Housewife duties/chores

[SoulCat]

44 minutes ago, calmingdays said:

I know we're not partners. Im not afraid of him, i would say im wary of him after a promise he made me years ago. Ive not told him no since. 

 

What promise did he make you?

[calmingdays]

@SoulCati dont really want to go into it. Just something that's made me wary of him over the years.

Edited August 6, 2021 by calmingdays

[Lotsgoingon]

OP, don't run from the confusion. Life is full of confusion. Important transitions, moments when a new perspective comes into view, can be hugely confusing and disorienting.

That's OK. Even if you feel bad after hearing what we say here, don't shame yourself for that! Taking in new perspectives is extremely hard. And it's not just an intellectual process. Taking in new ideas can create emotional upheaval. And what we're saying here (most of us it seems) has to be disorienting to you. We are saying that your husband needs to respect you more and expect LESS work from you and give you more praise and support for what you are doing. And we think you need to feel LESS guilt, maybe no guilt for not meeting his standards. We think his standards are unrealistic, going back to the 1950s or so. 

If my beloved mother could talk to you, she would say even in the 1950s, she felt something wasn't quite right and fair about her husband (my father) having more power in the relationship. She didn't know how to put her feelings into words. But over time, she did. And she fought to claim more power in her marriage, and she got a ton happier. She was inspired by hearing the stories of other women and inspired by the gains and demands of the women's movement. My mother told me the first time she tried to open her own bank account, the bank printed the checks with her name--AND my father's name (and might have had my father's name first!)  She returned to the bank to say, "No, this is my account only." They had to print the checks again. 

Anyway, my mother understood that some women seemingly accept impossible expectations, but she thought that was because of actions like the bank action in refusing at first to give her her own account. 

There is definitely gender bias in your husband's attitude and expectations. I don't think you can escape the pain of these unequal expectations. They are almost designed to keep you doubting yourself. I don't know if you have any daughters, but do you want your daughters to grow up and get into a relationship where they work hard and work constantly and get no credit, only get criticized and then end up doubting themselves all along? Do you want that for a daughter? I assume you want more for her. And it's OK to want more for yourself. 

 

[SoulCat]

2 minutes ago, calmingdays said:

@SoulCati dont really want to go into it. Just something that's made me wary of him over the years.

This is not normal. I'm guessing it was more of a threat than a promise. With a nasty outcome for you and only you.

Your husband is an abusive, controlling man and you have endured his behaviour, judgement, scorn and emotional punishment for so long, you do not see or realise that  your marriage is a dysfunctional, toxic quagmire.

The whole cleaning thing is just a symptom of much, much deeper issues present in your marriage and your life. I'd suggest you'd get yourself a good therapist to gain back your self esteem, some independence and a healthier approach to relationships.

[Crazelnut]

Let me guess. He "promised" to hurt you or the kids if you ever leave him. Am I right?

[calmingdays]

More like he would take them from me

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, calmingdays said:

More like he would take them from me

A man who threatens the mother of his children in this way is not a good man.

I understand why you are scared of him now, trying to meet his expectations and keep the peace. Don’t rock the boat, lest he follow through on his threat. 

Rather than trying to renegotiate the division of labour - would he be open to you getting a part time job and hiring a cleaner? This would give you more social contact, you would be less isolated. It could give you some money and something on your resume which would be very beneficial should you ever decide to leave this marriage. It gives you some options, makes you a little less vulnerable. Something to think about - your children will both be in school soon. You have the time and the education. 
 

Edited August 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, calmingdays said:

More like he would take them from me

You realize that he has no legal right to do that, I hope. If you were to divorce, you have a legal right to shared custody. You don’t need to demonstrate that you are a good mother, you don’t need to have money or a job - you have a right to shared custody and he would pay you spousal and child support. 

[ASG]

31 minutes ago, calmingdays said:

More like he would take them from me

I'm sorry he said that to you. 

