Here's a Doozie

[Dazedandconfused05]

2 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

The way she looked at C's 'member' in the hot tub hopefully tells you if it was her first time seeing it. 

HMOAB, thank you so much for your insight.  That's the thing though, the grin on her face to me was of recognition.  And immediately after, she starts massaging his shins with her toes.  She wasn't drunk at this point maybe a little tipsy, and she knew I could see this.  Just crazy.  So much is said about mind movies, these are the ones I have.  

[Bryanp]

All I can say is that if your wife drinks every day then things will continually get worse and not better.

[Dazedandconfused05]

9 hours ago, glows said:

I'd focus here on whether you want to stay in this marriage or not or divorce when the time comes (consult with your lawyer).

Spot on Glows.  My lawyer appt. is tomorrow.  He is a very good friend as I said above.  Nice to have an ally.  

[Wiseman2]

On 8/2/2021 at 11:03 PM, Dazedandconfused05 said:

 My wife is 60 and I’m 63.  

Start talking about retirement and retirement plans, Medicare plans, discuss downsizing now that your kids are grown, etc. Your wife may be a bit desperate for attention.

[Dazedandconfused05]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Start talking about retirement and retirement plans, Medicare plans, discuss downsizing now that your kids are grown, etc. Your wife may be a bit desperate for attention.

I'm kind of unusual in that regard.  I'm a sales rep for a highway construction company, I absolutely love my job and I'm good at it.  I'm going to work as long as I'm able, hopefully at least another 10 years.  I think retirement is over rated.  Wife gets plenty of attention.    

[pepperbird2]

maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's acceptable to go around grabbing men's crotches, just like I don't think it's okay for a man to go around grabbing women in theirs. What the frig is wrong with this woman anyway?

op, you have every right to set the parameters of what you will and won't accept in your relationship. You can't control your wife's behaviour, but you can control yours. You don't have to put up with her shenanigans.

[glows]

I don't understand the invitation of those two into your home. Considering the trust is a bit marred or broken between the both of you and there's tension in the marriage, it's trouble bringing in another couple like that especially one with known proclivities. I don't share well so this wouldn't have gone over well with me if I even so much as sniffed an ounce of it. I'm glad you're speaking with a lawyer soon.

[Dazedandconfused05]

24 minutes ago, glows said:

I don't understand the invitation of those two into your home.

I've been going on golf trips with B for years.  We usually take 3-4 every year.  Lately when we have a trip planned, B&C will ride down to our house, B and I will go off on our golf trip, and C and my wife will hang out for the weekend.  I will say that C is a very good decorator and she helps wife with decorating.  And we've had some good times together, its just these last few years that has gotten weird.  

[Dazedandconfused05]

37 minutes ago, glows said:

I don't share well

Glows would you mind expanding of some of the problems you've had?  

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, Dazedandconfused05 said:

HMOAB, thank you so much for your insight.  That's the thing though, the grin on her face to me was of recognition.  And immediately after, she starts massaging his shins with her toes.  She wasn't drunk at this point maybe a little tipsy, and she knew I could see this.  Just crazy.  So much is said about mind movies, these are the ones I have.  

I think our brains are a pretty powerful piece of machinery and I'm not a fan of trying to talk people out of their feelings, intuitions, or observations. I don't think we get everything right 100% of the time, but often there is something there unless we've been professionally diagnosed as psychotically delusional (pretty rare/small % of the population fall into such category). As some say, where there is smoke there is fire. 

I'm also not a fan of regularly using the excuse of being under the influence of alcohol as an ongoing excuse. Certainly it lower's a person's inhibitions, but if it's a regularly occurring thing, then there are bigger problems involved such as alcohol addiction. To me, addictive behaviors point to poor self-regulation and poor self-control, which can spill over to other areas (like cheating or acting on impulse rather than intelligence).

I don't intend to push on a sore spot, but have you been a pushover in the past?  The fact that your wife is trying this stuff right in front of you makes me think she believes there will be no consequences if she crosses your boundaries.  Also, daughters expecting you to get over it or stuff your feelings might indicate trying to put you back in your place, so to speak. For example, if they are used to you acquiescing in the past they may be pushing you to repeat that pattern to keep the peace or a familiar family dynamic. People don't like change so they'd rather push the status quo than disrupt their comfort even if it's toxic or hurtful. Does this describe your daughters in this situation?

I'm pointing it out in case it helps you get perspective. Then you could use a new perspective to make positive changes.  

[Dazedandconfused05]

11 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

I don't intend to push on a sore spot, but have you been a pushover in the past? 

