generic good cause, etc.

This is a genuine question. The reason I ask is, I have a couple hours a day I can spend on improving my attractiveness quotient. I had hoped there would be no need for this, but I tried OLD and it's been around a week with no matches so it's probably necessary. For an escapist without many interactions with the opposite sex this can be a bit of a blind spot, so any answers are appreciated, even generic cliché ones. Just not something along the lines of "you should find a nice escapist to date" because that's like finding a needle in a haystack.

Now on to the second part of finding: the how. There are lots of different ways to date. I tried one free dating app, got a ton of suggestions, sent dozens of likes as well as several messages and voila: 0 matches. I don't need LS to find a list of popular dating apps and start a/b testing them out like that one guy who wrote a popular medium post about that - google works great for that. I can already tell I'm going to hate "wasting" time sending messages into the void and liking bots on all the dating apps about as much as I hated dropping my resume everywhere and dealing with insufferable recruiters when I was job hunting a couple years back, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. That said, I'm always open to alternative approaches but at least when it comes to IRL dating I don't think that tends to work well for people with no social circle.

My second question for y'all is the following:
When it comes to dating, is there any way to align incentives? Let me explain. I have a job. I'm not perfect at my job. But I make good money for the company, so they cut me a metric ton of slack. Is there a way to do something similar when it comes to a relationship? I guess, paying for the date instead of splitting the bill, buying an (expensive) gift at the end - does stuff like that make it more likely for them to overlook any imperfections or is it just a waste of money or otherwise counterproductive? The idea here would be to sneak a sentence into my OLD profile along the lines of 'food/drinks on me' or something if it helps get matches.

In conclusion, I hope this forum isn't dead and look forward to hearing attempts at answering the questions and ensuing discussion or perhaps lack thereof if everyone skips straight to the tl;dr.

tl;dr thanks for attending my ted talk.

[SumGuy]

What's an escapist?

The number one thing in my view you can change is your head.  All your "solutions" are those in line with things that impress a transactional person, where is it about money and looks, which all boils down to status.  There is also the pure physical, pure lust person so even if you live in a basement if you are cute, jacked and "gifted" let's say you have a chance...or if you are into some kink they are after where people are hard to find.

On the get a date then move out...usually it works the other way around, moving out first better helps you get a date in the sense it shows you are standing on your own two feet, can handle the world on your own.

As to chances, what women are in to...it's simple, different women are into different things.  The things you seem to think of and value all appear to be transactional, so those women are into success, money, a guy who looks good, and has social skills and a social circle..in a word more status than them.   Yes you can do this as the loner, but you really have to have social skills one-on-one to pull that off, or be very attractive or very rich, that is show your status is so high you don't need the social circle.

Now for non-transactional people...they want the same, for them it isn't about much of anything you listed.   You may well be there already and have just been sold the common load of horse hockey that transactional stuff is what matters most to everyone...now transactional people can't stand the thought the entire world does not buy into that..."It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave." 

 I also don't know why you think paid sites (they are several good ones) are rife with bots...never experienced a bot on a pay site, or a scam.  All my experience of scams and bots has been on free sites.

[glows]

Living in your parents' basement, waiting for the right date to make a move makes you a very passive man. This puts you at the back of the line and you remain unattractive and unappealing to many potential partners. What you're saying is that you'd rather remain comfortable instead of developing yourself prior to meeting a potential mate. Expensive gifts, a good job, paying for dates doesn't mean very much, in my opinion. What a person thinks of him/herself and the confidence they bring to the table matters. If you think you deserve that woman, prove it in terms of your capability, independence and through your actions. Nothing you say will shift the fact that you are passive in life even if you try to be confident while dating. 

I think a lot of your insecurity and lack of success might come from being passive deep down no matter how much you want and desire to meet a worthy partner. 

People tend to think that being sociable or inviting is a necessary trait for meeting others but I tend to disagree. You don't need to be a social butterfly and you certainly don't need social media either. I don't have it. I am trying to remain single for awhile longer but I cannot date without running into someone wanting a relationship (long term). Maybe I am a magnet for long term relationship types. I have no problem dating and I don't think I would have a problem remarrying either but it's not what I want. 

Don't be afraid to make some big changes about yourself for you such as gaining more confidence and independence moving out and nourishing yourself a little more with your activities and hobbies. When someone on your equal level or worthy to you meets you, you will have already been practicing and enjoying your life and you do not need to "move there" or anywhere. You will be rooted already in everything that you ought to be or want to be as a mate or partner. Good luck. 

 

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, bot said:

A. I am currently living in my parents basement to save on rent, but once I get an actual date I'll rent a place and move there.

B.6-pack/bodybuilding, good at pickup lines/small talk (any good books on that?), good OLD profile photos (should I be using photoshop to retouch them?), insert generic popular hobby here, fan of insert famous person, member of insert generic subculture, likes insert generic podcast/song/movie/tv show/book/anime/game, wears insert generic fancy suit, has insert generic wacky hairstyle, swaggers insert genericly, eats insert generic cosmopolitan food, visits insert generic tourist traps, plays insert generic sport, volunteers for insert generic good cause, etc.

