What just happened? I need your views.

[BaileyB]

7 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

His wife was not at home. He wrote to me at 6:30 in the morning to tell me to come over later, as they were getting ready to take their child to school. Maybe she had errands to do, maybe she was at work. Had she been in the house I would not have gone there.

You said he invited you into their home and you had no idea where his wife was or whether she would walk in on you.

Quote

He invited me over to his house this morning. We were standing in his living room! I had no idea where his wife was, but he seemed confident she would not walk in on us.

Kindly, it doesn’t matter if she was there or not. You were somewhere you should not have been and you knew it - you said “We were standing in his living room!” 

You have no right to be in this woman’s home and you have no right to be in a relationship with her husband. Full stop. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

11 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I don´t believe an affair/affair partner can be the reason a marriage ends.

And yet, you filed for divorce after you discovered your husband’s affair with your neighbour. 

That’s some Olympic level mental gymnastics you are trying to do here… 

Edited August 7, 2021 by BaileyB

[glows]

7 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I don´t believe an affair/affair partner can be the reason a marriage ends. If this happens, it is because the marriage was already over. There is no love anymore, or at least an agreement to continue together with a minumun of concern for each other. He is not at all pushy in any way with me, which gives me a very clear feeling that he is not trying to take advantage of me. He certainly is indecisive or confused, though.

Yes, it’s an opportunistic way of looking at it. Similarly, if something is critically injured there is no harm in snapping its neck and eating it up (it was already half dead). 

As you know marriages are full of ups and downs. Couples do repair their grievances and continue to go on or find new appreciation for one another. 

The problem seems to me that you’re lapping up his every last word, every soft gesture towards you, every invitation, every reason why he’s not present in his marriage and the excuses he gives about a seemingly non-existent wife. Instead of engaging with his wife he goes on drives with another woman, entertains her feelings, wants to have coffee with her and is contradictory when it comes to “cheating” or breaking his marriage vows. He doesn’t want to hurt his wife because he knows he IS hurting her and he has a sliver of a conscience. That’s what bothers you - one moment he appears ready to be with you and in another he’s held back. 

When I asked why you would choose to be a part of this it’s rhetorical and a moment to pause and think as you say about all the reasons for leaving a marriage. Don’t forget they also have a special needs child. Whether he falls to you and leaves his wife, his wife and child will always be a part of his life. Are you prepared to have living and constant reminders of the family you helped tear apart?

[ExpatInItaly]

Wow. 

I hope you don't hold any resentment against your ex for cheating on you. Because the same typical MM-BS that you are gobbling up right now? Your ex-husband was probably saying the same things about you to his AP. So at don't hold your ex's affair against him anymore, since you now seem to be okay with married people cheating. 

You would be foolish to believe this is a relationship. You aren't "together" in any sense of the world. You would also be foolish to believe that just because you have always done the "good" thing that any good will come of this situation. Going after what you want doesn't mean you will not do a triumphant faceplant in a proverbial pile of equine manure all the same. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[SoulCat]

44 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

OW and affair are categories below what we have. I am not that conventional.

Said practically every OW about themselves and their affair. 

 

I guess admitting that what you have is a pretty run of the mill affair with a bog-standard conflict avoiding, middle aged man is somewhat of a dream shattering realisation.

But you will most likely get to that point. After weeks, months or even years of playing second fiddle. After you've cried enough tears, made enough excuses and wasted enough time on a man who was never worth any of it.

Edited August 7, 2021 by SoulCat

[heartwhole2]

I think if you want to keep pushing boundaries, then congratulations, you have can have sex with a waffling cheater. But it's almost certain that's all it will ever be. If you want more than an affair, or sure, you want an affair but decide to override that impulse in order to save yourself and others (an innocent child, for one) pain and suffering later, then you should walk away. No one can force you to have a relationship with this man (and certainly you seem to be the one doing most of the initiating). 

I've always known it would be easy to find someone to have "not going anywhere" sex with me. Is this something you intend to learn the hard way?

And goodness, his poor me tale was anything but. It's not a real mystery why a full time working mother with a special needs child whose partner wipes his hands of helping would find herself without the bandwidth to make him feel special. Imagine if he took this energy that he's putting into your relationship into being his authentic self with his wife and the best father he could be. That's what a healthy adult would do. It's not surprising at all that he's on par maturity wise with someone 20 years his junior, is it (if he even is)?

[spiderowl]

I am puzzled about what is going on here, OP.  Somehow you have decided that because you have put your needs in the background in the past, they should now be the only thing you care about.  You chased this guy, encouraged him into an affair with you, and seem oblivious to the inappropriateness of what you are doing.

