What just happened? I need your views.

[heartwhole2]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Who leaves their wife and 10 yo son for some woman he has known for a matter of weeks...?
A woman he is not even sleeping with...
 

They've known each other more than a few weeks. That's just how long it's been since she propositioned him.

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Maybe this couple is indeed open to some sort of open marriage sitch - I can’t imagine he won’t tell her where he’s going, not after yesterday 

If they have an open marriage then why wasn't it mentioned at the meet?
Why has he never brought it up to the OP?

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

They've known each other more than a few weeks. That's just how long it's been since she propositioned him.

Yes but only a few weeks since they started getting closer...

[heartwhole2]

OP, here's my prediction for your time with MM today:

He will express how much he wishes that you could have more together. He'll be wistful and endearing. But he won't make any concrete promises or cross any hard lines into PA territory. He'll describe how great it would be if you could be together. This is now strictly a supportive friendship, which honestly is what you had before you confessed your feelings to him.

When you ask about BW he'll be vague. He'll be trying not to disrespect her by talking about her. He'll make it sound like they don't have what you two have without giving specifics.

It will feel nice when he looks in your eyes and validates your connection. But that's as much as you're going to get as his marriage-approved buddy.

[BaileyB]

I have no doubt that you will come back and try to convince us all that yesterday went according to plan, that you knew when he looked into your eyes today and whispered some kind of vague nonsense that you will be together if only you give him time… 

[stillafool]

10 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I have no doubt that you will come back and try to convince us all that yesterday went according to plan, that you knew when he looked into your eyes today and whispered some kind of vague nonsense that you will be together if only you give him time… 

Yes but the truth is absolutely nothing happened during that meeting that OP described to us was going to happen.  Yet she comes away blaming the wife because the husband portrayed OP as just a friend as if it's the wife's fault.

[RebeccaR]

54 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

But he won't make any concrete promises or cross any hard lines into PA territory.

They already spent an afternoon making out on her couch - maybe he will pull back, but they are already there 

Edited August 15, 2021 by RebeccaR
typo

[RebeccaR]

16 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yet she comes away blaming the wife because the husband portrayed OP as just a friend as if it's the wife's fault.

Also, her theme is “why won’t she just give him up gracefully” (again blaming the wife). To be fair, we have seen that before with other OW.

[heartwhole2]

9 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yes but the truth is absolutely nothing happened during that meeting that OP described to us was going to happen.  Yet she comes away blaming the wife because the husband portrayed OP as just a friend as if it's the wife's fault.

Unfortunately, nothing extreme enough happened to loosen her grip on her fantasy either. As long as he keeps showing interest in her, she'll continue to force facts to fit her script.

I'm glad her goal is to disambiguate things today. Unfortunately I have my doubts that MM is going to give her that because he's not done with the marriage until he's done.

Having an ex who cheated and is generally a manipulative loser is awful; the OP didn't deserve that. Having a cheater who won't give up the OW is bad luck, to be at the far end of the bell curve of infidelity outcomes. Now OP has thrown her own hat into the infidelity ring, and she's landed at the opposite end of the spectrum: she has a rare MM who is willing to turn down sex and figure out his marriage before proceeding any further.

Of course, OP, hoping for infidelity to have a good outcome for you is a fool's errand. The outcomes are almost always painful, heart-breaking, embarrassing, life-altering, etc., the question, really, is the degree. I don't know why you're trying to build a solid foundation on quicksand. I don't understand why you're trying to have a private, romantic attachment with someone who doesn't want that.

[heartwhole2]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

They already spent an afternoon making out on her couch - maybe he will pull back, but they are already there 

Yeah, I know. No doubt that got rewritten as a "kiss on the cheek" or something to BW. Obviously if my husband were making out with someone I would consider that a PA, but MM seems to be trying to walk back where they've been. If OW isn't getting the point, well the awkwardness of meeting the wife should help.

[heartwhole2]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Also, her theme is “why won’t she just give him up gracefully” (again blaming the wife). To be fair, we have seen that before with other OW.

Yes, the fault lies in the structure of the love triangle, not in the one person who didn't enter it knowingly. I suppose that when the man you feel madly in love with tells you that of course he would choose you but family blah blah, your mind then thinks, "Ah, this problem will be solved when the BW relinquishes him." When the married person you're pursuing can't or won't give you what you want, it's not their spouse's fault.

[anika99]

15 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

Interesting that he told her that. Why would he tell her the reaction you shared with him, presumably in confidence?

