What's the point?

[Newby1234]

Hi.  Short-story long.  I've been remarried forn10 years, together 12.  Good man.  Platonic relationship for at least 4 years.  No interest for him sexualy anymore.  I started seeing OM 15 months ago, just for sex. He is separated from his family for work and Covid increased that time frame. 

Starts typical, met online.  Great to have some of that form of intimacy again and great sex.  I struggled to do much chatting after the deeds, but he always desired more conversation dressed.  About 8 months he got me a dumb Xmas present.  Was letting me know when he would be unavailable.   January after his return he wanted to cook for me and chat.  This was days after his family left.  Whined all the time I never stayed long enough. Wanted sleep overs.  Then went on for months.  Then would pull back a bit and return to the same. I asked for consistent behavior and expectations.  Nothing about leaving anyone, but either just a pleasant sex thing or more.  The unexpected and variable behavior was throwing me off. 

Anyway, it was fairly consistent and more involved for about 4 months.  Quick text he was leaving when going home before heading to the airport,  now dates of return.  Quick response when return was delayed.  Eating together, chatting more etc.  After his last trip home in May it has become distant. Little messages, sometimes just fun, chatting and snuggles.  Other times dinner or dessert.  

It's turned corners again. I had teased months ago that when he was unavailable for a month or so I may need a stand in for him.  The last two times we were together he mentioned another man,  which has never something he would say. Text have been next to nothing, in person normal interactions. Usually he always wants to see me a day or two before he is out of the picture. Not this time.  But he has been more cuddly and intense physically- emotional sexually our last few meetings. Our last one he wanted to feed me, have a drink, chatted, showed me pics of his kids for the first time.  House tour of new projects.  Marriages conversations are always careful.  I mentioned I has talked with a counselor for a few months early in the year and she was clear from emails, text between me and my husband our relationship was not going to change or improve after the same addressed things for years. I mentioned I didn't want to start over, so it is was it was.  He had a clear statement of the same and then carefully rephrased it. Then he was a bit testy and ready for me to leave.  He has young kids, mine are grown. Very different scenarios. Never heard from him and he is unavailable again. 

I'm not seeking more, just can't figure out this behavior.   Guilt, sure.  More careful before family comes because the neighbors have noticed.  But the push pull thing.  Let's cuddle, eat, chat.  About everything but spouses.   Be close, can't be close. He wants to cuddle, connected sex.  What in the world is this behavior about?

[BaileyB]

He’s clearly formed an emotional attachment to you and as such, I would think that he is quite frustrated by the transactional manner with which you view this relationship. 

[glows]

It’s non-committal and also unreliable. He has other commitments as do you so you’ll never be each others’ top priority.

What do you mean by this “or more.”?

“ I asked for consistent behavior and expectations.  Nothing about leaving anyone, but either just a pleasant sex thing or more.” 

[Newby1234]

Thanks.  No there will never be a priority thing.  Not wanting that. Maybe an expressed "hey, I care about you. " or auch.  Just not understanding his interest in the communication sharing, wanting to eat together, sharing stories,  drinks, coffee etc.  Then pulls away and starts again. It is pointless in this situation to do so. 

[glows]

Isn’t it obvious he cares about you if you’re cuddling or he wants to talk or doing other things besides just sex? Or is the sex cold and going through the motions like scratching an itch? 

You’re looking for more consistent communication but that may potentially jeopardize his time with his family or his wife/partner finding out. Talking about hopes and dreams about life together with you would be a no-no if neither of you are looking to leave your spouses without it getting complicated so the talks or chats are bound to be limited in a sense.

[BaileyB]

It’s human nature to want a emotional connection with a sexual partner. 

[Newby1234]

Glows, the sex is fantastic, caring and emotional.   I feel that he cares,  but the inconsistent actions make me question that.  He has much at stake and does need to be very careful.  Yes, communication topics will always be limited on both sides.  I am careful with words and have let him guide how it flows with all of this because I really didn't know what I felt about it or would be ok with. 

I'm not at all or have I made it a transactional situation.   The sharing etc actually very much disturbs me.  I care very much for him and those moments just remind me how little intimacy I have in my marriage. Especially as this is not something that is an emotional connection I can count on or feel consistently¹.  It makes me feel unsettled and questioning if my reading of the situation is correct.

 

Bailey, it is very much so. 

 

[glows]

It makes perfect sense when you explain it that way. Yes, I’d imagine it’s unsettling, a reminder perhaps of what’s missing but also what is fragile in this new relationship with the other man. Would you say you’re at a crossroads? Figuring out what you need to be happy upon realizing that both situations are not what you expected?

