I have just gone through a day of silent treatment

[mark clemson]

51 minutes ago, PhoenixRising8 said:

(1) Regardless of what he intended, the fact he would do this is indicative of his level of empathy and his lack of awareness or concern about impact of his words/actions on others.

(2) Sharing with friends and family is one thing, but with your OW?

Well - to point one - there's a big difference between a certain amount of clueless-ness and deliberately provoking jealousy or other negative feelings, right? One is deliberate emotional machination/mild abuse, the other is just not understanding how much it upsets the other person.  I think we've ALL accidentally upset someone at some point in our lives, no?

As for point 2 if I had an OW and considered her a "close friend" in some ways, then sure I could see myself doing this. Theoretically I have a much more intimate relationship with her than with, e.g. work friends. IF she had been saying for weeks and months how she was jealous of my wife and didn't want to hear about things like this about my family life, then presumably I would "take the hint" and not do it (and deliberately doing so to make her feel bad would be mean on my part).

Overall, I have a tendency to give people the benefit of a doubt. That has sometimes bitten me in the rear end in life, but c'est la vie. I think it has also prevented some situations that weren't actually negative ones from devolving into negative.

Edited July 31, 2021 by mark clemson

[Davina1]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, glows said:

Ok. Get cracking, girl. You'll feel a lot better once your house is in order. It sounds like a fun evening and weekend. You deserve that. Do more of that. Less of this man. 

 

Agreed . Just made some plans to meet my relatives for lunch one of the weekends he is away.  
had a good day today, I didn’t message him.   . Having a bbq tomorrow so busy at least . 

 

On 7/30/2021 at 6:00 PM, Taramere said:

Sounds like he wants to take mean swipes at you and then play the "I didn't mean anything by it.  Jeez you're so sensitive..."  game It wouldn't surprise me if this guy's own father cheated on his mother and he's trying to get some sort of payback.  

What are you planning to do longer term?  Do you feel like you could exercise the discipline to stop all contact with him permanently?

I hope so . Even though I am not messaging him at the moment I am still keeping an eye to see if he has . But it’s weekend and him and wife usually spend weekend together. They don’t have family so do everything together. I actually am Very lucky in  a way in that I have family and friends so I am going to be getting out more now and realise that’s now what I need to do . I let this rule my life for too long . 
 

actually i have one close friend who knows about this and she thinks he does this because he is the one who may be more jealous of my life and it’s a way of making me feel insecure. 

2 hours ago, PhoenixRising8 said:

Sharing with friends and family is one thing, but with your OW?  Would you really share, especially if you know your OW is emotionally invested?  How is this not cold and callous, self centered and devoid of respect or caring for the other person? 🤦‍♀️

I certainly have never shared anything to make him feel he was not a priority to me . 
just remembered another incident recently. His wife was out late and he stayed up late because he wanted to make sure she was home safe and sound . Miss stupid here kept him company online .  Couple of weeks later I had long drive home from a meeting and wasn’t getting in until after 11pm .  Got home and had an enail saying tired off to bed . Chat tomorrow.  I did reply saying got home safe . Be good morning got a reply about midday saying that’s good  

lol that showed me the pecking order alright .

 

sorry having a little vent to self here 🤔

 

[Davina1]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Well - to point one - there's a big difference between a certain amount of clueless-ness and deliberately provoking jealousy or other negative feelings, right? One is deliberate emotional machination/mild abuse, the other is just not understanding how much it upsets the other person.  I think we've ALL accidentally upset someone at some point in our lives, no?

As for point 2 if I had an OW and considered her a "close friend" in some ways, then sure I could see myself doing this. Theoretically I have a much more intimate relationship with her than with, e.g. work friends. IF she had been saying for weeks and months how she was jealous of my wife and didn't want to hear about things like this about my family life, then presumably I would "take the hint" and not do it (and deliberately doing so to make her feel bad would be mean on my part).

Overall, I have a tendency to give people the benefit of a doubt. That has sometimes bitten me in the rear end in life, but c'est la vie. I think it has also prevented some situations that weren't actually negative ones from devolving into negative.

Mark I do too tbh but I really think he should have known better at this point. 

I do appreciate though that perhaps it wasn’t intended to hurt but it did.  

 

[glows]

10 hours ago, Davina1 said:

Agreed . Just made some plans to meet my relatives for lunch one of the weekends he is away.  
had a good day today, I didn’t message him.   . Having a bbq tomorrow so busy at least . 