It appears to me they met up with you to present a united front. He has probably told her everything about how you propositioned him. He may even have told her about the condoms - maybe they even cooked that up together.

One thing is for sure - anything you tell him, you should presume it will be getting back to her.

Interesting that some seem to think that the MM was trying to present a united front with his wife. That's not my take at all. I think the MM is just an Ahole who wants to stay married and carry on emotional affair with OW. He wants to keep his family as it is and get ego strokes and attention from the OW. The OW does not have the upper hand but neither does the BW. Right now the MM is the one controlling things by keeping both his wife and his OW in the dark with lies and manipulation. He has told his BW things about the OW but not everything just like he has told the OW things about the BW but not everything. He wants BW to think OW is just a harmless friend because he doesn't want to lose BW. He wants OW to think there is a possibility his marriage is going to end because he doesn't want to lose OW. He is playing a game of telling each woman what they want to hear so that he can reap all the benefits of having the attention of two women. 

He is not going to leave his wife. He is only infatuated with the OW but at his age he knows that infatuation is not love. Love in a long term marriage is different than the "love" people think they have during the infatuation stage of a new relationship. He likely knows that the love he has cultivated over many years with his wife runs much deeper and has a lot more meaning than the romantic infatuated feelings that accompany a new relationship of just a few weeks. He is enjoying the fun of being infatuated but will not replace his marriage with something so shallow and fleeting. 

Also he is nearing retirement age. What man wants to start paying alimony and child support in their senior years. He and his wife have accumulated funds and assets over the years that he will not want to lose. And finally I strongly suspect that his sex drive has largely diminished at this time of his life. The reason I think this is because of the way he approached sex with the OW, like it was some sort of mechanical chore that he had to deliver. Than later OP says he told her he rarely has sex with his wife. I think he's just not all that interested in sex anymore 

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, anika99 said:

That's not my take at all. I think the MM is just an Ahole who wants to stay married and carry on emotional affair with OW.

Also my take after the reported text and planned meeting this afternoon. 

Still, I do believe this will support the narrative of the OW - it will give her enough encouragement to continue on with this silly drama. 

This is not a real man. If, what he did yesterday was confide all to his spouse and meet with the other woman to establish a boundary with that relationship, that’s positive. However, a mature man would have done this himself - he wouldn’t have needed his wife to do the work for him. Further, a man of character and integrity wouldn’t have sent a vague text today and requested a meeting with the OW - in so doing, giving her hope when in reality… he’s just wanting to keep this going and enjoying the attention of two women. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, anika99 said:

Also he is nearing retirement age. What man wants to start paying alimony and child support in their senior years. He and his wife have accumulated funds and assets over the years that he will not want to lose. And finally I strongly suspect that his sex drive has largely diminished at this time of his life. The reason I think this is because of the way he approached sex with the OW, like it was some sort of mechanical chore that he had to deliver. Than later OP says he told her he rarely has sex with his wife. I think he's just not all that interested in sex anymore 

Agree, men of this age tend not to be looking for replacement wives for all the reasons listed above. And age has more than likely affected his sex drive and his ability to perform. Sure, there are some sixty year olds looking for a sexual affair and trying to relive their youth… but, even if that is the case, it will be short lived. Nobody can escape the effects of aging… more likely, he enjoying the attention and adoration of two women - something he probably thought was a thing of the past…

Edited August 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[anika99]

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

when in reality… he’s just wanting to keep this going and enjoying the attention of two women. 

Agreed, he is playing both of them and will keep both of them for as long as he can but we all know that if at any time he is forced to make a choice he will chose his wife. 

[BaileyB]

Just now, anika99 said:

Agreed, he is playing both of them and will keep both of them for as long as he can but we all know that if at any time he is forced to make a choice he will chose his wife. 

He already has…

[heartwhole2]

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Also my take after the reported text and planned meeting this afternoon. 

Still, I do believe this will support the narrative of the OW - it will give her enough encouragement to continue on with this silly drama. 

This is not a real man. If, what he did yesterday was confide all to his spouse and meet with the other woman to establish a boundary with that relationship, that’s positive. However, a mature man would have done this himself - he wouldn’t have needed his wife to do the work for him. Further, a man of character and integrity wouldn’t have sent a vague text today and requested a meeting with the OW - in so doing, giving her hope when in reality… he’s just wanting to keep this going and enjoying the attention of two women. 

I bet you that he feels absolved of this responsibility because he gave the OW an out . . . he told her he understood if just being friends would be too hard for her.

