What just happened? I need your views.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 minute ago, heartwhole2 said:

I agree that he hasn't told BW too much because he doesn't want to scare her off.

Exactly. I do not believe he will tell her more. He insists they can´t talk, like really talk.

[heartwhole2]

2 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I believe he kept it general and a bit ambiguous. My gut feeling is she had no clue.

Friend, I think you're projecting here. Remember I said to be prepared for your brain to try to scramble everything today to make you feel better about yesterday. If you had a clear understanding of what yesterday was all about, you wouldn't be here seeking perspectives. MM isn't being direct with you and you don't feel you can ask what you really want to ask. Or you ask, and he gives vague, non-commital answers.

[Iwantthisformyself]

11 hours ago, mark clemson said:

FWIW, I agree with what I think is the general consensus that this is a "hide in plain sight" type move. You didn't really get thrown under the bus IMO unless you were going into this with unrealistic expectations to begin with. It sounded to me like you weren't (or perhaps you were conflicted).

There seemed to be tacit acknowledgement from the W that there was something between you and MM, AND that you were going to be hanging around. That's how I'd interpret the third comment. Not necessarily "placing" you into the only friend category, nor giving permission for you to be with her husband (certainly that would be a big ask), but something in between those two.

Possibly she is ok with "connection" so long as he doesn't actually screw you - a bit hard to say. Some men seem to think this way, from what I read here it's rarer with women.

Seems like you could follow up with him for clarification on "status" if you feel the need to. My thought is he wants to continue the affair as an affair and primarily as "connection"/an EA. But like everyone here I'm an external observer and only seeing your posts.

Frankly this could have gone a lot worse. I was more than half expecting a "blowup" of some kind. Possibly his wife is ok with "looking the other way" while you and he have whatever between you, but that is still a ways from being confirmed here IMO.

I do not think he planned this to hide me in plain sight purposefully. He seems to be ambivalent about the whole thing(guitl) and tried to move the pieces a little bit, revealing as little info as possible to her to have a hint that something is going on, and then see where the pieces fall. I guess the same goes for me. There is an opportinity for me to take thehint that we could be just friends ( even though we do have feelings for each othe) and let things develo and see where our pieces fall... I have herad him say things happen if they must, so I guess this is his bet here.

[Iwantthisformyself]

14 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

It seems like a normal thing for a wife in this weird situation to do, honestly 

Also, and I cannot stress this enough - even though she acknowledged problems in the marriage, problems in a marriage 1) don’t mean they are divorcing 2) don’t mean he’s in love with you 3) even if they do divorce, he may not choose you as his next partner. You are zooming from point A to point Z. Please be kind to yourself because I’m worried you are going to suffer unnecessarily when things don’t go the way you planned.

Fair enough. But this does not take away my agency completely in the whole situation.

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

You can´t turn off people´s feelings and diffuse a situation like ours at the snap of your fingers.

And yet, it sounds like that is exactly what they did yesterday. They clearly put you in the friend category. The couple friend category. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

13 hours ago, stillafool said:

She was under the impression that you two are "just friends" because he told her that.  If you are irritated at anyone it should be him for not making it clear to his wife in front of you that he is your boyfriend.  He just treated you like a random co worker who he felt sorry for and included you  and your kids in their outing.

We,, I didn´t epect him to tell her he´s my boyfriend. But he did not treat me like a random co worker. And from the way she treated me, I guess she must have heard good things about me.

[BaileyB]

1 minute ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

But this does not take away my agency completely in the whole situation.

What’s your next step? How do you plan to pursue this man now?

[heartwhole2]

2 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Exactly. I do not believe he will tell her more. He insists they can´t talk, like really talk.

In the book Not Just Friends there's this metaphor about windows and walls. Basically the idea is that when an affair happens, it shuts out the betrayed partner. The affair partner knows more of the truth than the betrayed partner. I think you started in this position.

But now it seems like they're making a concerted effort to share things and be on the same side. By default, this shuts you out. Don't you feel a little shut out?

 

1 minute ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Fair enough. But this does not take away my agency completely in the whole situation.

Good, let's focus on this. What are your options going forward, assuming nothing will change on MM's end?

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He seems to be ambivalent about the whole thing(guitl) and tried to move the pieces a little bit, revealing as little info as possible to her to have a hint that something is going on, and then see where the pieces fall.