 

I hope so . Even though I am not messaging him at the moment I am still keeping an eye to see if he has . But it’s weekend and him and wife usually spend weekend together. They don’t have family so do everything together. I actually am Very lucky in  a way in that I have family and friends so I am going to be getting out more now and realise that’s now what I need to do . I let this rule my life for too long . 
 

actually i have one close friend who knows about this and she thinks he does this because he is the one who may be more jealous of my life and it’s a way of making me feel insecure. 

I certainly have never shared anything to make him feel he was not a priority to me . 
just remembered another incident recently. His wife was out late and he stayed up late because he wanted to make sure she was home safe and sound . Miss stupid here kept him company online .  Couple of weeks later I had long drive home from a meeting and wasn’t getting in until after 11pm .  Got home and had an enail saying tired off to bed . Chat tomorrow.  I did reply saying got home safe . Be good morning got a reply about midday saying that’s good  

lol that showed me the pecking order alright .

 

sorry having a little vent to self here 🤔

 

And think of the peacefulness in your life without all this drama or “pecking order”? Is it necessary? Maybe all this is a good time to also reflect on what happiness overall means to you. A good time to think things through.

[Davina1]

3 hours ago, glows said:

And think of the peacefulness in your life without all this drama or “pecking order”? Is it necessary? Maybe all this is a good time to also reflect on what happiness overall means to you. A good time to think things through.

Yes it is.  The sorriest thing I ever did was let him back into my life .   Few short emails exchanged this morn . 
 

i feel tired and weary but have a full on day ahead 

 

[Daliah]

This hideous individual is certainly no prize…or maybe a prize t*at! Ugh, vile….I wouldn’t go near that with somebody else’s…🤢🤮

Davina, I really do wish you better things.., use this timely break from this self entitled immature brat of a man to engage in things that boost your self esteem and confidence.  If you have a friend you trust implicitly, lean on them. This is no life for you, this is merely existing in the shadow of a person who sees your vulnerability and wrings it dry for his own pleasure, no matter what he ‘says’ to you.  He’s a disgusting pig in my humble opinion. 
 

By the way, I’m a former OW … I found my self respect and dignity and knocked that s**t on the head when I realised what a treacherous b*Tch I’d become to my own kind.

[glows]

5 hours ago, Davina1 said:

Yes it is.  The sorriest thing I ever did was let him back into my life .   Few short emails exchanged this morn . 
 

i feel tired and weary but have a full on day ahead 

 

Well, if you let him back in just remember you can also projectile rocket him back out. It works both ways. Sending you lots of strength. 

[BaileyB]

23 hours ago, mark clemson said:

As for point 2 if I had an OW and considered her a "close friend" in some ways, then sure I could see myself doing this. Theoretically I have a much more intimate relationship with her than with, e.g. work friends. IF she had been saying for weeks and months how she was jealous of my wife and didn't want to hear about things like this about my family life, then presumably I would "take the hint" and not do it (and deliberately doing so to make her feel bad would be mean on my part).

Consider that a woman is trying desperately to get pregnant, has tried fertility treatments with no success, and her sister becomes pregnant. It’s a terribly hard thing - out of consideration for her sister, the pregnant sister is unlikely to flaunt her pregnancy because she has empathy for the pain her sister is suffering related to infertility. 

To share this information as he would share with any close friend, he is considering only his own perspective. IF this MM was to consider this situation from the perspective of his OW, he would not be bragging about his planned vacation with his wife. It’s a very inconsiderate and unkind thing to do. It’s very obvious why the OW would be upset by this - as in my example of the two sisters, one who is struggling with infertility and the other that becomes pregnant - it’s common sense not to flaunt your happiness in front of someone that you know to be unhappy/desperately want something that you have, and they do not. Just like it’s common sense not to flaunt your vacation with your wife in front of your affair partner. 

Of course he shared this information purposefully to remind her where she stands in the pecking order. Either that, or he is self-absorbed that he lacks any awareness or any concern for her feelings. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

^^ well, I'll take OP's word for it that he should know better. She's closer to the situation than I am.

Speaking generally, unless it's been communicated in some way that "I'm very jealous of your wife" or "this kind of information distresses me" I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect someone to know. I think the example you give of a woman trying to get pregnant may be a fairly extreme case; a MM may simply not realize how his OW feels about his marriage in the same way unless it's been communicated.

