What just happened? I need your views.

[Pumpernickel]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

I don't understand

Discussions around morals and ethics are not the job of any counselor..

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

  I want him to have direct and free acess to my kids. 

Unfortunately your still much too dependent and personally involved with your husband. Is the divorce final as far as financial and asset division?

Why are you sharing a phone and car and keys to the house?

Obviously he has access to his children legally anyway. Surely he takes them home when he has visitation, no?

Does he live with the woman that he was unfaithful with?

This married man seems like an emotional crutch more than anything else. You seem to be struggling with the divorce financially, emotionally and otherwise if your husband still has keys,uses your phone and you share a car.

[Ha-ha]

4 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

OK, so in all of your talks he omitted this big detail that she wanted him to move out and he didn't know where they stand. It certainly makes his complaint about how she didn't make a fuss about him moving out of the bedroom odd, no? And it also puts a dent in your impression that he is 100% honest with you and also gives more importance to them being intimate again.

OP, I think you have found someone with little insight into himself. This is an area of concern for you as well, and this is precisely why choosing him as your romance for the ages seems like a train wreck. How can he go from "here's a box of condoms, get on the bed!" to "of course we shouldn't have a physical relationship"? Again, you are excited that he feels honest, but his honesty means little if he has no clue what he wants or feels.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. If you continue this with him, you will continue to get contradictory actions and have no idea what to make of them.

From  my catfishing experience, the explanation is clear:  he pivoted himself to align with OP who showed hesitation. OP thinks he's being honest and vulnerable but in reality just being manipulated. For what reason?  To continue the affair, of course. And before arguing that 'my affairs aren’t about sex', yes. Not all affairs are sexual. Ego boostings are fun too!

Edited August 10, 2021 by Berlin

[ExpatInItaly]

7 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

It felt like delivery sex, to be honest "serving the customer on demand". I did not find the situation appealing at all

If you intend on continuing this, you had better get used to the above.

You are still framing this with the unrealistic expectation that it will feel something like normal "dating." It won't. It will feel good for a few fleeting moments and then it will feel mostly like dog-caca. 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

 he put a box of condoms on the table. He said: "I´m ready for this is if you are". 

Well now you know what this is all about. And it doesn't seem like love or respect. Sadly seems more like the encounters he has with escorts.

What's wrong with your place?  Do you still live with your ex-husband?

Supposedly as a "single" parent you can date, no?

[heartwhole2]

I also wonder if his desire to date you in public is because he wanted it to get back to his wife. This is also why he's fine having you come over their house -- it's more likely she'll hear about it or walk in on you. Certainly this has been an effective way to make her interested again.

I'm not saying he's some master manipulator. He didn't know you were going to come into his life and come onto him. Like you, he is flattered and excited to feel wanted. But his using your relationship to triangulate a change with his wife seems pretty clear. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Before we couldn't figure out his behavior because you believed he was confused about her feelings and relying on little clues, rather than having been told precisely where he stands.

The simplest explanation is also that if he wanted to really be with you, he would have told you about the separation request. That would have put your mind at ease, right? But at the same time as he is flattered and excited by your mutual feelings, he is still hedging his bets. He still wants the option of the marriage. And you have been very useful in keeping that option open for him.

He had groceries to bring home when you saw him (he probably bought the condoms there). Was he out of the house "grocery shopping" while he was propositioning you with a box of condoms? A mundane, everyday errand in service of family life, with a quick detour to the love nest you went to all that trouble to arrange.

[glows]

14 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Thank you everyone for your replies. The fact that you care about how this might affect me really moves me, and although it seems to many of you that I have it all figured it out and I do not need your input, it actually makes me consider many things I would not consider without this forum. Therapy is therapy, but my therapist has never been in a situation like this, there are some nuances she just doesn´t get. Same with my friend. Not even me, havng been on the other side of all this as a BW have a clear vision of what things could happen from this side of the story.

Anyway, if things were confusing before, they are more confusing now. I finally got  a place from my good friend for us to meet and have intimacy. I saw very little of him at work today as we were super busy, so I just messaged him the address. Half an hour later he was there. He came in, we hugged, talked a little about our day, and he put a box of condoms on the table. He said: "I´m ready for this is if you are". I do not know why, but before I could actually realise what I was doing, the word NO came ut of my mind. He said: "I understand, but if this is what you want, we can do it". I said no again, this time purposefully. I guess I was dissapointed. It felt like delivery sex, to be honest "serving the customer on demand". I did not find the situation appealing at all, and I did not know what else to say... which is not usual for me...