Well is a double edged sword with my daughters.  You want so desperately to maintain a good relationship with them that you put up with just about anything.  As far as the wife, I would say I probably have been a pushover. But its not like I haven't raised my concerns each and every time.  But......that's over.  I'm standing up for myself, if you don't stand up for yourself, who will?  

[spiderowl]

It is possible that you have reached that stage in marriage of overfamiliarity where people get bored with each others' idiosyncrasies and anxieties.  That does amount to not taking each other seriously.  It could be that your wife is bored with your jealousies (as she sees it) over the years and has now reached the point of not caring to reassure you.  She may think it's a trait and there is nothing she can do to reassure you anyway so puts in a token denial and forgets about it.

However, you are not seeing it the same way at all and her lack of worry about this is adding to your insecurity (and anyone would feel insecure in this situation).

I am guessing that the couple you spend time with do have an open marriage type arrangement and are more 'in your face' about that kind of thing than most people.  Some people can tolerate that, some enjoy it, others find it weird.  As your wife has put up with them and you like the guy friend, it's awkward.  I would advise not hanging out with them but how would that go down with your wife?  It sounds like you would tolerate C more than her partner, maybe because she's a woman and therefore not so much of a threat to you?

It is possible that your wife does not go along with these friends' overly sexual way of being but laughs at it and ignores it.  She may find it amusing but not participate herself.  She may think you should do likewise, just dismiss it and laugh it off.  She is seriously misjudging you if she thinks you are likely to do this.  If that is her attitude though, then I would imagine she has told her daughters you are being overly sensitive and that she's not having a affair.  This may be why they are rejecting your interpretation of events.

I suppose the question is, does your wife still love you, despite all that has gone on between you?  Is it possible for her to be dismissive of your feelings and still love you?  I think it is, especially if you do tend to interpret what she does as joining in with them rather than just tolerating them.  However, it does indicate that there is a lack of respect there for you.  If you have a partner that is overly jealous, misinterprets things as being you joining in and enjoying rather than just laughing things off, then you are stuck really.  What do you do?  Tell him he is misunderstanding?  Deny everything?  It sounds like that is what she has done in the past and it hasn't worked.  You do not believe her and you do not trust her.  She is now not even bothering to reassure you.

So, what's the truth?  We don't know.  You are convinced your wife is lying.  She is dismissive of your feelings, maybe because she thinks you are misinterpreting things.  Your daughters believe her more than you.  I can see this is a very difficult situation for you.  Despite it all, you don't want to give up on her because you love her.  If she truly is betraying you and gaslighting you, why would you still love her?  I know it is hard to throw away familiarity and security and that is what a family gives you.  However, if you truly believe she is betraying you, can you really stay in that situation?

It seems to me the time has come for you to respect yourself and separate from your wife.  You seem to have decided you have had enough but are unsure what to do next.  I would suggest the way forward is for you to ask your wife to go to marital counselling with you.  This would be a way of determining how each of you see things, with an independent person to interpret both your feelings.  If either of you will not consider marital counselling, then the marriage is clearly over.  It means one of you will not put in the effort to get to the bottom of these unhappy feelings.

Edited August 4, 2021 by spiderowl

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, Dazedandconfused05 said:

Well is a double edged sword with my daughters.  You want so desperately to maintain a good relationship with them that you put up with just about anything.  As far as the wife, I would say I probably have been a pushover. But its not like I haven't raised my concerns each and every time.  But......that's over.  I'm standing up for myself, if you don't stand up for yourself, who will?  

I can't fault anyone for wanting a good relationship with their adult children. I hope you'll find some constructive ways to set boundaries with them while at the same time garnering more support from them than you are now getting. Therapy is a great place to explore this. 

As I'm sure you know, it is one thing to consistently raise concerns and another to demonstrate you are willing to back them up through action. The latter is not so easy especially if you've already established a pattern to the contrary, but of course it can be done. I applaud your effort on moving in that direction. I hate to sound like a parrot, but this is another good area a therapist can help with. 

It's something I've had to work on as previously I didn't have a clear idea of what that looked like without ending the relationship altogether. My therapist was incredibly valuable in giving me feedback and ideas for specific situations and people. It's great to have such a professional in your corner to either validate your thoughts or guide you in a different direction when needed. If you're not seeing a therapist, I hope you soon will. 

These days therapy is much easier to access through online meeting applications, which should make it easier while you are on the road for work. 

