What just happened? I need your views.

[ExpatInItaly]

One point to add as well, about MM's wife. 

She's an astute woman, OP. A lot smarter than you realize.  She knows who you are now, OP, and she's added you on FB. Let me tell you what happened one day to a friend of mine. I didn't know she was having an affair with a MM. A mutual friend of ours, whose wife was on our FB as well. 

Want to know how I found out? I logged into FB one morning and ALL OVER the newsfeed were the messages his wife had found between them, putting my friend on blast for being a homewrecker. She posted them and tagged my friend in every single one. EVERYONE on her FB saw it before she did. Her family. Her coworkers. Her neighbours. Her teenaged kid. I called her to alert her, and she said people had been blowing up her phone all morning, telling her to log in immediately because she needed to see something on her FB. She did and untagged herself and blocked the wife, but it was way too late.  Caused her tremendous embarrassment, and cost her some friendships too. Take this as a cautionary tale. 

Your MM's wife? She was very clever here. She was a little suspicious about you, so sent you a Friend request. She likely knew you would add her to avoid raising an alarm, but she also knows it will look a little suspicous if you delete her now, too. She painted you right into a corner and you didn't even realize it. 

[pepperbird2]

2 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Then why is your relationship of one month already so confusing and angst-ridden?

IMHO the OP is one of those people who thrives on the drama they create, all while insisting they don't.

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Well, maybe she should. Not because he is an idiot, but rather because their relationship is over.

Their relationship is over - according to you. 

He went home to be with his family and go for a bike ride. It doesn’t sound like his wife is not engaged and the marriage is over - she wanted to meet the woman who is attempting to interfere in her relationship, they do activities together as a family, they had sex twice last week. How does that lead you to believe that this relationship/marriage is over?

[pepperbird2]

4 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

One point to add as well, about MM's wife. 

She's an astute woman, OP. A lot smarter than you realize.  She knows who you are now, OP, and she's added you on FB. Let me tell you what happened one day to a friend of mine. I didn't know she was having an affair with a MM. A mutual friend of ours, whose wife was on our FB as well. 

Want to know how I found out? I logged into FB one morning and ALL OVER the newsfeed were the messages his wife had found between them, putting my friend on blast for being a homewrecker. She posted them and tagged my friend in every single one. EVERYONE on her FB saw it before she did. Her family. Her coworkers. Her neighbours. Her teenaged kid. I called her to alert her, and she said people had been blowing up her phone all morning, telling her to log in immediately because she needed to see something on her FB. She did and untagged herself and blocked the wife, but it was way too late.  Caused her tremendous embarrassment, and cost her some friendships too. Take this as a cautionary tale. 

Your MM's wife? She was very clever here. She was a little suspicious about you, so sent you a Friend request. She likely knew you would add her to avoid raising an alarm, but she also knows it will look a little suspicous if you delete her now, too. She painted you right into a corner and you didn't even realize it. 

wouldn't it be poetic justice if while the OP's MM was acting like the cat who caught the canary, his wife was getting her ducks in a row, arranging for divorce etc. She sounds likee just the sort of woman who would do so, and if and when she does this, the MM here will likely crumble. He's like a little boy sneaking into the cookies behind his mommy's back, meanwhile, mommy knows just what hes up to.

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

wouldn't it be poetic justice if while the OP's MM was acting like the cat who caught the canary, his wife was getting her ducks in a row, arranging for divorce etc. She sounds likee just the sort of woman who would do so, and if and when she does this, the MM here will likely crumble. He's like a little boy sneaking into the cookies behind his mommy's back, meanwhile, mommy knows just what hes up to.

He apparently hasn’t been to a lawyer to learn how much a divorce would cost him… If he had, he wouldn’t be sneaking around behind his wife’s back. This woman sounds like she would be the kind to cut him loose - which is exactly what OP hopes, but will have tremendous consequences for this MM. 

[pepperbird2]

5 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

He apparently hasn’t been to a lawyer to learn how much a divorce would cost him… If he had, he wouldn’t be sneaking around behind his wife’s back. This woman sounds like she would be the kind to cut him loose - which is exactly what OP hopes, but will have tremendous consequences for this MM. 

Agreed, and not just financial. This man really sounds like a little boy who would prefer to not have adult responsibilities-he'd rather play.

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

She carries on with her things, we have each other. Everyone should be happy, right? I don´t need him to divorce her. I´ve been abundantly clear about this to him and here as well.

As we see rather frequently here, a bad marriage often leads to a spouse to start considering their options, one of which is to have an affair to regain emotional connection, etc.