Best to remove yourself form the incels mindset. As long as you are doing A., none of B. matters. Focus on getting your own place and making friends.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Foxhall]

Yes I think your post over complicates the whole thing,

although I know the dating game can be very frustrating for those of us who are not naturally good at it 

the similar thread the other day- I mentioned it is important for man to have passion in him- dialing that down a bit one could say just being able to hold a conversation and having enthusiasm for what he is talking about,

coming across as interesting in conversation- getting a bit of personality across

in terms of looks- if you work out and dress well keep yourself in decent shape- you have half a chance always,

about the buying stuff - I think women do like the man to be generous and it is an added bonus if you come up to scratch on the more important personality areas,

being generous and showing money on its own is of very little worth,

Personally Im not a major people person either- I prefer being alone most of the time,

although I have been able rise to the occasion when a nice lady appears.😊

so Id say just work on being knowledgeable on things, be able to hold a conversation and come across as relaxed and friendly.

[invalidname]

Thanks wiseman. Looking back on the opening post I agree it's not coming from a good place and positivity is important. I actually tried to get a mod to delete it back when it had zero replies but it's still up so 🤷‍♂️. It's unfortunate there's no edit/delete button on posts here. Actually I see you edited your post - how did you do that / where's the edit button located? I don't really agree with your all of your advise (why would I waste money renting a place if I'm not dating yet?) but I'm sure it's coming from a good place so thanks for chiming in. At this point in life I'll definitely be trying to make friends, but only girl friends and only one special someone (2 birds with one stone).

@SumGuy An escapist is someone who spends as little time as possible thinking about real life and as much time possible on solitary escapist activities such as video games, movies, books, etc. For example I love min-maxing, decompiling, modding, and replaying JRPGs and will spend hours/days/weeks/months doing so. I do try to keep my limited interactions IRL fairly transactional, so you're spot on about that. Honestly even before I read your post I was thinking something along the lines of "why did I ask these questions when I already know the answers - for 1, lose the pot-belly and build some muscles, for 2, unfortunately there are no ways to align the incentives so stop trying to find one," but it's good to get confirmation there's not some kind of hobby that's super popular among women these days which I should be picking up or something. I've never used paid dating sites, in fact a week ago was my first time using free ones, but it would be hard to live it down if I did get scammed after paying for such a site and given my lack of success on free sites I doubt paid ones would be much different. I think what's holding me back in terms of attractiveness is the pot-belly (although it shouldn't be visible in photos) so I'll focus on losing that first. In terms of moving out before dating, the first date wouldn't take place in my apartment anyways, so I don't see how it matters. I get that it's important to move out soon after I start dating so that that doesn't hold me back, but I'm not seeing it matter for the first couple dates - how would anyone even know whether or not I'm staying in my parent's basement unless I take them there. Anyways I appreciate your perspective and by and large it lines up with what I was thinking which is always a good sign.

@glows "What you're saying is that you'd rather remain comfortable instead of developing yourself prior to meeting a potential mate. Expensive gifts, a good job, paying for dates doesn't mean very much, in my opinion. What a person thinks of him/herself and the confidence they bring to the table matters. If you think you deserve that woman, prove it in terms of your capability, independence and through your actions." - For me it's about having children, not the woman. I'm perfectly happy living as an escapist (passive, I guess you would call it) but want kids. It would be more accurate to say I 'deserve' kids and since in order for that to happen I need to 'develop' myself and attract a woman I'll do so. Same effect, different cause. "I think a lot of your insecurity and lack of success might come from being passive deep down no matter how much you want and desire to meet a worthy partner." - I blame the lack of success on OLD. The swipe left/swipe right apps are ridiculous - by default only a single photo is shown with no accompanying text; how can that possibly be the basis for anything? I'll try IRL dating via meetup.com next, it'll be a bit weird to go to these events alone and to find a date instead of for the event itself but worth a shot. "I am trying to remain single for awhile longer but I cannot date without running into someone wanting a relationship (long term). Maybe I am a magnet for long term relationship types." - if you feel comfortable answering, what platforms / IRL events are you finding singles / dates on?

@Foxhall Yeah I agree the opening post needlessly overcomplicated things, honestly it was more of a rant than anything else. "just work on being knowledgeable on things, be able to hold a conversation and come across as relaxed and friendly" - I'd like to think I can already do this, just not dating apps especially the swipe left/right ones. I think I'll try to find a date IRL next time, that should work better. And especially for stuff like conversation skills and getting personality across that's probably something I'll automatically get better at over time by asking women out IRL or at least interacting with them in meetups or the equivalent.

Thanks for responding all, I got better answers than I expected. Mods feel free to close this thread / mark it as resolved etc.

[CaliforniaGirl]

14 hours ago, bot said:

Dating can be divided into two parts: finding ('chase') and keeping ('relationship'). This post will focus on finding. The finding ('chase') part of dating can be further subdivided into two more parts: matching criteria ('why') & platform ('how').