So that is when he opened up to me: he said it was actually a good thing I did not want sex with him. What we have does not need sex to be intimate. He said he knew I was a good person and he did not want to complicate my life or play with my feelings. He shared that by the time I revealed my feelings to him, his wife had just asked him to move out. He had said no, and he did not know exactly where they were standing either back then or right now. She is still living at home, but he was not sure what was going to happen with them. He said he would not have entertained my feelings if he had not thought that his marriage was over and she was definitely leaving him. That´s why he said she wouldn´t find out or care if she found out. Now it  seems she does care he is utterly shocked and does not know what to do. She is not clear she wants to save the marriage, he isn´t either. But he can see she is struggling with all of this, not eating or sleeping well, sad or angry most of the time, and so he believes it is better if we do not take this step. Not right now, at least. He wants to continue to spend time with me and his feelings for me are very real, but he needs things to slow down a little.

I said I understood, was glad he would share that with me (truly, he seemed 100 % true, it felt like perhaps too much honesty for me) and after a few moments of awkward silence, we hugged very deeply and he left. He was carying groceries. I could see he was going back to his life. It really felt like goodbye in a way.

But then I started thinking, what if I had said YES? How would things have been different? Shouldn´t I have said yes after all? I really can´t make sense of all this...

Has this ever happened to anyone here? Since our story seems to be unfolding by The comprehensive guide to EMR, I hope someone can offer some insight about this if they have experienced it...

 

He’s behaving like a petulant child. His wife essentially kicked him out or told him to leave but he said no. In reaction to his indecision he decides to buy a box of condoms and meet his AP in a private place to have sex with little romance.

He has checked out of his marriage but he’s hanging onto a vague and stubborn idea that he’s still a father or husband meanwhile running around with another woman.

He doesn’t have the balls to leave her because he’s in unfamiliar territory but by not leaving her he is also not able or in the right frame of mind to date you. 

The both of you will continue in this limbo until his wife files for divorce or things worsen because it sounds like she is the only one with enough of a backbone to somewhat stick to her values regarding what a marriage is. She’s already rejected him but he won’t accept it. You are putting your happiness and life into his wife’s hands and praying that she files for divorce. This man doesn’t have it in him to do the right thing, doesn’t seem he ever has.

[mark clemson]

20 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

he put a box of condoms on the table...I did not find the situation appealing at all, and I did not know what else to say... which is not usual for me...

So that is when he opened up to me: he said it was actually a good thing I did not want sex with him. ...  he can see she is struggling with all of this, not eating or sleeping well, sad or angry most of the time, and so he believes it is better if we do not take this step.

I hope someone can offer some insight about this if they have experienced it...

I've never experienced something like what you describe. However, given that his social skills are strong it MAY be that he figured you wouldn't respond well to his actions and was deliberately "sabotaging" the sex aspect for the reasons he later mentioned. That is one among several possibilities.

By the way, there is no "EMR Playbook". You can bet that concept was invented by people who've never actually been in an affair but feel some need to downplay AP's feelings for each other. That said, there certainly appear to be some (several) typical patterns:

- One or both APs are primarily looking for sex

- One or both APs are primarily looking for an emotional connection outside their marriage (appears to be your case)

- One or both APs got drunk and took a transitory attraction way too far

- One or both APs were flirting and ended up taking it way too far

- Two people in regular contact (such as co-workers) develop a friendship and eventually start to have strong romantic feelings for each other

And various permutations of these patterns.

[Iwantthisformyself]

Hello everyone.

I have been reading and thinking about your contributions. Some of them made me laugh ( like in a nice way, the dog caca thing and the idea he might use escorts, in a slightly different way, but still funny.)

I do believe he wants to continue our relashionship in some form... which is not clear yet. 