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Layla19455 said:

I started seeing OM 15 months ago, just for sex. I struggled to do much chatting after the deeds, but he always desired more conversation dressed.  About 8 months he got me a dumb Xmas present.  Whined all the time I never stayed long enough. Wanted sleep overs.  Then went on for months. I had teased months ago that when he was unavailable for a month or so I may need a stand in for him. 

Quote

The sex is fantastic, caring and emotional. I care very much for him

Is it possible that he is not the only one with inconsistent and unclear expectations?

Edited July 26, 2021 by BaileyB

[Newby1234]

7 hours ago, glows said:

It makes perfect sense when you explain it that way. Yes, I’d imagine it’s unsettling, a reminder perhaps of what’s missing but also what is fragile in this new relationship with the other man. Would you say you’re at a crossroads? Figuring out what you need to be happy upon realizing that both situations are not what you expected?

This is absolutely true.  My spouse is an amazing person, I love him dearly. Roommate living does get very lonely.   And those moments with OM break me down realizing what has been missing for so long.  Simply, if they could be enjoyed out of caring in a careful bubble, it is enough to feel those things.  I'm not disrupting my marriage and life for that type of relationship or new life.  I am not wanting to invest in anything fully again. But having it surprisingly pop in this way has made me uneasy. But, uneasy because it is not stated or consistent from a caring perspective or vocalizations.  I would never seek to change his obligations, the value he has for him family is tremendous and should be.  But this thing meets needs we both are missing for whatever reasons.  

[Newby1234]

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Is it possible that he is not the only one with inconsistent and unclear expectations?

Yes, as careful as I think I am, it would not surprise me.   When I questioned what or how I was supposed to view things in January,  it threw him off.  He was upset at a need to try to define it or vocalize feelings.  But acknowledged he had feelings.  Then he was open and easily engaged for a few months, giddy and silly even.  But closed that off. Did I contribute to the change, idk.  

Great thinking points.  And I'm on the no commutation situation right now.  Opens a time to let everything settle.  I'm be in a good place when I hear from him again and the circle with start over or it will have to end.  

[Newby1234]

Thanks both of you for your thoughts!

[stillafool]

11 hours ago, Layla19455 said:

Just not understanding his interest in the communication sharing, wanting to eat together, sharing stories,  drinks, coffee etc.  Then pulls away and starts again. It is pointless in this situation to do so. 

What is confusing about grabbing a bite to eat, talking, having drinks together after having sex with each other for a year and a half?  Or, even a cuddle after sex?  Maybe he doesn't like treating his affair partner like Wham, Bam, Thank You Ma'am.  I wouldn't take any of that behavior to mean he is now falling in love with you and wants more; just that he isn't treating you like a random piece of a$$.  If you're going to cheat with this guy you should appreciate it.

[Newby1234]

Lol thanks.   Not expecting a statement of feelings of love, he expresses like.  It is the hot and cold crop that causes confusion with the rest of his behaviors and actions.   In the end,  it doesn't really matter what he does. It is how I choose to interact or step away. 

[BaileyB]

37 minutes ago, Layla19455 said:

It is the hot and cold crop that causes confusion with the rest of his behaviors and actions.

Typical of almost any extramarital affair.

If you want a sexual relationship that is devoid of human emotion, you should find yourself a one night stand. 
If you don’t want a complicated relationship with messy emotions and unclear expectations, you shouldn’t be involved in an extramarital affair. That is the very nature of the relationship. 

[Lotsgoingon]

I hate to say it, but having ANY expectation in an affair is risky and really unrealistic.

It's an affair--a sneak-around. People are inconsistent on sneak-arounds. Sure, there are some people who schedule better more than others. But look there is a standard difference in expectations in a non-affair relationship. In an affair, of course, there are differences. 

But with the affair, you have zero standing, zero credibility, for asking for more. And keep in mind that though he surely likes you, he might at the same time feel very guilty and conflicted. And he doesn't want to tell you that.

Expecting consistency and clarity out of an affair is almost a contradiction in terms, and that goes for when the partners really like each other or are just borrowing each other's bodies.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Crazelnut]

I think he has developed feelings for you and got very hurt when you joked about a stand-in. His reaction to hurt feelings was to pull away.

[Newby1234]

Sincerely appreciate thoughts and reviewing of some things. I have never been an on the side person or cheater.  It was hard to step that direction. It is harder on my self esteem to grasps a few moments of what my marriage used to have and have faded. I have never not been important in a relationship after a few dates in my single days long ago.