He wasn’t ambivalent, he aligned himself with his wife and together, they established some boundaries. They were kind, respectful, but firm.

This was not an opportunity to drop a hint for her as much as they were dropping a hint to you - they are together, they talk to each other, and they consider you now - a friend of the family. Did you get the hint?

[Iwantthisformyself]

12 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I think the OP should be commended for being honest on here.  She is not seeing things how many of us see them but that is why people come here, for different perspectives.  

I get the impression that, in real life, you do pick up on feelings, OP.   You sum things up very well and the significant things of a meeting, conversation are there.  Unfortunately, people get involved in extra-marital relationships, whether by their own instigation or by chance meeting, and then both can be truly torn.  I think you have been picking up on this. It is easy to go from knowing the other person feels something for you to building it into more.

I suppose the important thing is where will this take you?  What are the chances this will work out to your liking?  MM often give up their mistresses if they have to choose.  Of course, those MM will be unlikely to let the W know they are 'choosing/have chosen' because if they did she would probably dump him forthwith.  He will do it quietly, edging the OW out of his main sphere of life, if he feels it has come to crunch time.

I get the feeling this MM is like that. He enjoys time with you, has felt tempted, but at the end of the day he won't risk his marriage. He might foolishly end up risking it, if he underestimates his W, but it will be by accident or 'Freudian slip'.

I am sorry you ended up in this really because you've clearly been hurt and know what that feels like.  Lots of OW fall in love and end up believing their MM puts them first - or would do if it wasn't for their W who they can't leave for a variety of plausible-sounding reasons.  Sadly, a lot of OW are let down.

I guess this was the first real connection you have felt in a long time.  A connection feels so rare and so important.  It is something we starve for.  You could find that connection elsewhere.  You will find it elsewhere.  Such a connection is not only possible with MM, which may be what you think at the moment.  You don't have to grasp onto this one seeming opportunity for the closeness and intimacy you have missed.  There will be others, hopefully not married.

I would caution you to avoid MMen, however sweet and interested they seem.  They often come across as fun, more relaxed, more interested, than single men.  Single men come across as more sex-orientated and less concerned with love, romance and manners - this is because sex has become their focus and priority while being alone. It's a shame but it puts women off and I think this is why women are often drawn to MM and then let down badly.  A MM is only ever going to be half there and the rest of the time you will be waiting and wondering what the hell is going on.  You need someone who is free to be with you wholeheartedly, someone for yourself.

Thank you for understanding something everyone else seems to be missing! The black and white comments sometimes miss the target, but I consider them anyway because I need stimulation to consider all perspectives in this complex situation. But I definitely have good hunches when it comes to feelings, and I usually base my decisions on these "intangibles" of the situation. There is a lot of thuth there, actually. More than words can express.

Of course he enjoys time with me, and clearly the idea of being in a relationship with me is temting: he has been starved of affection for so long, and this has invigorated his desire to live! It ceratinly is the first connection I have felt in a very long time, and that is the case for him as well

I couldn´t agree more with your comment about single men: making everything about sex is so... clumsy! I cannot relate to that. I can´t feel anything in a relatioship like that. I need more complexity to find a man interesting.

When we started I did not even know his marriage was ending, and that was fine. I do not expect him to leave his wife for me. I just expect him to be with me, and connect with me. He can carry on with his marriage for whatever reasosn he sees fit. If I know his heart is with me, that is enough for me.

[ExpatInItaly]

So what do you intend to do now, OP?

Wait around and hope he messages you again? 

[heartwhole2]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

He wasn’t ambivalent, he aligned himself with his wife and together, they established some boundaries. They were kind, respectful, but firm.

This was not an opportunity to drop a hint for her as much as they were dropping a hint to you - they are together, they talk to each other, and they consider you now - a friend of the family. Did you get the hint?

Yes, the wife's comment about being glad that he has a friend like you . . . it means they discussed what to do about you. She decided she's a big enough person to allow him to keep this friendship, since he doesn't have many, but she expects to be part of the friendship. Once it's no longer between you and MM, it's no longer a secret, romantic bubble.

[Iwantthisformyself]

So, this is what happened...

Yesterday night I got a message from him, asking me how I felt about our meeting. I answered I was ok, things developed far better than I expected.

Then he sent me this quote:

"Present fears are less than horrible imaginings"

I guess this just about sums up what his intentions behind this meeting were regarding his wife.