I have wondered a lot about why he did not tell me his W had asked him to move out. One reason that crossed my mind is that he is ashamed of it. He certainly looked ashamed when he told me. Like he was some sort  of failure. Anyway, it does align with my perception of him of someone who is not the affair type. He certainly was not planning to have me in his life or to have me feel attracted to him, and now I a sure he would have not moved forward with me if he hadn´t been in this situation. I repeat, he is not the affair type. I must confess thinking that he wasn´t and having him fall in love with me any way made me feel flattered in a way. Now his behaviour makes even more sense: he is the honest man I think he is, he was not planning on lying to his wife, he truly believed they were over, he started spending time with me, we fell in love, and now his wife reacts unexpectedly... I do not think he is doing this so she will pay attention to him. In fact, he keeps spending time with me even though she knows we like each other ahd have some sort of romantic interest in one another, although he has mentioned nothing to her about our physical intimacy. We left work together again and spend time together as usual, him being super caring and loving with me, and really open about his feelings.

I do wonder, if she had been so clear that she wanted him to leave, why he simply said we were together when she asked. It would have made perfect sense: you asked me to go, I thought our relationship was over, I started a relationship with someone else I care for. Period. I suppose her reaction took him by surprise and so he did not know what to say. Also, he may have felt guilty. 

I also wonder about her: is she wanted him to leave so badly, why isn´t se breaking up with him now that she knows his heart is with me? Is she in some sort of denial? or is she the infantile type: "I don´t want this toy anymore, but now that you have it, I want it back?"

His carrying groceries yesterday did hurt a bit. But I guess he had to leave the house with some sort of excuse, right? He is not blunt about anything, but his proposition did sound a bit awkward. I truly notice is is about "what I want" all the time for him ( he can certainly read me well) I figure we would have had sex if I had said yes, just to please me, because I desired it or needed it or whatever, but his interest in me is in no way primarily sexual. I do believe he feels for me the way I feel for him.

I do know there is no playbook. I meant that as irony, as I have read here repeatedly the ours is a "textbook affair" I believe we are two people who met each other at a moment in our lives when we were emotionally alone and found fulfillment with each other.

As for my supposed dependency on my ex H, it is certainly not the case. Caring for two kids is not easy, This is the best logistics we could come up with. Assets and visitations have been clearly settled in court, and I have no need of his money, as I inherited from my mum when she passed. It is him who is tighter in terms of money. That´s why he does not own a car ( cars are not cheap here) and we share it. I am NOT buying him a car. And yes, he lives with the woman he cheated with. I had to rent his appartment or he would still be at home. That is my limit. I want a decent house my kids can visit him at. But he´s not getting anything more from me. MM has even pointed out he feels my relationshoip with my ex sounds more caring than his with his five, the way we try to coordinate things, share the car, etc ( they each have their own car and have no clue what each other´s plans for the day are).

For the time being, I am acting just as usual. I joined him for lunch today, visited in his office later ( he coordinates some training so he has open office hours for the trainees), he gave me my usual drive home - with some US time, though less than previous times,  and texted him later to see how he was doing. He changed the tone of his messages a bit, leaning a bit to more "friends" messaging, perhaps he suspects she might snoop into his phone. That would certainly be a horrible thing for her to do, but I respect his choice to sound more like friends in text. I did not mention her at any moment today, and neither did he. I do not want her n our conversations. If he needs to bring her up, he will.

He gave me a book today, about a man and a woman who love each other, who cannot be together because she is married, and there there is a terrible storm and they keeo each other company until it ceases. In the middle of the storm, not knowing what will happen to them, they know they are right where they are supposed to be: with each other. I think it is a perfect metaphor of where we are standing today. It made my cry.. sad but sweet tears. 

[heartwhole2]

Yeah it's classic human psychology to want what you can't have (cough, cough, affairs) so some betrayed spouses react with renewed interest in the cheating spouse. It's a deeply instinctual response borne out of the subconscious fear of your mate abandoning you and threatening your and your offspring's survival. Nature even rewards this instinct with hysterical bonding (google it).

Again, you've deflected and denied the assertion that your ex H is smothering you and crossing boundaries, which we have only focused on because that's precisely how you presented it. And yet again, in your denials, you managed to throw out that he's a deadbeat and you are paying for him to live with the OW, which isn't really convincing anyone that he's a stellar man in a healthy co-parenting relationship. And really, we are here to support you and you are the one suffering from your ex's continued boneheadedness. You don't need to defend him. Why do you think that's your instinct?
 