As an escapist, my matching criteria is straightforward: under thirty (like myself), desire to have children, reasonably fit, no disabilities, matches ethnicity (negotiable). Those are the big ones. Things that don't matter to me: hobbies, job, personality, interests, opinions, past experiences, adventurousness, liveliness, talkativity, fashion, etc. This may matter more in the 'keeping' phase but not for 'finding'.

Additionally I have the following strong points: have a decent job (make decent money), tall (almost 6ft), reasonably fit (a bit of a pot-belly but not to the point of obesity or anything).
Weak points when it comes to finding a date would be:
1) I am not willing to spend money on premium OLD/matchmaking services/mail order brides/etc. It's too hard to differentiate scams or if you're paying to chat with bots.
2) I have no friends, a minimal social life, and don't use social media. This is a deliberate choice that many an escapist make, but makes it hard to get a feel for what the fairer sex is looking for.
3) I am currently living in my parents basement to save on rent, but once I get an actual date I'll rent a place and move there.

My first question for the audience:
What are the (most attractive) qualities women are looking for in men these days? 6-pack/bodybuilding, good at pickup lines/small talk (any good books on that?), good OLD profile photos (should I be using photoshop to retouch them?), insert generic popular hobby here, fan of insert famous person, member of insert generic subculture, likes insert generic podcast/song/movie/tv show/book/anime/game, wears insert generic fancy suit, has insert generic wacky hairstyle, swaggers insert genericly, eats insert generic cosmopolitan food, visits insert generic tourist traps, plays insert generic sport, volunteers for insert generic good cause, etc.

This is a genuine question. The reason I ask is, I have a couple hours a day I can spend on improving my attractiveness quotient. I had hoped there would be no need for this, but I tried OLD and it's been around a week with no matches so it's probably necessary. For an escapist without many interactions with the opposite sex this can be a bit of a blind spot, so any answers are appreciated, even generic cliché ones. Just not something along the lines of "you should find a nice escapist to date" because that's like finding a needle in a haystack.

Now on to the second part of finding: the how. There are lots of different ways to date. I tried one free dating app, got a ton of suggestions, sent dozens of likes as well as several messages and voila: 0 matches. I don't need LS to find a list of popular dating apps and start a/b testing them out like that one guy who wrote a popular medium post about that - google works great for that. I can already tell I'm going to hate "wasting" time sending messages into the void and liking bots on all the dating apps about as much as I hated dropping my resume everywhere and dealing with insufferable recruiters when I was job hunting a couple years back, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. That said, I'm always open to alternative approaches but at least when it comes to IRL dating I don't think that tends to work well for people with no social circle.

My second question for y'all is the following:
When it comes to dating, is there any way to align incentives? Let me explain. I have a job. I'm not perfect at my job. But I make good money for the company, so they cut me a metric ton of slack. Is there a way to do something similar when it comes to a relationship? I guess, paying for the date instead of splitting the bill, buying an (expensive) gift at the end - does stuff like that make it more likely for them to overlook any imperfections or is it just a waste of money or otherwise counterproductive? The idea here would be to sneak a sentence into my OLD profile along the lines of 'food/drinks on me' or something if it helps get matches.

In conclusion, I hope this forum isn't dead and look forward to hearing attempts at answering the questions and ensuing discussion or perhaps lack thereof if everyone skips straight to the tl;dr.

tl;dr thanks for attending my ted talk.

Man....just have a beer or a wine or whatever and relax and try to have a few laughs on your date.

Start there.

[invalidname]

@CaliforniaGirl

Yeah the first step is to get a date okay. Easy if you fit the 'attractive to women' profile, otherwise you have to work really hard to compensate - get a 6pack etc.

Well that said, I found some speed dating services which I'll be trying which in theory make it easy for everyone to get dates. How well they work in practice remains to be seen.

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 minutes ago, bot said:

@CaliforniaGirl

Yeah the first step is to get a date okay. Easy if you fit the 'attractive to women' profile, otherwise you have to work really hard to compensate - get a 6pack etc.

Well that said, I found some speed dating services which I'll be trying which in theory make it easy for everyone to get dates. How well they work in practice remains to be seen.

You said you're overweight. Not easy for the woman to maintain her weight either. "To compensate"...what do you mean? If you want "basically healthy" in a mate then also be basically healthy. It isn't 100% tit-for-tat like that but you get the idea. It's just that this ^ sounds like you're resentful or have to go way out of your way or something ("compensate") yet you expect it in a woman. Don't forget that part.

Good luck with the speed dating. You never know!

[invalidname]

@CaliforniaGirl

I mean sure if your definition of overweight is a bit of belly fat I guess you could say that; medically I'm not. I don't mind losing the extra weight, which is good for my long-term health anyways. It's not getting matches (dates) that bothers me. Something that may not change even if I lose a couple pounds since that's not the only factor involved. Having to take time away from the stuff I like doing (escapism) and spend it on IRL stuff I hate doing (social gatherings, meetups, speed dating, non-swipe dating apps, etc) is a bitter pill to swallow. That said, on the bright side who knows, a lot of this stuff is new to me and it's possible (although improbable) that I may come to like it.

[Lisa]

Thread closed at OP's request