I told him I had missed spending time with him... so we arranged for him to come to my place this afternoon. My kids will be visiting their dad, and we will have the whole afternoon for ourselves.

Many of your questions regarding all the ambiguous elements of the situation have been on my mind... I guess it is time we disambiguate some things....

[ExpatInItaly]

You might have missed this question before, but how old is his child, OP?

[Iwantthisformyself]

He´s 10

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I believe he kept it general and a bit ambiguous. My gut feeling is she had no clue.

She was defending her position.
Telling you to back off and putting you firmly into the friendship slot.
This was a message to both.
 But to him, "You can keep this friend as long as she is a friend to us both, not just you."
She will now be watching him like a hawk...
She has her young son to consider here, giving away her husband to some random co worker is NOT an option.

I am still of the opinion he does not want you.
A guy who wants you, just wants you, he does not put his wife in a position where she can get the upper hand, like what happened here..
That is unheard of.
This guy was hiding behind his wife. He was relying on her to put a spanner in your works.

[ExpatInItaly]

19 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He can carry on with his marriage for whatever reasosn he sees fit. If I know his heart is with me, that is enough for me.

Yeah, that will wear off fast. 

You're too intense for it not to. 

[mimic2021]

28 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

We,, I didn´t epect him to tell her he´s my boyfriend. But he did not treat me like a random co worker. And from the way she treated me, I guess she must have heard good things about me.

But where did he say he’s your boyfriend?

[stillafool]

37 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

We,, I didn´t epect him to tell her he´s my boyfriend. But he did not treat me like a random co worker. And from the way she treated me, I guess she must have heard good things about me.

Didn't you ask MM beforehand what this meeting was about and what information would be revealed to his wife?  Before you were pretty sure what was going to happen and none of it did.  

On 8/13/2021 at 3:25 PM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I am considering meeting her, because this is what he wants. He needs my help landing his marriage safely before he can end it in better terms than "I´m leaving because I fell in love ith someone else".  I believe I can give him that.

If this were the case why didn't he even mention it to her.  He isn't trying to leave her but you.

On 8/13/2021 at 3:26 PM, Iwantthisformyself said:

It kind of did, but it is not accurate. He hasn´t chosen his wife. He has chosen to end his marriage as amicably as possible and he needs my help doing that.

So how did you help him here when the wife has no clue HE has chosen to end the marriage.  He left with her for God's sake.

On 8/13/2021 at 3:34 PM, Iwantthisformyself said:

. I just wish she did not meka the same mistake I made: try to save a marriage that was already dead, stay and humilliate herself, and not accept that when it is over it is over. I wish she could get the hint that when your man is in love with someone else, it is over, and move on. For her sake as much as for ours. 

 

Well as you can see the only one who needs to take a hint is you.  He is doing everything possible to gain trust from his wife because he's going to stay with her.   Did you ask him why he didn't mention to his wife that you two are together?

Edited August 15, 2021 by stillafool

[elaine567]

Who leaves their wife and 10 yo son for some woman he has known for a matter of weeks...?
A woman he is not even sleeping with...
 

Edited August 15, 2021 by elaine567

[stillafool]

42 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

We,, I didn´t epect him to tell her he´s my boyfriend. But he did not treat me like a random co worker. And from the way she treated me, I guess she must have heard good things about me.

Yes she has enough class to treat you with kindness.  She knows what she's doing.

[RebeccaR]

38 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I told him I had missed spending time with him... so we arranged for him to come to my place this afternoon. My kids will be visiting their dad, and we will have the whole afternoon for ourselves.

Maybe this couple is indeed open to some sort of open marriage sitch - I can’t imagine he won’t tell her where he’s going, not after yesterday 

[RebeccaR]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Who leaves their wife and 10 yo son for some woman he has known for a matter of weeks...?

Disabled son. I can’t see it either.

[elaine567]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes she has enough class to treat you with kindness.  She knows what she's doing.

Maybe not the first "waif and stray" he has developed an attraction to and brought to her attention...
She thus knows how to handle it.

[heartwhole2]

Just now, RebeccaR said:

Maybe this couple is indeed open to some sort of open marriage sitch - I can’t imagine he won’t tell her where he’s going, not after yesterday 

I thought that was a possibility earlier but now I think MM has deluded himself into thinking he can have it all . . . a marriage and sexual intimacy with his wife, and a nice friendship that makes him feel wanted with the OW he's begun to lean on.