10 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

he is the honest man I think he is, he was not planning on lying to his wife,

10 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I guess he had to leave the house with some sort of excuse, right? He is not blunt about anything,

I'm having whiplash again from the contradictory statements. He downgraded your texts to just friends so that he can keep his wife as an option but you are pleased that he gave you a book about people who can't be together long term but manage to be together temporarily?

As an aside, I usually take care to have a compassionate tone, but pretzel logic is one of my pet peeves and it triggers me. I hope you can look past any exasperation and see that I am trying to help you avoid pitfalls caused by convincing yourself things that don't make sense. And I suppose my irritation comes from knowing that you want help and that we can help you, but then having the distraction of your continual rebuttals that just don't pass muster.

[BaileyB]

I don’t think you have any idea how much you are projecting your own thoughts/feelings/intentions on this man and his wife. So much so, that you have created quite a love story in your own head… for this man you have been flirting with for a matter of days. 

Two, star crossed lovers who met quite innocently but found a strong and beautiful connection… The hero, a good and faithful man who is unloved and unappreciated by his wife… The wife, who doesn’t want the marriage but refuses to let him go… a near-miss, as our lovers come together and decide that it’s not meant to be - he offers her a book to symbolize the love they share and the sadness as they realize that that life will prevent them from being together…

[basil67]

25 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I have wondered a lot about why he did not tell me his W had asked him to move out.

It's simple.  He doesn't want the marriage to end AND doesn't want to give you any ideas about a future with him.   This is underscored by him having placed you in a friendzone.

 

[MilaVaneela]

7 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t think you have any idea how much you are projecting your own thoughts/feelings/intentions on this man and his wife. So much so, that you have created quite a love story in your own head… for this man you have been flirting with for a matter of days. 

Two, star crossed lovers who met quite innocently but found a strong and beautiful connection… The hero, a good and faithful man who is unloved and unappreciated by his wife… The wife, who doesn’t want the marriage but refuses to let him go… a near-miss, as our lovers come together and decide that it’s not meant to be - he offers her a book to symbolize the love they share and the sadness as they realize that that life will prevent them from being together…

Bailey, you put this into words so beautifully. I was thinking the same thing and couldn’t quite figure out how to express it, but yes. There is a lot of projection going on here, such as: 

 

35 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I also wonder about her: is she wanted him to leave so badly, why isn´t se breaking up with him now that she knows his heart is with me? Is she in some sort of denial? or is she the infantile type: "I don´t want this toy anymore, but now that you have it, I want it back?"

Iwantthisformyself, taking potshots at the wife and casting her (along with their child, the ONLY innocent party in this whole situation) as the villain may serve to help you feel better about it and yourself, but in the end 1) it’s not really helpful. Not really. 2) it’s not going to change the fact that this man has chosen to stay married 3) it makes you look bitter and petty (I noticed your comments seem to indicate that you’re quite image-conscious) and 4) it keeps you in a negative frame of mind and unable to look at the situation clearly. 
 

Leave his wife and child out of this. They are not any of your concern, have not harmed you in any way, and they are certainly not holding this grown man in his 60s hostage. If he truly wanted to end his marriage… he would. 

[spiderowl]

" He came in, we hugged, talked a little about our day, and he put a box of condoms on the table. He said: "I´m ready for this is if you are". I do not know why, but before I could actually realise what I was doing, the word NO came ut of my mind. He said: "I understand, but if this is what you want, we can do it". I said no again, this time purposefully. I guess I was dissapointed. It felt like delivery sex, to be honest "serving the customer on demand". I did not find the situation appealing at all, and I did not know what else to say... which is not usual for me..."

I'm sorry about this, OP.  I am glad you said no.  His behaviour showed disrespect and he was hardly encouraging you. It sounds almost as if he was talking to a greedy, bullying child - "Here, have your sweets if you want them and I hope they make you feel sick!" - except not quite so blunt as that.

Don't you deserve better than a half-relationship with someone who is almost certainly going to stay with his wife?  He likes your attention and friendship but isn't really going for more.

[heartwhole2]

OP, you do deserve credit for how you responded to the condom proposition.

You have good instincts, but then it seems like you talk yourself into overriding them.

[BaileyB]

20 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

OP, you do deserve credit for how you responded to the condom proposition.

You have good instincts, but then it seems like you talk yourself into overriding them.