So long as you're (genuinely) happy with this "arrangement" and emotionally mature about the possibility of losing him there is little to lose for you then.

You hear a lot on these boards from OWs who wish they had "more" and eventually get hurt and frustrated when that doesn't materialize. IF you're (actually) ok with being an OW/AP you seem to have a good situation in that:

- If he stays with his wife, you're OK.

- If he leaves his wife (or vice versa), you're also OK.

 

The problems (IMO) that may come are:

- If his wife decides to leave him, he may abandon you to chase her. This is apparently not uncommon. IF she starts to separate/divorce, I'd say there's a 50% chance of that happening. She might also put her foot down to end your "association".

- You eventually DO start to "want more" or simply become frustrated with the limitations of the situation.

- His wife might eventually start some sort of vendetta against you, I'd say there's a low, but real, chance of that; e.g. stirring up trouble where you work or similar.

- IF you go with this for a long time, you may "spend your years" with him, but with little to show for it at the end if he stays with her. We see this occasionally here as well.

Edited August 16, 2021 by mark clemson

[Starswillshine]

This story is still so wild. 

OP sets her sights on this older MM. And then goes out of her way to make sure they interact, asks for car rides, etc..

MM has a successful, attractive wife who is a good mother to their special needs kids. No doubt this woman is busy as hell. MM does not give any assistance to his wife. Cries and whines because wife doesn't have any time for him without doing anything to help her make time. 

He says what the heck and accepts the advances of the OP. The wife picks up that something is up, and MM immediately is running back to his wife leg humping her. Goes as far as to introduce the wife to OP (which is a special type of f'edupness). 

But he is so weak, and NEEDS to have a woman fawning all over him so he can't get rid of this woman who is obsessed now. Because what feels better than a woman who is so crazy over him that she went through such crazy lengths? 

[ ]

Edited August 16, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude

[heartwhole2]

I've seen a couple of OW stories which I would classify as not total disasters.

One was a "love at first sight" between two married people. The MM wanted to start an affair right away. The MW said, no, if this is for real then we do this the right way. We divorce our spouses. We get counseling. She made him wait a while to meet her kids. She understood that the fact that he wanted to jump in her pants the second she met him meant that he had issues he needed to work on before being the kind of partner she wanted.

The second was a MW who seemed to have a good amount of self-awareness, which is rare in these situations (I believe that generally there's a correlation between self-awareness and integrity, so it's rare to find someone high in one and low in the other), and who saw the affair realistically. She still struggled with jealousy and drama, but in general she seemed to have solid self-esteem, affair or not. She was able to let go when the affair was over.

Unfortunately this story is not similar to either of those.

[RebeccaR]

Has he ever told you he loves you? You have said you have both fallen in love with each other, but has he affirmed his love? 

[Ha-ha]

22 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

…

He said he could not believe the way things were going. He felt he could not expect me to want to be with him because he is in limbo in his marriage: he does not know what is going to happen and he does not want to hurt either of us. He thought introducing me to his wife gave me a respectful place in his life, so that I knew he cared about me and did not want to put me in the situation of being his secret lover. He though proposing something like that was crazy, and I would see it as such. But my tenderness and the way I care about him unconditionally was something completely unexpected and filled his heart. He then mentioned that my proposition today and this time we were spending together probalby made him see things differently than he had been looking at them: his wife is all about her life: she has friends, a full time job she is passionate about, their kid. She had been considering going back to university even, to advance her carreer. She did not seem to need him much. She had it all figured out. So, what would be the harm in thinking about his own needs once after so many years of putting the family first, especially since the family did not think to need him after all? If we could make each other happy by spending time together, listening to each other, being intimate, and his wife could continue with her life without actually divorcing him, just cooperating in parenting, then everyone should be happy. We discussed many more things, of course. 

….

How is this attractive?  Here’s a loser, who instead of upping his game in face of a great, accomplished woman like an adult partner who support each other, whines and cries about his pathetic needs?

Does he leave then as he nows find the tenderness he so craves in you?  Noooo…. He'd rather stick to wifey!  
Divorced couple  co-parent all the time.   What reason could he possibly have to stick to this great woman?  It’s like a little boy hanging onto mommy because mommy pays his allowance. Eww….
 

This Netflix story line suffers from continuity error…. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[RebeccaR]

21 minutes ago, Berlin said:

Ewww how is this attractive?

OP has it bad for this guy who is clearly her rebound person after her divorce. No way to talk sense into her in this situation.

[vla1120]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:09 PM, Iwantthisformyself said:

I need to think now. I really need to make sense of this meeting....