My husband did the same with the OW. He told her from the outset that he was a married father and you "can't unring that bell" (what a nice metaphor 🙄), and any time he talked about the future it was in a general "if we're ever together" kind of way. So surely he wasn't to blame for her wanting more and reading more into things, right?

Affairs involve a lot of justifications. Anything in life that requires a lot of elaborate justifications to override your better angels is probably something you should just not do. This MM needs to FEEL like he isn't doing anything wrong. But that doesn't mean he's actually making healthy choices.

[stillafool]

21 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

And age has more than likely affected his sex drive and his ability to perform.

Exactly, and I bet this is one of the reasons he and his wife previously weren't having sex, if that is even true.  But having another woman stoke his ego enabled him to have sex twice with his wife.  So probably to OM that is enough of a reason to continue to see OW,  because she's actually helping his marriage.

[pepperbird2]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:07 AM, Iwantthisformyself said:

Hi there. I need some feedback as I feel confused about my situation with MM. 

I have been seeing him for almost three weeks. I went back to work part time after my separation last year and I met him there. My ex H and I share a business together, but I felt like a needed to meet new people and work in contact with other persons in this transition in my life. I just couldn´t help feeling attracted to MM as soon as I met him: he´s smart and cultured, and particularly good with people. He´s 18 years my senior. I knew he was married from day one, as he used to mention his wife and children in general conversation from time to time. I could tell he realised I was attracted to him, and he seemed flattered. He was always super sweet with me. Met him in the street once ( I was with my daughter, he was with his son) and stopped to say hi and introduce the kids. We started taking our coffee breaks together 3 to 4 times a week, sitting together - and alone- at the cafeteria and I started sharing some more of my personal details. I really needed someone to talk to as I had discovered some months before that my husband had been cheating on me with a neighbor, and would not admit it or stop his affair. He was the most understanding and sympathetic person I had ever spoken to, he was a really good listener - which was totally new for me, as my husband was never that way- and talking to him made me feel like someone really understood wat I was going through. 

At the beginning of this year, I finally gathered the courage to file for divorce ( not that he was encouraging me, right the opposite, his current marriage is his second and he says he believes divorce is almost never a solution, there are other ways to work things out, the children suffer inmensely, etc). A month ago my divorce was finalised and my husband finally left the home. All this time he still hasn´t admitted to his affair, not even when I threatened divorced, or filed, or when the divorce finally became official. He keeps coming to our house everyday and calls and texts constantly, as we have two kinds together and we also share a business which we started years ago. I felt that he was still invading my life in every area of it, that I wanted something he was not a part of that fulfilled me emotionally. So one day three weeks ago, I asked my MM for a drive home from work and he agreed. An I told him. I told him how I felt about him, how being with him and talking to him made me feel that there understood and heard. An I said I wanted a more intimate relations hip with him, that I found him attractive, and I knew he was married but couldn´t help feeling the way I did. At first he seemed surprised, but flattered, and he said he was way older than me ( true, but his wife is two years younger thatnme, so I theought that wouldn´t bother him), that he was married and that he could not see how we could have a relationship. I said that I believed we were already doing it as we were spending so much time together at work one to one, and that I felt we already were intimate at a certain level. So he said it wouldn´t hurt if we just hanged out together and kept keeping each other company. I then asked him to kiss me, which he did, it was the most delicate, sweet kiss I have ever been given in my life. I don´t believe you can kiss someone like this if you have no feelings for them. I asked what his wife would think if she found out, and he said it was complicated but he was sure she wouldn´t notice, and if she did she wouldn´t care. It sounded weird, but I was so happy that I did not want to ruin our moment by speaking about her.

We continued to see each other at work, spent time together after work (never more than 45 min when he drove me as I have my kids to go back to and he has his family) and one afternoon I invited him over to my house and we spent 3 hours talking and making out in my couch ( my kids were with their dad) which felt like half an hour. Time flies when we are together!