 

 

But it just proves our point that he is abusive and that your marriage is toxic. 

 

Abuse is not just physical. Emotional abuse is also abuse. And he definitely does that to you. 

 

It's not easy to see it and identify it when you've been in it for so long, but hopefully you will start to see it now. 

 

I hope you manage to make things better with him, and would definitely suggest you find a therapist to talk through some of these thi gs. 

[BaileyB]

Kindly calmingdays, men say this to women to gain their submission. This statement is made to threaten and intimidate - he knows this is your greatest fear and he was willing to use this information to gain your submission. 

You are not the first woman on this board to say this, and you won’t be the last. We just don’t want you to think that there is any truth in this statement. Not saying you will divorce, but if you ever were to divorce you would have a custody agreement just like every other couple who decides to divorce…

[calmingdays]

I know deep down he couldn't completely take them from me but he would make it hell. Custody would be split 50/50 and i couldnt leave my children half the week. Its not like he hits me and stuff. I can deal with it. I was only looking for advice on managing time and getting things done. I dont want to google anything. Im listening to everything people have said, ive re read this entire post countless times today. I understand what people are saying. He promised once the kids were both in school i could go back to work part time. He always keeps his promises. That's why i know he would do whay he said about taking them and i would have a fight to get them back. 

[Crazelnut]

Bottom line: your husband is emotionally abusive. Whoever used the word "tyrant" was 100% correct.  Are you ok with being in a toxic marriage? Are you ok with him being abusive? 

(What kind of jerk threatens to take kids away from their own mother?! Or gives their *wife* daily chores like she was a  10 year old?  Or gets angry and punishes their wife if he doesn't get his way? Or worse yet, tells his wife that all this is HER fault?!)

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, calmingdays said:

 He promised once the kids were both in school i could go back to work part time. He always keeps his promises.

At the moment he controls you almost completely, and has done since you gave up work, he may not want to give up that control

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

At the moment he controls you almost completely, and has done since you gave up work, he may not want to give up that control

I agree. I will be surprised if he agrees when you tell him you would like to go back to work. It can be very threatening to a man like your husband who is used to having complete control. Quite suddenly - she has her own money and other social connections. With those things come more knowledge and more options. It’s much safer to keep her at home, where she is isolated from others and busy with her list of chores…

Edited August 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[calmingdays]

He will let me work again. He promised. He has never broken a promise since the day we got married. He doesnt make them easily

[ASG]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's illegal and impossible and you know that. Are you in a culture where women have no rights to children and are expected to be servants or be punished?

He's a classic abuser and you seem to not want to believe that. Perhaps in you're culture/country/religion is isn't? 

Why ask vague questions about how early to get up to complete tasks when you could just as easily google "abusive relationships" and "custody and child support after divorce" in your jurisdiction?

Why go on and on about what housecleaning procedures you have when you are apparently concerned about other things?

No one  is "insulting you" here. You are insulting people spending their time on your problem that you refuse to resolve on your own, then acting huffy. 

The OP is in the UK. He's definitely an abuser where she is! 

But she married at 20 and didn't know any better and still doesn't. 

 

@calmingdaysyour youngest will be going to school in a year. ONE YEAR. It is time to start having those conversations with your husband, because jobs are not something you come across in a second. 

I'd venture that he will need some time to get used to the idea, even if he "promised". Because that was years ago, and now he may not be so amenable. He probably did it to apease you and will go back on it. 

Someone who behaves the way he does isn't likely to want you meeting new people and earning you own money. 

 

As a side question... do you have any social life outside of your marriage? Any friends you hang out with or even speak to, that he's not a part of?

[basil67]

@calmingdays I want to reach out and say that I understand your fear of him taking the children.  Others have pointed out that it's not legal, but we all know it's not at all uncommon for partners to leave with the children and go into hiding or refuse contact.   Or worse!  Sometimes this is done by an abusive partner as a method of control, or sometimes it's done by someone being abused and taking themselves and their children to safety.   Or simply after an acrimonious separation where partners use the kids as weapons.  I'm not suggesting that you should tolerate a bad situation because of fear of losing the kids, but it is definitely part of the equation for how you manage this.