Are you so hurt about your husband's betrayal that this is some way of hitting back?  Your actions seem totally selfish.  I am not convinced that this is new to you.  I get the feeling you are used to going after what you want and you don't let anything get in your way.

Yes, we all need someone to love us and care about us, I can understand your needs.  If you meet a guy who seems to be what you want, then it is hard to resist, but if he is married and is not seeking an affair, then we resist.

I expect he has enjoyed the attention and likes you, is attracted to you, but he is at risk of losing his family and seems to be trying to turn this into a friendship instead, maybe FWB.  Going to his house was risky, even though his wife was out.  Do you enjoy risk?  

It sounds to me like he is really confused and messed up.  He is making silly mistakes now, inviting you into their home.  You seem to be both heading into chaos rather than a happy relationship.  You have stated that you want this though, so no doubt you will pursue it to whatever end.  Does this guy want you to pursue it?  How do you know?

I fully appreciate you were lonely, scared and felt unloved.  This guy just happened to be there and appealed to you.  He was a good listener.  That is a lovely quality and very appealing when you need that.  You really need someone who is free though, somehow who does not have to hide away.  Can I ask exactly why you wanted to keep it entirely secret if he was prepared to meet you in public?  This is a strange anomaly and OW usually want to be open and acknowledged.

Is it the risk, the secrecy, that makes this all appealing for you?  Maybe it would help you to look at your motives, what is driving you, what you are enjoying about all this.  You are effectively throwing a bomb into a family.  Why are you seeing it differently?

Edited August 7, 2021 by spiderowl

[Iwantthisformyself]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately, you're in a very vulnerable place as far as emotions, relationships, etc. Sadly you are falling for a man who cheats and lies.

Hopefully it will end soon and you won't get hurt too much. Take time to recover from your divorce and cheating ex-husband.

Try not to pass along your pain to others who were in your shoes.

This may be a good time to get a good profile and pics on some quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting available single men.

Funnily enough, I hve never felt so empowered in my entire life. I would never use dating apps. I believe they are not spontaneous at all. It must feel all so artificial...

[Iwantthisformyself]

3 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I think if you want to keep pushing boundaries, then congratulations, you have can have sex with a waffling cheater. But it's almost certain that's all it will ever be. If you want more than an affair, or sure, you want an affair but decide to override that impulse in order to save yourself and others (an innocent child, for one) pain and suffering later, then you should walk away. No one can force you to have a relationship with this man (and certainly you seem to be the one doing most of the initiating). 

I've always known it would be easy to find someone to have "not going anywhere" sex with me. Is this something you intend to learn the hard way?

And goodness, his poor me tale was anything but. It's not a real mystery why a full time working mother with a special needs child whose partner wipes his hands of helping would find herself without the bandwidth to make him feel special. Imagine if he took this energy that he's putting into your relationship into being his authentic self with his wife and the best father he could be. That's what a healthy adult would do. It's not surprising at all that he's on par maturity wise with someone 20 years his junior, is it (if he even is)?

 

It is not about sex primarily. True, we were discussing sex a few days ago, as I said we both needed to get tested and I needed to go into back into contraception if we are going to have sex. I do not think of it in tems of this being an affair, rather as an unconventional relationship between two consenting adults. I know what is at stake on my side. It os his job to consider what is at stake in his, not mine.

Sex or no sex - that is not the point of our enjoying each other- we have a strong emptional bond. I do not see how that can be "not going anywhere".

He is more than willing to help. She just doesn´t make room for him in his child´s life, from what he told me. He´s constantly finding new therapists, diets, nutritional commplenets etc. His child feels his mum is his world and hardly acknowledges him as a father figure. He has tried for years to put his energy into the relationship with them both with no results. He just feels invisible, frustrated and I guess he sort of gave up. As for maturity, none of us are children anymore. The wife and I are in our middle 40s and he is in his early 60s. I believe we all know what we are doing.

Edited August 8, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Iwantthisformyself]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

For good reason, don’t you think?

Let’s not digress into a side discussion of little relevance to the original poster… 

I did not come here seeking either support or judgement, just objective opinions and views of the situation. I have my own parameters, which have been described here as flexible or olympic mental gymastics. That is of. I am not here to pass judgement on anybody´s voew of the situation. I´m open to considering all views.