 Sex truly was the intent when it started and surprisingly I did get lucky with a man looking for the same but with excellent manners.   He hadn't cheated either and out initial meetings were difficult.  He's sweet, very attentive, never selfish, buys sex toys and swings, shares easily and I appreciate that. But also surprised I developed feelings. I can easily separate sex and emotions, never an issue.  He is also from different part of the world, I enjoy the accent and view of things. I think whatever there maybe for feelings was a surprise in both directions.  And no, can't have expectations, but when he did freely and easily it was just a few texts or random things, but we were both happier.  Something may have been concerning his last trip home that was never shared, things were different then. 

It is what it is.  Thanks again!

Edited July 27, 2021 by Layla19455

[Bonifidelifelover]

9 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Typical of almost any extramarital affair.

If you want a sexual relationship that is devoid of human emotion, you should find yourself a one night stand. 
If you don’t want a complicated relationship with messy emotions and unclear expectations, you shouldn’t be involved in an extramarital affair. That is the very nature of the relationship. 

I agree very typical. My MM recently popped up when wifey was out of town. Then he went MIA again. Decided it was time to just snip the contact & not play that game. I already knew this was typical. Decide I did not want to be caught up in that bs. So if ur trying To figure out why the hot & cold just read other stories in here, even go back years it’s all the same pattern to the T!

[ExpatInItaly]

Your expectations are unrealistic, OP. 

This is an affair, not a relationship. You have been clear that you are going to stay in your marriage, so why would this OM be putting in more effort to show you he cares? You can't expect someone to have sex with you and share their feelings - but only at your convenience. 

You want emotional connnection. You can't get that from an AP on a consistent basis, especially when you have made it clear that you are not leaving your husband. Comes with the territory of an affair. Can't have your cake and eat it too, in other words. 

[Newby1234]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Your expectations are unrealistic, OP. 

This is an affair, not a relationship. You have been clear that you are going to stay in your marriage, so why would this OM be putting in more effort to show you he cares? You can't expect someone to have sex with you and share their feelings - but only at your convenience. 

You want emotional connnection. You can't get that from an AP on a consistent basis, especially when you have made it clear that you are not leaving your husband. Comes with the territory of an affair. Can't have your cake and eat it too, in other words. 

This is absolutely true 👍.   But working through feelings and understanding of the situation on a different mindset has hit a place that it was needed to analyze, internalize, and regain appropriate perspective.  

[glows]

It may also cause you to question whether you would indeed want more out of a relationship? 

[spiderowl]

I don't think a FWB relationship with a married man is a substitute for a happy marriage or other romantic relationship.

When people are together and intimate, married or otherwise, there is a tendency to share.  He probably pulls back when he feels he has shared too much or spent too much time with you.  As you say, he has a lot to lose.

You are the other woman in this relationship and really wanting more from your married FWB.  I think, like most OW, you are likely to find this endlessly disappointing with a few highs to make you want to sustain the relationship.

If you are hoping for more from this married man, you are likely to have to wait until his children are grown up - at least.  He may be happily married, unlike you.  It's such a tenuous and dodgy situation.  Is it worth the stress?

[Wiseman2]

On 7/25/2021 at 8:42 PM, Layla19455 said:

  He has young kids, mine are grown. Very different scenarios. Never heard from him and he is unavailable again. 

Since all you want is trysts, you can expect that his family comes first.

So he's not being "inconsistent", to upset you, it's that his real life is a priority and your situation with him is just a pasttime.

[Newby1234]

It's been a month away from OM. His family will be here another week.   I'm sadly irritated that I expect to hear back from in next 10 days or so and dreading that I won't.   He's always does, I run back.  I crave the intimacy that I don't have,  that's my issue.   Not sure what my decision is about that.  

2 weeks ago I was at the beach with my granddaughter.  I've saw him with his family across the beach,  small location. Idk what caught my attention to notice them, but felt like I was been watched.  I was curious and watched the  way he behaved with his wife.  Weirdly,  that doesn't bother me, as in I'm not jealous or need to be different.  I just wouldn't want her to have pain that this would cause.  

He was very similar to how he behaves with me.  Tender, a bit insecure, wanted to impress, happy.  Idk when he initially saw me.  I was in the water, entirely wet, bobbing, just happy in my day.  So it's weird that he did honestly with the distance and crowd.  I know he was aware when they headed over,  he keep looking over.   When taking pictures he did the same with and without the camera. It was odd watching his distraction.   Rather humorous. 

Bizarre.   Maybe it is very simple, seeing one another in a new light.