People sometimes figure out how others must feel from context, and sometimes they don't. One can hope for that, but if one expects a high degree of "sensitivity" in these matters, one is sure to be disappointed sooner or later.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

a MM may simply not realize how his OW feels about his marriage in the same way unless it's been communicated.

Mark, how many OW on this site are supportive and want to hear details of their MM’s happy marriage? Few and far between. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[Taramere]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Mark, how many OW on this site are supportive and want to hear details of their MM’s happy marriage? Few and far between. 

I was about to say something similar.  I'm sure there are situations where the OW is absolutely fine with her MM being happily married, wants to hear about his holidays with his wife etc...but I would think a situation like this is the exception rather than the norm.  Nothing about the way Davina is presenting this situation suggests that her MM would have any reason to believe she falls into that "cool with his marriage - no issues about it, happy for them both" exception.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Taramere

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, Taramere said:

I was about to say something similar.  I'm sure there are situations where the OW is absolutely fine with her MM being happily married, wants to hear about his holidays with his wife etc...but I would think a situation like this is the exception rather than the norm.  Nothing about the way Davina is presenting this situation suggests that her MM would have any reason to believe she falls into that "cool with his marriage - no issues about it, happy for them both" exception.

So, either he really is that dense and self absorbed or he did this very purposefully. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and as such, I think he knew actually what he was doing…

[PhoenixRising8]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Mark, how many OW on this site are supportive and want to hear details of their MM’s happy marriage? Few and far between. 

It is remarkable how the tone of responses has changes in the last little while.  You can see the mental gymnastics being played out to give the WS the benefit of the doubt.  These are not the sort of posts I remember on my threads.  Makes me wonder if there isn't projection going on ...

[IfWishesWereHorses]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

So, either he really is that dense and self absorbed or he did this very purposefully. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and as such, I think he knew actually what he was doing…

Of course friends would share their cool resort and expect a friend to be happy for them, in most cases! I invite some of my girlfriends every now and then to the beach. I can’t bring the whole group and typically don’t want to. The friend who will spend the whole trip (and has) monopolizing the conversation and complaining is probably last on the list for invites. So I can’t, don’t invite everyone who might enjoy going… as a result I don’t post on social media or send them pics of all our good times. That would be rude and hurtful. Of course he knew what he was doing. Look what I can do, look how awesome my life is… and you get to watch by the sidelines! Lucky you! 

[Prudence V]

On 7/27/2021 at 10:58 PM, Davina1 said:

Sent me a link to the resort and of course I got upset and jealous .

Unless someone (anyone! Friend, family, lover, colleague…) actually asked about the venue, the only reason to send the link would be to gloat, to boast, to make the other person jealous. 
 

Pre-pandemic, we used to go away from time to time. We live in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, and on the edge of two others, so there are loads of gorgeous places close by. When we have catch-ups with friends, we often chat about what each person / couple has been doing, etc - and we would never dream of flaunting our plans or past trips unless we’re specifically asked for details.
 

Mostly “we’ll be away for a couple of days in X” or “we’re just back from Y” suffices, unless they’re planning a getaway too and want recommendations. Otherwise, showing off about the gorgeous facilities just strikes me as a quick way to ensure you’re not asked over again in a hurry / you’re the colleague everyone avoids / you get a rep as someone who’s so insecure you need to show off all the time / etc. 
 

In a situation like this, it goes far beyond normal niceties of behaviour. This guy is trying to set up a competition between OW and BW, because he wants them fighting over him as some kind of prize. 🤮 On a scale of fragile egos, he’s so far out there that even Jeff Bezos’s phallic rocket couldn’t reach it. 

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

Unless someone (anyone! Friend, family, lover, colleague…) actually asked about the venue, the only reason to send the link would be to gloat, to boast, to make the other person jealous. 

Or, it could be the action of a guy who feels confident that the OW knows their place and doesn't feel there's any reason to hide what his real life consists of.  Seriously, if one is married, why hide what's going on in real life?

And FWIW, if I was going somewhere great, my friends, family and colleagues would know about it (cue FB photo sharing)....so why not the lover too?  

Edited August 2, 2021 by basil67

[Prudence V]

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

And FWIW, if I was going somewhere great, my friends, family and colleagues would know about it (cue FB photo sharing)....so why not the lover too?  