[basil67]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:03 PM, Dazedandconfused05 said:

Then B walks up, he didn’t bring his trunks, and I say dude go get a pair in my closet.  He says no I got something.  He comes back with a pair of stretch underwear 2 sizes too small.  You can see every detail if by you know what I mean.  He spreads his legs out and eases his package down in the water about 4 feet from my wife’s face.  And my wife has a look on her face that I’ll never forget.  She’s looking and smiling.  I am freaking out at this point.  Next my wife extends her legs and begins massaging Bs shins.  I back out of the hot tub and then go in the house visibly upset.

Given that B initiated this event with your wife, I take it that you will no longer be playing golf with him.   And as you've never liked his wife anyway, this latest event should give you a perfect opportunity to remove them both from your life.   Would this solve a lot of the problems?  

[Dazedandconfused05]

17 hours ago, basil67 said:

Would this solve a lot of the problems?  

Absolutely hitting the delete button on B and C.  I saw my attorney this morning.  He advised me on how to move forward when I'm ready.  

[Dazedandconfused05]

On 8/4/2021 at 1:59 PM, HadMeOverABarrel said:

These days therapy is much easier to access through online meeting applications, which should make it easier while you are on the road for work. 

I have an agreement with youngest daughter to get therapy when this is all over.  Something happened last night that was interesting.  Many of you know about my wife’s EA with the pilot 4 years ago.  She sent him a DNC message at the end of it.  Well unbeknownst to me, my youngest has been monitoring wife’s text messages since then.   Out of the blue the past Sunday night, wife receives one random text from the pilot talking about friends that came to visit.  No comments after or before.  We can’t figure this one out. 

[justbrowsing85]

OP - sorry you find yourself in this situation.  If you have to spend so much mental energy to monitor your wife, decipher her intentions with regards to your marriage, I don't know if it is worth to continue with your her.  

Best of luck.  

[HadMeOverABarrel]

What are you prepared to do if you learn your wife is back to cheating?

Why wait for therapy? I think therapy now will give you much needed perspective to help you move in the direction that is best for yourself. Therapist can be a great sounding board, plus adds years of observing the intimate details of others who have been in your situation. Good insight to be had there for you. 

[Dazedandconfused05]

47 minutes ago, justbrowsing85 said:

OP - sorry you find yourself in this situation.  If you have to spend so much mental energy to monitor your wife, decipher her intentions with regards to your marriage, I don't know if it is worth to continue with your her.  

Best of luck.  

Absolutely agree.  Thank You  

[Dazedandconfused05]

46 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

What are you prepared to do if you learn your wife is back to cheating?

Why wait for therapy? I think therapy now will give you much needed perspective to help you move in the direction that is best for yourself. Therapist can be a great sounding board, plus adds years of observing the intimate details of others who have been in your situation. Good insight to be had there for you. 

No I mean after the divorce.  The divorce is happening.   I can't get it out of my head that she may have been having sex with the pilot and doing the threesome with C&B.  I'm having some crazy thoughts right now.  👀

[HadMeOverABarrel]

5 hours ago, Dazedandconfused05 said:

No I mean after the divorce.  The divorce is happening.   I can't get it out of my head that she may have been having sex with the pilot and doing the threesome with C&B.  I'm having some crazy thoughts right now.  👀

Aww. Well sorry to hear you are suffering. I guess you made up your mind to exit marriage. I still say a counselor could help you cope as you move through it but you have to do what is right for you. Keep posting for support. 

[Dazedandconfused05]

18 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Keep posting for support. 

Thank you.  So many here have been through what I'm going through.  

[basil67]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:45 AM, Dazedandconfused05 said:

I have an agreement with youngest daughter to get therapy when this is all over.  Something happened last night that was interesting.  Many of you know about my wife’s EA with the pilot 4 years ago.  She sent him a DNC message at the end of it.  Well unbeknownst to me, my youngest has been monitoring wife’s text messages since then.   Out of the blue the past Sunday night, wife receives one random text from the pilot talking about friends that came to visit.  No comments after or before.  We can’t figure this one out. 

Your children's involvement in this is completely inappropriate.  How did your youngest find out about the EA?   And in what kind of world is it OK for one to monitor the messages of another?    Your wife needs to know that her messages are being spied on by your daughter. 

 

[Dazedandconfused05]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:12 PM, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Also, daughters expecting you to get over it or stuff your feelings might indicate trying to put you back in your place, so to speak. For example, if they are used to you acquiescing in the past they may be pushing you to repeat that pattern to keep the peace or a familiar family dynamic. People don't like change so they'd rather push the status quo than disrupt their comfort even if it's toxic or hurtful. Does this describe your daughters in this situation?

Absolutely.  

[Warpspeed170]

Me? I would suggest a PI to get the evidence.  [ ] 

Edited August 9, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
doesnt address first post