It's hard to make sense out of something so nonsensical. This whole situation is just bizarre. He's either sending you the strong message that you're in the friend zone - and you're not getting it - or he's simply not playing with a full deck. Since the three of you seem to be into "sharing" so much, why don't you suggest that the wife come out here and post her feelings about this situation. I suspect she'll come across with a totally different perspective than the one you're presenting for her.

[Iwantthisformyself]

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

One point to add as well, about MM's wife. 

She's an astute woman, OP. A lot smarter than you realize.  She knows who you are now, OP, and she's added you on FB. Let me tell you what happened one day to a friend of mine. I didn't know she was having an affair with a MM. A mutual friend of ours, whose wife was on our FB as well. 

Want to know how I found out? I logged into FB one morning and ALL OVER the newsfeed were the messages his wife had found between them, putting my friend on blast for being a homewrecker. She posted them and tagged my friend in every single one. EVERYONE on her FB saw it before she did. Her family. Her coworkers. Her neighbours. Her teenaged kid. I called her to alert her, and she said people had been blowing up her phone all morning, telling her to log in immediately because she needed to see something on her FB. She did and untagged herself and blocked the wife, but it was way too late.  Caused her tremendous embarrassment, and cost her some friendships too. Take this as a cautionary tale. 

Your MM's wife? She was very clever here. She was a little suspicious about you, so sent you a Friend request. She likely knew you would add her to avoid raising an alarm, but she also knows it will look a little suspicous if you delete her now, too. She painted you right into a corner and you didn't even realize it. 

Maybe you are right, and she showed up looking all kind and nice but she was actually carrying out a strategy. I expressed my concerns about her to him today, but he believes she would not do something like that. It is below her standards. Who knows?

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, vla1120 said:

It's hard to make sense out of something so nonsensical. This whole situation is just bizarre. He's either sending you the strong message that you're in the friend zone - and you're not getting it - or he's simply not playing with a full deck. Since the three of you seem to be into "sharing" so much, why don't you suggest that the wife come out here and post her feelings about this situation. I suspect she'll come across with a totally different perspective than the one you're presenting for her.

I believe he is trying to send the message that we should be friends, as he feels conflicted about our situation, but that is not what he wants. I see it in his actions. He told me yesterday when he came home she was super angry because the moment he came in she knew he had been with me. She said it was written  all over his face. ( Apparently he is not a very good liar after all, he assures me he has never lied like this before, and he finds it very hard and it makes him guilty) He admitted it rightaway. She said some "not very nice things" (something along the lines of if this is what you want, then this is what you deserve, among other colorful language) about me, and some other not very nice things about him. She asked hundreds of questions. He just admitted to feelings and kisses between us ( not sex). She said she was not going to stop him from doing whatever he wanted, but he would not do whatever he wanted to her. From now on, she´ll make the decision she considers necessary based on his behavior.

Anyway, that did not alter our normal time together: we still met for lunch, and we left work to spend some time together like we always do. He was loving and cuddly as usual. So it seems it is not so clear that he has chosen his wife after all, right? Now she knows there has been physical contact and that he has feelings for me. She has sort of issued an ultimatum. And still, he chose to spend time with me as usual.

[mark clemson]

^^ well, the opera won't be over 'til it's over on that one.

He may not believe she's actually going to leave over you; and frankly she may not. But whether what you have will continue through whatever she may throw at it is entirely another matter. He apparently at least currently feels that what you have is worth risking whatever he thinks he is risking for. That MAY continue, may not.

 

20 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

he believes she would not do something like that. It is below her standards. Who knows?

IF you feel it's a concern/potential issue, the wise thing to do would probably be to head it off at the pass. For example, you could unfriend her or similar with the reason that you're trying to cut back on SM or you get too much stuff in your feed, etc. Or take similar precautions e.g. if there are settings that let you stop people from posting stuff that's likely to reach your FB friends?

Another option would be to exit the situation entirely and look for a partner you feel is less problematic.

Edited August 16, 2021 by mark clemson

[Iwantthisformyself]

3 hours ago, Berlin said:

Ewww how is this attractive?  Here’s a loser, who instead of upping his game in face of a great, accomplished woman like an adult partner who support each other, whines and cries about his pathetic needs?

Does he leave then as he nows find the tenderness he so craves in you?  Noooo…. He'd rather stick to wifey!  
Divorced couple  co-parent all the time.   What reason could he possibly have to stick to this great woman?  It’s like a little boy hanging onto mommy because mommy pays his allowance. Eww….
 