I feel like the reality didn’t meet the expectation - she basically said it, the whole situation was disappointing, it felt contrived, and it was anything but the romantic fantasy that she imagined…

Quote

I just messaged him the address. Half an hour later he was there. He came in, we hugged, talked a little about our day, and he put a box of condoms on the table. He said: "I´m ready for this is if you are.” I guess I was dissapointed. It felt like delivery sex, to be honest "serving the customer on demand". I did not find the situation appealing at all

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

Yeah it's classic human psychology to want what you can't have (cough, cough, affairs) so some betrayed spouses react with renewed interest in the cheating spouse. It's a deeply instinctual response borne out of the subconscious fear of your mate abandoning you and threatening your and your offspring's survival. Nature even rewards this instinct with hysterical bonding (google it).

I googled it. It is most certainly not happening between them.

Again, you've deflected and denied the assertion that your ex H is smothering you and crossing boundaries, which we have only focused on because that's precisely how you presented it. And yet again, in your denials, you managed to throw out that he's a deadbeat and you are paying for him to live with the OW, which isn't really convincing anyone that he's a stellar man in a healthy co-parenting relationship. And really, we are here to support you and you are the one suffering from your ex's continued boneheadedness. You don't need to defend him. Why do you think that's your instinct?
 

I am not defending him! he is a lousy co parent! I try to create the minimal conditions for my children´s wellbeing. If I was defending anyone, it was me, as it seems it looks like I am still attached to him in some way.

I'm having whiplash again from the contradictory statements. He downgraded your texts to just friends so that he can keep his wife as an option but you are pleased that he gave you a book about people who can't be together long term but manage to be together temporarily?

I am sorry if she is just an option to him... after 24 years of marriage. There must be something serious going on other that our relationship then.

As an aside, I usually take care to have a compassionate tone, but pretzel logic is one of my pet peeves and it triggers me. I hope you can look past any exasperation and see that I am trying to help you avoid pitfalls caused by convincing yourself things that don't make sense. And I suppose my irritation comes from knowing that you want help and that we can help you, but then having the distraction of your continual rebuttals that just don't pass muster.

I actually enjoy your posts, irritation included. You stimulate my thinking and use words cleverly. I am grateful for your contributions.

[Iwantthisformyself]

After giving it much thought I think the very reason the situation was odd was that he did not feel comfortable having intimacy with me in these terms, as I did. I have the feeling he wants it to be different. Like, when he has sorted out his situation, he´s not expected back home, he doesn´t need to lie to meet me ... you get the idea. He is that sort of guy.

[BaileyB]

7 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

After giving it much thought I think the very reason the situation was odd was that he did not feel comfortable having intimacy with me in these terms, as I did. I have the feeling he wants it to be different. Like, when he has sorted out his situation, he´s not expected back home, he doesn´t need to lie to meet me ... you get the idea. He is that sort of guy.

Projection. 

[basil67]

17 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

After giving it much thought I think the very reason the situation was odd was that he did not feel comfortable having intimacy with me in these terms, as I did. I have the feeling he wants it to be different. Like, when he has sorted out his situation, he´s not expected back home, he doesn´t need to lie to meet me ... you get the idea. He is that sort of guy.

Forgive me if I've missed it, but what indication has he given that he wants to leave his marriage?   

[Pumpernickel]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Forgive me if I've missed it, but what indication has he given that he wants to leave his marriage?   

Good question. I don’t see it either. The whole thing started out weird with him being totally passive, actually - and if you look at the whole picture he’s been passive throughout the whole situation. He’s passive with his wife as well. She was the one suggesting a separation if I understand correctly, and that’s when he showed up with a box of condoms? It’s like @Iwantthisformyselfhas been the pursuer all along (Which is nothing new; she “wants this for herself” after all), & he was like meh, and then his W made a decision, and all of a sudden he starts playing along. And not even with a lot of enthusiasm. He sounds like he could go either way. I don’t know - even for just an affair that would be way too little effort for most women. I just see lack of enthusiasm. Not very convincing

Edited August 11, 2021 by Pumpernickel

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I do wonder, if she had been so clear that she wanted him to leave, why he simply said we were together when she asked. It would have made perfect sense: you asked me to go, I thought our relationship was over, I started a relationship with someone else I care for.

Simply put? Because you are not together, and he hasn't started a relationship with you. 