IMV, there’s a world of difference between sharing pix on FB (it’s my stream, it’s not targeted at any particular person - it’s like public journalling or such) and actually sending a link to a specific person, to say, look, look - I’m going to this really cool place, *and you’re not* 😛

And, in this context, it’s “I’m going to this really cool place with my wife, *and you’re not* 😛

 

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

it could be the action of a guy who feels confident that the OW knows their place

Perhaps. But it still has a spiteful undertone. It’s  oversharing. Simply saying, “we’re going away” would be “not hiding”. Anything beyond that is superfluous. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

IMV, there’s a world of difference between sharing pix on FB (it’s my stream, it’s not targeted at any particular person - it’s like public journalling or such) and actually sending a link to a specific person, to say, look, look - I’m going to this really cool place, *and you’re not* 😛

And, in this context, it’s “I’m going to this really cool place with my wife, *and you’re not* 😛

 

Perhaps. But it still has a spiteful undertone. It’s  oversharing. Simply saying, “we’re going away” would be “not hiding”. Anything beyond that is superfluous. 

You said that the only reason to tell a colleague/friend/family/lover about the venue would if they asked...otherwise it would be to gloat. Yet we do exactly that when we ‘check in’ on FB.  We all know exactly which  resort our workmate is at when we see their feeds.

However, with an affair partner, it’s the receiving of half truths which enable people to keep up the self deception we see going on in far too many affairs.  Wouldn’t it be better if they did know the real truth?

Edited August 2, 2021 by basil67

[BaileyB]

56 minutes ago, basil67 said:

However, with an affair partner, it’s the receiving of half truths which enable people to keep up the self deception we see going on in far too many affairs.  Wouldn’t it be better if they did know the real truth?

I agree with you basil. It’s often only when someone is presented with a hard truth that they can no longer excuse that they start to re-examine their relationship and consider the possibility of leaving…

Reading back on previous posts it seems like she is much more invested in this EA than he has been - he has clearly demonstrated that his wife is his priority and he will not leave. This communication is in keeping with other things he has said/done. 

Hopefully OP, your anger will help you to put this relationship in context and make a different decision for yourself. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

21 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Mark, how many OW on this site are supportive and want to hear details of their MM’s happy marriage? Few and far between. 

Perhaps, but the question isn't really how the OW feels, it's how well the MM understands how she feels, which is a different issue. Generally, I don't think a typical MM is going to have the level of awareness of what his OW might be thinking/feeling that a LS regular who reads this stuff all the time would.

OP read what I suggested and didn't agree - since she's closer to the situation than I am, I'll take her word for it. That's fine with me (and unfortunate for her, but c'est la vie).

Speaking more generally:

- Barring some reason to think this way, I'm not the sort of person to assume deliberate malice when simple lack of awareness will do just fine as an explanation.

- People generally, and men in particular are notorious for not being cued in emotionally to how their partner may be feeling. Lame valentine's gifts, missed anniversaries, "he never says he loves me" etc etc, are common enough to be cliche. That's ALL men, not just MMs. (And really all PEOPLE since women are perfectly capable of this too.)

- As per the above, expecting a romantic partner to always know how you're feeling is in fact unrealistic and furthermore one of the ways unnecessary friction gets generated in a relationship. Most human beings are simply not particularly good mind readers.

I think my views are, frankly, quite reasonable and rational ones. Like other LS posters I will (naturally) continue to post from my personal perspective. If you and some other LS posters don't happen to see it that way, you're of course entitled to your personal perspectives. There would be little point in a board like this if everyone felt the same way about everything would there.

Edited August 2, 2021 by mark clemson

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Unless someone (anyone! Friend, family, lover, colleague…) actually asked about the venue, the only reason to send the link would be to gloat, to boast, to make the other person jealous.

I respectfully disagree with this PV. Among friends and equals there is such as thing as "shared happiness" and "feeling happy for others". You're probably right for SOME people; for others who are less manipulative, maybe it is a form of boasting in some way, but certainly not with the kind of intent you imply. It's sharing your happiness with others vicariously and (often, but no doubt not ALWAYS) sent with that spirit in mind.

By a similar logic one could claim that inviting friends to your wedding is primarily done to "rub it in their faces". Maybe some folks think this way, but certainly not everyone.

[Davina1]

10 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Unless someone (anyone! Friend, family, lover, colleague…) actually asked about the venue, the only reason to send the link would be to gloat, to boast, to make the other person jealous. 
 