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, spiderowl said:

I am puzzled about what is going on here, OP.  Somehow you have decided that because you have put your needs in the background in the past, they should now be the only thing you care about.  You chased this guy, encouraged him into an affair with you, and seem oblivious to the inappropriateness of what you are doing.

Are you so hurt about your husband's betrayal that this is some way of hitting back?  Your actions seem totally selfish.  I am not convinced that this is new to you.  I get the feeling you are used to going after what you want and you don't let anything get in your way.

Yes, we all need someone to love us and care about us, I can understand your needs.  If you meet a guy who seems to be what you want, then it is hard to resist, but if he is married and is not seeking an affair, then we resist.

I expect he has enjoyed the attention and likes you, is attracted to you, but he is at risk of losing his family and seems to be trying to turn this into a friendship instead, maybe FWB.  Going to his house was risky, even though his wife was out.  Do you enjoy risk?  

It sounds to me like he is really confused and messed up.  He is making silly mistakes now, inviting you into their home.  You seem to be both heading into chaos rather than a happy relationship.  You have stated that you want this though, so no doubt you will pursue it to whatever end.  Does this guy want you to pursue it?  How do you know?

I fully appreciate you were lonely, scared and felt unloved.  This guy just happened to be there and appealed to you.  He was a good listener.  That is a lovely quality and very appealing when you need that.  You really need someone who is free though, somehow who does not have to hide away.  Can I ask exactly why you wanted to keep it entirely secret if he was prepared to meet you in public?  This is a strange anomaly and OW usually want to be open and acknowledged.

Is it the risk, the secrecy, that makes this all appealing for you?  Maybe it would help you to look at your motives, what is driving you, what you are enjoying about all this.  You are effectively throwing a bomb into a family.  Why are you seeing it differently?

 

I can see how I could come across as selfish, believe me. I have been the most giving person on this planet, and it has turned out to be unhealthy. I am mot willing to push against his will, but as long as he is available to me, I will certainly continue our relationship.

Why would I resist? He has all the freedom in the world not to see me, and he still chooses to. I am no mother Theresa, and do not see why I should be.

Not particularly. I went to his home because I trusted that if he invited me, it was a safe oment to be there.

I know because he keeps cotacting me, and his eyes shine when he sees me. 

Because our town is relatively small and is known to a certain big circle of people from the professional point of view. I know how people view this sort of thing and I do not want people saying i "stole him from his wife" or " he seemed such a respectable man, but turned out to be a plain cheater".

What I enjoy the most is our emotional connection, our conversations, the cuddling, kissing and affection he expresses to me when we are together.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Iwantthisformyself]

Why is everyone here so sure he is backpedalling and our relationship will not go anywhere? I get the complete opposite impression from being with him and communicating with him on the phone. I asked him not to use whatsapp as my teenage daughter sometimes looks at my messages and I don´t want her to fins anything suspicious. We do not text dirty or sexy things, just caring an emotional things, but anyway. My daughter knows him and knows he is married. I don´t want her to believe I am trying to break up a marriage. So, I asked him to open a facebook profile ( he had never had one) to message me and we text each other a lot.

He asks a lot about me when we are together: my childhood, my dreams, my likes. It is as if he wants total immersion into me to know me as best as possible. He´s not trying to get into my pants at all. I feel seen, admired and respected as a woman.

[BaileyB]

13 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I do not think of it in tems of this being an affair, rather as an unconventional relationship between two consenting adults.

Would his wife consider this an affair? Because really, what you are discussing here is an unconventional relationship between three individuals - two of whom are consenting and one other who is probably not. 

6 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I know how people view this sort of thing and I do not want people saying i "stole him from his wife" or " he seemed such a respectable man, but turned out to be a plain cheater".

Why would they not - it would be accurate. That’s exactly what’s happening here…

[Seliana]

Wow OP, for a BS you have absolutely no empathy for another one.

Yes you're responsible for breaking up another marriage. True he's the married person, but you are aiding an abetting. Btw children of cheaters have a 50% chance of repeating the behavior what a lovely example you are setting for your daughter.

[BaileyB]

15 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Why is everyone here so sure he is backpedalling and our relationship will not go anywhere?

Because he said it himself… 

Quote

He also said that she had cried when he told her and he was not expecting that at all, it took him completely by surprise and he didn´t want to hurt her.  He said we had been seeing each other for so little time,  he thought we could lean towards a friendship more than an affair. 

 

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I get the complete opposite impression from being with him and communicating with him on the phone.

You are projecting your feelings on him. One thing is clear from your posts, you are considering this situation only from your own perspective. Not his. Certainly not his wife’s perspective. 