His birthday was 10 days ago and I called him, asked him how he was planning to celebrate and that´s when he told me: he said he wasn´t celebrating his birthday because he has no one to celebrate with. His marriage has been in a difficult place for some time, but this last year it seems to have died altogether. He as a son with Asperger Syndrome, and his wife spends all of her time and energy on his therapies and school meetings, plus she has am full -time job, and has completely abandoned him. He says he can´t interact with his child properly because the kid is all about his mum, and she doesn´t even include him in family decisions anymore, so he is basically invisible in his home. He never said anything mean about her, in fact he said he understood why she had brushed him aside: he didn´t know how to help her, wasn´t much help, and made things more complicated if he tried to participate. Only thing he said that could be negative about her is that their sex life had been emotionally distant for some years, and for the last months it had been non existent. He has been sleeping in the guest room for 8 months with some silly excuse which she has not challenged because she really does not care (his words). He´s the sweetest guy I ´ve ever known. In our first 20 days together he has been super caring: he looks at me intensely in the eyes, touches my hair and face while we talk, says I am making him feel visible, alive again, and has even written me a poem. He says he is so sorry he is married because we cannot do things two people in love should be able to do, like spend more time together, go on a trip together, meet family and friends etc. He asked me out for a cup of coffee but I refused. We live in a relatively small community and I do not want people talking about us. He says it would look perfectly innocent, just a couple of friends talking over coffee, but I refused. I wanted to keep it a ttal secret between us two.

Now here comes the twist. Yesterday afternoon he was supposed to come over to my place again, but he called me saying he couldn´t make it, as his wife had confronted him about us and things were a bit rocky at home. He invited me over to his house this morning and told me his wife found out somehow that he was spending time with someone ( he did nos ask how). She asked him if he was in a relationshp with someone and he said it was not clear: he was spending time with someone but he could not call that a relationship. OUCH. He also said he had had sex with her twice after months since their talk about us ( do not know who initiated) and that somehow it had felt that he was bertaying me. He also said that she had cried when he told her and he was not expecting that at all, it took him completely by surprise and he didn´t want to hurt her.  He said he had invited me over to his house because as our relationship was so ambiguous and we had been seeing each other for so little time,  he thought we could lean towards a friendship more than an affair. He sais he loves spending time with me and talking to me so he wants to find a way we could still be connected without breaking his marriage altogether, especially for the sake of his son, who already had enough challenges in his life that he did not want to add to with an affair or a separation (he said his wife would not forgive him if she found out he was having an affair and he said she thought we had a platonic connection, but just that) . I felt hurt, but I sort of understood him. The thing is before I left he got up and kissed me. Not only did he kiss me, he also carressed me in a very intimate way. At a certain point he looked at me in the eye and asked me:" is this what you want? what do you want?"We were standing in his living room! I had no idea where his wife was, but he seemed confident she would not walk in on us. After half an hour I left without much clarity. I´m seeing him at work again tomorrow and I really do not know where we are standing: has he just asked me to stay friends or has he crossed another line in terms of our physical intimacy that makes our relationship clearly an affair ( just when his wife finds out...)?

Oh please spare me he "she abandoned her husband for her child with aspegrers". I've got an idea for him...how about he get himself off his ass,  attend the therapy sessions, talk to his counselors meet with this teachers/school officials, etc. His son may be young now, but he's going to grow up ad will need his dad to be there or him.
His son needs him so much, and he's out using his limited emotional resources on himself. What a catch.

[MilaVaneela]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

Oh please spare me he "she abandoned her husband for her child with aspegrers". I've got an idea for him...how about he get himself off his ass,  attend the therapy sessions, talk to his counselors meet with this teachers/school officials, etc. His son may be young now, but he's going to grow up ad will need his dad to be there or him.
His son needs him so much, and he's out using his limited emotional resources on himself. What a catch.

The OP said he “tries to help” by “suggesting diets and supplements and new therapists”. I say this as gently as possible, but I get the feeling that either 1) the man feels that unless his son’s autism can be “cured” and the boy made “normal” that what his wife is doing isn’t working or 2) it’s easier to throw Google results or Facebook posts at his wife and say “well I tried” instead of getting involved and putting in actual effort. 
 

Obviously I don’t know this man and can’t say for sure, but the OP’s wording suggests a detached, less than involved parent by his own choice, not by being forced out. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by MilaVaneela
Clarify thought

[ExpatInItaly]

I wonder where he'll tell his wife he's going for the afternoon. 

Her hackles are already up about OP. Maybe she'll by sly and put a tracker in his car or phone and show up at OP's door herself one of these days when she knows he's there. Wouldn't that be cute. 

[DingDang]

2 hours ago, anika99 said:

Interesting that some seem to think that the MM was trying to present a united front with his wife. That's not my take at all. I think the MM is just an Ahole who wants to stay married and carry on emotional affair with OW. He wants to keep his family as it is and get ego strokes and attention from the OW...