Given that you feel you need his permission to do less domestic work and are scared of him taking the kids, I agree with others who've said you're in a situation of domestic abuse.  Abuse doesn't need to involve violence - it can also be done with control. 

I want to ask a couple of more questions.  I'm not coming down on you, but looking for clarity: 

Do you have any kind of social life?  Like mums from playgroup/school, catching up with old school friends, seeing your family? 

And if you didn't feel like sex, what would happen if you said that you were not interested? 

[ShyViolet]

7 hours ago, calmingdays said:

@SoulCati dont really want to go into it. Just something that's made me wary of him over the years.

Stop calling it a "promise", that's not accurate.  It was a threat.  You are in an ABUSIVE marriage.  It doesn't have to involve physical hitting to be abusive.

[BaileyB]

You very much need to give him time to adjust to the idea that you want to go back to work. And, don’t be surprised if he gives you pushback and attempts to go back on that “promise”… or in fact, begins to make more threatening statements in an attempt to keep the status quo. 
 

I’m curious - if you are hesitant to have the conversation with him about doing a little less cleaning/making changes to the list - how are you even going to begin to tell him that you want to work outside the home? That, to me, would seem like a much more difficult conversation to have with the man. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[calmingdays]

Hes not a bad as people think. He might be hard to live with. But he does good things too. I speak to my mother on the phone every few days and i have my best friend from university that i talk with online. I dont say no to it so it doesnt matter. 

I feel more at ease talking to him about working because he promised he would let me. Im not comfortable talking to him about the chores because the deal was i stay home and do it all, so its my job, my fault that i cant do it all.. so i will be breaking my end of our deal and he doesnt like that.

[basil67]

Nah, he really is as bad as we think.  

Yes,  it's true that you didn't say No. And you did agree to do it all, but did you truly know the extremes of domestic work that you'd be agreeing to?  When I agreed to do the chores as a SAHM, there's not a chance on earth that he would have expected of me what your husband expects of you and no way would he have given me a list.  And if he had, I would have assumed he was joking and put it in the trash.

Taking it further, if you'd said No, would he have listened to you?   And do you know that you have the right to change your mind or set a boundary?

Out of curiosity, if your husband's boss gives him too much work, does he say that it's his fault that he can't do it all?  Or does he say that his boss is too demanding? 

 

[calmingdays]

I didnt know how much work would be involved, but i dont think wife/mother really knows how much work life is once children are born. Honestly i dont really know what he would say about work, he doesnt talk about it. So i have no clue what he does on a daily basis. 

[basil67]

Yes, children add work to our lives, but with the exception of washing clothes and tidying, they don't add a whole lot of cleaning to our schedule.  Sure, if you've got little boys, you will have to spot clean more often around the toilet, but they don't make extra dusting and nor do they bring a need for cleaning closets.   And who cares if there's a few fingerprints on the windows?!     

Did you keep house before you were married?   Like sharing with a room mate in college?  Or even seeing how much work your mother did?   Surely you would have some idea that what you're doing now is not "normal"

[calmingdays]

We have a little boy and a girl. I stayed at home throughout university, so ive never lived alone, my mum cleaned a bit more than normal, i helped her usually. Me and my husband moved in together just after we got married, we did move pretty quickly at the start of our relationship, bit of a whirlwind id say. It wasnt always like this, when i worked part time after we got married and i finished my degree it was great. 

[ShyViolet]

You keep talking about what he may "let" you do and not "let" you do.  That alone is ridiculous and dysfunctional.  You sound like a child and he's your father.  A marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not one spouse treating the other like a child and telling them what they are allowed and not allowed to do.  It's sad that you go along with this.  Your marriage doesn't even sound like it's from the 1950's, more like the 1850's or 1750's.