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I don´t want her to believe I am trying to break up a marriage.

Well then, respect the fact that he is married and quit pursuing another woman’s husband. Your daughter is not stupid, if you are discovered she will know exactly what you have done. 

[basil67]

5 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

 I have been in counseling for some months, and I have come to realise that I have always been the good girl, always putting my needs and wants after others. It has been super harmful for me. No more of that. Of course he is green pasture: he is kind, open, sincere and super affectionate. What is wrong with being attracted to someone like this? I think the OW category is a cliche. I am a woman he has feelings for. Marriage does not make you blind to other people.

 

Putting your needs and wants after others does not make you a "good girl".   Rather, it reflects that you allowed others to walk over you - it's more of a 'doormat' thing.  Now it would seem that you're wanting to switch to not caring about how your actions may hurt others.  So it would seem you've switched from door mat to selfish.   Neither of these are healthy ways to be.

How about finding that middle ground of respecting both yourself and others?  The key is in learning to be assertive while maintaining a good sense of ethics.  Get your own needs met without causing harm to others.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Why is everyone here so sure he is backpedalling and our relationship will not go anywhere?

Well, you are not in a relationship with him. 

This is three weeks of footsie and some making out. Not a relationship. 

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He asks a lot about me when we are together: my childhood, my dreams, my likes. It is as if he wants total immersion into me to know me as best as possible. He´s not trying to get into my pants at all. I feel seen, admired and respected as a woman.

It most definitely is the beginnings of a relationship. It's just at the early stages.

However, it most definitely IS an affair. That is by the definition of the term.** You may feel definitions/categories are cliche or what have you, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. You have kissed, etc, he is married. So that relationship is an affair.

It sounds like he is the type of man who likes to lavish affection and attention on his partner. His wife has no time/interest (until very recently) for this, and with a significant reason. Also frankly, his attention may be "old hat" to her. Perceiving you and his interest in you may have been a bit of a kick in the pants. And in fact, many times an affair or interest in another partner make wake a person up to the ways their relationship has been going downhill, etc.

It does seem like he wants to continue to stay married AND to continue to see you. This would constitute (by definition) continuing an affair.

IF you don't want to be in an affair, you could stop seeing him. If being in an affair is ok with you, then you have the option to continue it.

You worry about breaking up his marriage. That is (apparently) a low probability turn of events, although his wife's discovery of your existence may make the probability higher (due to her leaving him, potentially). And he has stated as much directly - that he wants to stay married. Men tend to be direct communicators. I think he wants you around for what you might term "emotional attention" possibly more. So, substantially more likely, if you continue, is you will continue to be an affair partner until you become frustrated that he doesn't wish to leave.

 

Quote

**affair:  a sexual relationship between two people, one or both of whom are married to someone else.

 

[heartwhole2]

4 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Why is everyone here so sure he is backpedalling and our relationship will not go anywhere? I get the complete opposite impression from being with him and communicating with him on the phone. I asked him not to use whatsapp as my teenage daughter sometimes looks at my messages and I don´t want her to fins anything suspicious. We do not text dirty or sexy things, just caring an emotional things, but anyway. My daughter knows him and knows he is married. I don´t want her to believe I am trying to break up a marriage. So, I asked him to open a facebook profile ( he had never had one) to message me and we text each other a lot.

He asks a lot about me when we are together: my childhood, my dreams, my likes. It is as if he wants total immersion into me to know me as best as possible. He´s not trying to get into my pants at all. I feel seen, admired and respected as a woman.

TBH I'm having a hard time following the logic, and my guess is that that's because you are trying to fit his actions into the narrative that you are set on (after all, "you want this for yourself" . . . it would be inconvenient if he didn't want it too). But the cognitive dissonance created when he changed his assessment of his home life and then sent you confusing signals is what brought you here, unsure enough that you wanted outside opinions.

The reason not to have an affair isn't to be a Mother Theresa, or because women are supposed to guard men's fidelity or some backwards BS like that. It's because you have an opportunity to avoid the pain and harm that are coming your way and for people you care about. It's because you have an opportunity to figure out why, now that you have a whole world of available partners to choose from, you are zeroing in on a conflict-avoidant, wishy-washy 60 year old who is one big walking affair cliche. It's to figure out why you feel you need to keep leading him down the path to give you what you want, when the kind of grown-up, consensual relationship you can really brag about involves someone who doesn't need to keep being nudged and reminded into wanting you. It's to step back and lean into the lessons from your divorce, so that you can understand why a bit of emotional connection and attention has you responding this way.