Pre-pandemic, we used to go away from time to time. We live in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, and on the edge of two others, so there are loads of gorgeous places close by. When we have catch-ups with friends, we often chat about what each person / couple has been doing, etc - and we would never dream of flaunting our plans or past trips unless we’re specifically asked for details.
 

Mostly “we’ll be away for a couple of days in X” or “we’re just back from Y” suffices, unless they’re planning a getaway too and want recommendations. Otherwise, showing off about the gorgeous facilities just strikes me as a quick way to ensure you’re not asked over again in a hurry / you’re the colleague everyone avoids / you get a rep as someone who’s so insecure you need to show off all the time / etc. 
 

In a situation like this, it goes far beyond normal niceties of behaviour. This guy is trying to set up a competition between OW and BW, because he wants them fighting over him as some kind of prize. 🤮 On a scale of fragile egos, he’s so far out there that even Jeff Bezos’s phallic rocket couldn’t reach it. 

Prudence my friend agrees he is looking for an ego boost . 

 

6 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I agree with you basil. It’s often only when someone is presented with a hard truth that they can no longer excuse that they start to re-examine their relationship and consider the possibility of leaving…

Reading back on previous posts it seems like she is much more invested in this EA than he has been - he has clearly demonstrated that his wife is his priority and he will not leave. This communication is in keeping with other things he has said/done. 

Hopefully OP, your anger will help you to put this relationship in context and make a different decision for yourself. 

Bailey I think you are correct .  I have emailed to say I am going to be away now while he is . I’m not going anywhere special and will be just visiting extended family and friends . Said will be in contact when I get back . I doubt he is pleased . I don’t care . I kept him company last year while he sat at the pool and then I was dumped every afternoon and Eve while they went sight seeing and dinner .   Stupid.com

however i am doing good .  My contact is very low right now . 
 

[Davina1]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Perhaps, but the question isn't really how the OW feels, it's how well the MM understands how she feels, which is a different issue. Generally, I don't think a typical MM is going to have the level of awareness of what his OW might be thinking/feeling that a LS regular who reads this stuff all the time would.

OP read what I suggested and didn't agree - since she's closer to the situation than I am, I'll take her word for it. That's fine with me (and unfortunate for her, but c'est la vie).

Speaking more generally:

- Barring some reason to think this way, I'm not the sort of person to assume deliberate malice when simple lack of awareness will do just fine as an explanation.

- People generally, and men in particular are notorious for not being cued in emotionally to how their partner may be feeling. Lame valentine's gifts, missed anniversaries, "he never says he loves me" etc etc, are common enough to be cliche. That's ALL men, not just MMs. (And really all PEOPLE since women are perfectly capable of this too.)

- As per the above, expecting a romantic partner to always know how you're feeling is in fact unrealistic and furthermore one of the ways unnecessary friction gets generated in a relationship. Most human beings are simply not particularly good mind readers.

I think my views are, frankly, quite reasonable and rational ones. Like other LS posters I will (naturally) continue to post from my personal perspective. If you and some other LS posters don't happen to see it that way, you're of course entitled to your personal perspectives. There would be little point in a board like this if everyone felt the same way about everything would there.

Thanks mark . I did appreciate your views and said maybe that was the case bit I kind of felt in this instance he was trying to get a reaction .  If I had thought it out with out typing like a maniac it would of been better . 
I have told him before I don’t like to hear about his wife at all . 

I will admit I do think he should be a mind reader too and know what I am feeling 🙀.completely unreasonable of course lol 

 

 

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Davina1 said:

I will admit I do think he should be a mind reader too and know what I am feeling 🙀.completely unreasonable of course lol

True, but also quite common. I suspect most folks do this at some point in their relationships.

At any rate, his deliberately trying to get a rise out of you is mean (at best) and I agree with I think most above that in your case it should (at a minimum) give you pause about where all this is going, how emotionally healthy it is for you, etc.

[solostand]

On 8/1/2021 at 3:03 PM, BaileyB said:

Mark, how many OW on this site are supportive and want to hear details of their MM’s happy marriage? Few and far between. 

When I was embroiled in an affair with a MM, he portrayed his marriage as dead of neglect. He painted his wife as an annoyance. He described her in disparaging terms. He even told me he was plotting to kill her.

But then, I came across a photo on social media of the two of them, sweetly holding hands. I was enraged. At the wife of course because the affair had made me mentally ill, lol. How dare she hold his hand like that? Does she not know he hates her?

Good times, good times.