And finally I strongly suspect that his sex drive has largely diminished at this time of his life. The reason I think this is because of the way he approached sex with the OW, like it was some sort of mechanical chore that he had to deliver. Than later OP says he told her he rarely has sex with his wife. I think he's just not all that interested in sex anymore 

Anika nailed it, I bet.
I think he's going to take a little blue pill before he shows up at OP's place this afternoon. W may be done with him in the bedroom, but wants to keep him around for the retirement and finances and support with their son. It's entirely possible that she's given her H permission to see if his junk works with OP. If he mentions that he has a headache, he probably took a Viagra. 🧐

Edited August 15, 2021 by DingDang

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I do not believe he will tell her more. 

It sounds like this meeting was to fob you off as a 'just a friend"  to cover his  butt. 

[czanclus]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:49 PM, mimic2021 said:

And ideally, after getting on your healing journey, you will understand that love looks different. And you will seek healthy love because everything else doesn’t make sense to you anymore. 

On this solitary, obligations-spared Sunday afternoon... I read this entire discussion, all 13 pages and going.

I wonder sometimes what draws me to this sub-forum so much given that I've never been in any of the roles of MW, BS, OW - at least not properly. I mean, in my head, I'm the quintessential wanton harlot seductress or alternatively a reckless cheater, but would that my reality was nearly as exciting... but pity party aside, it's probably having been a child of a serial cheater MM and his visibly suffering betrayed wife that left me compulsively reliving various hypotheticals in the mental realm... The inevitable staleness of monogamy, all the more so in the backdrop of shared residence and child raising, and the delusional allure of the luscious pastures beyond. Small wonder I opted out of matrimonial participation way before the magical world of Disney socialized me to dream bigger. Meh.

Anyway, sorry to put my pennies too in the 'he will not choose you' bucket, OP, but he will not, and you will see things you are not seeing now about how special you never were. One doesn't even need to have been a secret mistress to laugh at their prior wishful thinking driven delusion that they (n)ever mattered a fraction of what they thought they did. Please abandon this entanglement gracefully at once. If you have to remind him you matter, you don't matter.

On the quoted bit, note that 'ideally' is the operative of the premise, and that there is a substantial likelihood that no one will ever properly choose you as number one, and that you may never get to feel 1st hand what committed genuine love feels like. Learn to be happy with life and with yourself regardless. Love is so much greater than two opposite gendered humans striving to validate it with a shared home and a legal document.

Good luck and success.

Edited August 15, 2021 by czanclus

[Iwantthisformyself]

He came today. I sent him a message as soon as my kids left, and he was there in no time.

When he arrived, we just kissed. No words spoken.

Then I told him I did not want to go all the way. I felt we were not there yet, but I wanted physican intimacy with him.

I held my hand out to him and he took it. We went to my bedroom. It was sweet and loving. No intercourse, at my request.

We talked a lot, as usual. I said I was not ready to give him up. I was not interested in being his wife´s friend. I was into him, and I did not expect anything from him. Just knowing he wanted to be with me was enough. I did not care if he was married, as long as our relationship mean something in his heart. 

He said he could not believe the way things were going. He felt he could not expect me to want to be with him because he is in limbo in his marriage: he does not know what is going to happen and he does not want to hurt either of us. He thought introducing me to his wife gave me a respectful place in his life, so that I knew he cared about me and did not want to put me in the situation of being his secret lover. He though proposing something like that was crazy, and I would see it as such. But my tenderness and the way I care about him unconditionally was something completely unexpected and filled his heart. He then mentioned that my proposition today and this time we were spending together probalby made him see things differently than he had been looking at them: his wife is all about her life: she has friends, a full time job she is passionate about, their kid. She had been considering going back to university even, to advance her carreer. She did not seem to need him much. She had it all figured out. So, what would be the harm in thinking about his own needs once after so many years of putting the family first, especially since the family did not think to need him after all? If we could make each other happy by spending time together, listening to each other, being intimate, and his wife could continue with her life without actually divorcing him, just cooperating in parenting, then everyone should be happy. We discussed many more things, of course. 

After an hour and a half he left. He had left home saying he was going for a walk, and they were expecting him to go on a bike ride together. Ketting him go was hard, but I dod not ask him to stay longer. Having him today was all I wanted. 

 

A few minutes ago I wrote, asking him how things were at home. I told him my kids had just returned after spending the afternoon with their dad, and, just like he said, everyone at my home was happy, especially me.

But his answer was not so comforting. He said: Not so great. I´ll tell you tomorrow...