This Netflix story line suffers from continuity error…. 

Well, not everyone has a blessed life, you know? People sometimes feel broken. Those who love us are supposed to stick with us during those times, rather than just abandon us. I totally get that he feels hurt by the way she has abandoned him. Surely, the state of the marriage is a shared responsability, but plain ignoring someone everyday is an indivdual choice. Today, for the first time, I told him what I think about her: she has been neglecting him, and now she acts entitled over him because she can see he´s interesed in me. That is plain selfish. She had been very clear she wanted the marriage to end. Why change her mind now? There is no reason why he sould consider he change of mind a change of heart. She´s just shocked he - who was so insignificant to her- found someone for whom he is not insignificant, and she´s jealous.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 minute ago, mark clemson said:

He may not believe she's actually going to leave over you; and frankly she may not.

Great then. I´m ok with her staying. I´ll take care of my relationship with him, not hers with him. Thanks for the advice concerning FB. I´ll think about it...

[Iwantthisformyself]

5 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I've seen a couple of OW stories which I would classify as not total disasters.

One was a "love at first sight" between two married people. The MM wanted to start an affair right away. The MW said, no, if this is for real then we do this the right way. We divorce our spouses. We get counseling. She made him wait a while to meet her kids. She understood that the fact that he wanted to jump in her pants the second she met him meant that he had issues he needed to work on before being the kind of partner she wanted.

The second was a MW who seemed to have a good amount of self-awareness, which is rare in these situations (I believe that generally there's a correlation between self-awareness and integrity, so it's rare to find someone high in one and low in the other), and who saw the affair realistically. She still struggled with jealousy and drama, but in general she seemed to have solid self-esteem, affair or not. She was able to let go when the affair was over.

Unfortunately this story is not similar to either of those.

It seems my story is similar to all one second, and unbelievable different the next. I guess it is our story, just that. I don´t know what may come, but that´s life, right?

[RebeccaR]

4 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

That is plain selfish.

Again, the petulant OW whines “why won’t she just give him up without a fight?”

If the marriage was really over before you came on the scene, why weren’t they separated or divorced already? I doubt she was really on the way out the door.

[Iwantthisformyself]

7 hours ago, DingDang said:

What if he were to leave the W, commit to you, and then have an affair with someone else? Would you wish him well? You'll probably say yes, but we all know that's not true. You're justifying what you're doing to make yourself feel better. 

And yes, this is a run of the mill affair, except for the meeting with the W. That was unusual. Seeing as how he's still hiding you and lying to her, I strongly suspect that meeting was an attempt to show her that you're just a friend. If I were a betting woman, I'd put money on this unraveling quickly. Unless she's given him permission to mess around and told him that she doesn't want to know about it, which is possible. 

Why would I worry now that he might have an affair if she leaves and we are together? I got married and thought my ex wouldn´t have an affair, bt he did. Nobody knows what´s going to happen in their lives. Many people posting here might be having an affair, or their spouses might be having an affair, and they still haven´t discovered it. You just deal with whatever comes to you. That´s life.

[Iwantthisformyself]

6 hours ago, stillafool said:

  While she was probably laughing at what you two were up to at the park knowing this was some feeble attempt by him to make her jealous and show him love.  That is why she had no problem telling you that you and your kids were welcomed in her home.  You couldn't stand the fact that she took you so lightly

She did not take me lightly, and was very angry that he had us meet, only to see me in private the following day. She´s got a point, there. But he wanted to try the friends thing and see it if helped in any way. I made it very clear I am not interested in being her friend. He doesn´t want to be my friend either. I believe he was just trying to do the right thing, and if I had gone along with that, it would have stayed that way. But I´m not that type of person, and I would have felt umcomfortable being their friend knowing what had actually happened and the feelings between us.

[Iwantthisformyself]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Again, the petulant OW whines “why won’t she just give him up without a fight?”

If the marriage was really over before you came on the scene, why weren’t they separated or divorced already? I doubt she was really on the way out the door.

Accepting the end of a 24 year old marriage and actually acting on it takes time, I guess.

[Iwantthisformyself]

6 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

I am curious why you didn’t text him back and ask what was wrong. His communication seems very weak. If you are in love, why can’t you ask him to clarify what’s confusing you?

I did not want to complicate things further by texting him. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

6 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

I asked before with no answer: how will you feel when he goes on family vacations, goes to family weddings and other celebrations without you, Christmas? To his son you will be a stranger or a vague and unimportant family friend. Are you sure you’re ok with all that?

Yes. I am.