I want good things in my life. I deserve them! You do too. I hope you can find healing and wholeness and that that whole and healthy you can find a whole and healthy relationship, just like you deserve.

[Ha-ha]

9 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Why is everyone here so sure he is backpedalling and our relationship will not go anywhere? I get the complete opposite impression from being with him and communicating with him on the phone. I asked him not to use whatsapp as my teenage daughter sometimes looks at my messages and I don´t want her to fins anything suspicious. We do not text dirty or sexy things, just caring an emotional things, but anyway. My daughter knows him and knows he is married. I don´t want her to believe I am trying to break up a marriage. So, I asked him to open a facebook profile ( he had never had one) to message me and we text each other a lot.

He asks a lot about me when we are together: my childhood, my dreams, my likes. It is as if he wants total immersion into me to know me as best as possible. He´s not trying to get into my pants at all. I feel seen, admired and respected as a woman.

I am compelled to reply,  I am always amazed how many OW fall for this line. I catfished a woman once, as she was going after my husband. He wanted nothing to do with her so I decided to have fun.  I, a woman, could 'seduce' this woman using the exact steps used by so many MM in this board. 
My point is, it’s so easy to be manipulated if we allow it. 

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

. I would never use dating apps. I believe they are not spontaneous at all

That's fine. You can meet decent honest men naturally and in person. You don't have to resort to seeing married men, cheaters, liars, etc.

You could spend your time building a relationship with available single men rather than listening to his typical "my spouse doesn't understand me" situation.

 

[elaine567]

You think you are being daring and "unconventional" but you have fallen for the oldest trick in the  book "my wife does not understand me".
You say you are fed up being the good girl the one who puts her needs behind others but here you have just found another person to save.
A poor little man desperate for affection and connection, something you are so willing to provide for him.
Those shining eyes when he sees you, gives you the buzz you require, but at what cost?

I think it is all so admirable to want to save this quality man from his miserable life, if it wasn't a story we have all heard before.
Yes you will improve his life, make his marriage more bearable, but like a parasite, he will eat away at your very being. 
Push and pull will keep you attracted and hooked and confused and pining..., he is already onto that strategy. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

Thank you all for your input. You have given me some things to think about regarding myself and the situation. I definitely have feelings for this man, and they are deep, but there is no way I am little red riding hood going into the forest carelessly. I have been through enough to know better. I just want to explore this relationship and see where it goes because I believe the connection that has been established between us is real and beautiful. My eyes are wide open, and I will continue this as long as I feel comfortable with what is going on. I don´t see myself in pain beacuse he is not leaving or waiting for years for him to leae his wife to be with me. As long as it makes me happy as it is, I feel comfortable moving forward.

I definitely agree this is the beginning of a relationship. I understand how the relationship can be defined as an affair from a semantic point of view, but it certainly doesn´t feel that way in spirit, for either uf us. Believe it or not, this man is not constantly whining about his marriage, seeking consolation with me. In fact he was not seeking for anything at all. We were friendly and established a connection  and it would have stayed this way if had had not shared my feelings for him with me. Some of you mention that the wife seems non existant to me. Well, she certainly seems non existant to him, maybe that is where this comes from. He has only spoken about his wife twice in all this time, once when I asked the day I confessed my feelings how she would feel about all this. The second happened after she confronted him. What I know about their relationship I got from these two times, and it amounts to no more than 4 minutes of talk. We are about us, not about her. I´m sure he is currently thinking about them after the shock of her reaction. That is not something he needs to process with me. It´s out of my territory.

 

Anyway, we met yesterday afternoon. After all I read here, I did not contact him. He messaged me and suggested meeting after work ( we are currently working on some big fat project together and we had to come in on a saturday) So we met, and I started our conversation with a very simple question: Is there anything you need to discuss with me about us or about you that you think we should clarify now?. He answered nothing in particular. He just wanted to spend time with me as usual. So we did. We had our amazing usual conversations, and he was as loving and sweet as ever. I did not percieve any ambiguity or mixed signals from him. So I just enjoyed his company. 

We did pick up the sex topic again. We had been discussing it before his wife found out about us. I asked him whether he had a friend he could borrow a place from. He suggested a hotel.  I wouldn´t like to meet at a hotel for sex, it´s too impersonal. He said he had no friends he could ask for this kind of favor,  so I offered to find a place for us. He said he can´t have me over at his house for physical intimacy, which I can totally understand, and I can´t have him over to mine either, so we´ll see what happens.