You are vastly over-estimating your role in his life, assigning far too much importance to a few weeks of fooling around. Had you two already been having an affair for several months or years, then yes, I could see why you would think it had more substance. 

But OP, you aren't "with" him. You wouldn't be "with" anyone after a few weeks of messing around, let alone a man who is already married.  This isn't a relationship, which you seem to have difficulty grasping. Not only that but you are quite naive to think he would risk his marriage for a few weeks of illict kissing. What you have with him is just not that significant, so it's completely unrealistic to have expected him to admit it to his wife. He might have done so if you two had been seeing each other for a lot longer, but this is barely a few make-out sessions and some chats. Time to come back down to earth here, OP. 

This is why I asked if you had much dating experience in your life, prior to your own marriage. Your mindset here is that of  a love-struck teenager who thinks the Bad Boy is her bofyriend after a few dates, and she's going all googly-eyed, telling all her friends about him,  and dreaming of a future together based on....almost nothing tangible. 

A serious question, in all sincerity: do you think of him as your boyfriend?

Edited August 11, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I repeat, he is was not the affair type.

Fixed it for you. 

He is the affair type now. 

[heartwhole2]

11 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

After giving it much thought I think the very reason the situation was odd was that he did not feel comfortable having intimacy with me in these terms, as I did. I have the feeling he wants it to be different. Like, when he has sorted out his situation, he´s not expected back home, he doesn´t need to lie to meet me ... you get the idea. He is that sort of guy.

Let's assume you are correct. Why not just say, "Hey, you know how much I want to be intimate with you, but not like this. Let's wait until it's really special. You deserve that."? Your theory is that because he wanted things to be more romantic, he threw a box of condoms on the table in order to scare you off? Remember when I explained that he believes he has no agency and is too afraid of conflict to have difficult conversations, and this is precisely why he has all these problems in his marriage and life?

You have a thesis: what he and I have is true, pure, and rare. You won't accept any other interpretation of facts, so even when he's throwing down a box of condoms in such a startling way that you rejected the physical intimacy you were anxious to have, you twist things around to try to fit your thesis.

We are encouraging you to throw out your thesis and look at the facts on their own. I do think you guys have puppy love going on; I would never say the feelings are fake. But puppy love fits because it's adolescent in many ways . . . based on the excitement of the feelings. You know, I did appreciate your point that if we had to be perfect to have a relationship, no one would ever have one. The issue is that to have a healthy relationship you have to have two healthy people. I don't think this man is malicious in any way, but his conflict avoidance and lack of self-awareness mean your relationship is a big confusing mess . . . at the beginning, when everything should be rainbows and butterflies!

You can't do anything about his issues. You can only figure out your own. Why are you trying to turn this into the love of the ages? Hint: I think that you haven't had a healthy romantic relationship in a long time, if ever, and you don't really know what one looks like. As we've joked, really anyone is an improvement over your ex. I also think you are afraid that no one else will want you -- you've already developed an attachment with a man in a "safe" (i.e. no pressure) environment. And there's a bit of sunk cost here . . . you've already put yourself out there and had it reciprocated.

I would think that a guy who's already been told his marriage is over and is basically living in-house separation would have no qualms about having a relationship with you. All it would take would be one difficult conversation with his wife (hey, let's make this separation official; I know that's what you wanted). But he can't have difficult conversations. So he tries to orchestrate her finding out about you (and even then he lacks the courage to call it a relationship). He tries to orchestrate you rejecting sex. He winds up being manipulative; not because he enjoys toying with people, but because he's spent his whole life avoiding difficult conversations and isn't going to start now.

Trying to guess what your partner wants to say through what he isn't saying is exhausting and doomed to fail. That's why you're here, after all. It's such a puzzle that you wanted help figuring it out. This isn't an issue that is going to be solved by his feelings for you. Actually, we tend to be on our best behavior in the early days of a relationship . . . if anything, his conflict avoidance will worsen with time.

[stillafool]

8 hours ago, Pumpernickel said:

Good question. I don’t see it either. The whole thing started out weird with him being totally passive, actually - and if you look at the whole picture he’s been passive throughout the whole situation. He’s passive with his wife as well. She was the one suggesting a separation if I understand correctly, and that’s when he showed up with a box of condoms? It’s like @Iwantthisformyselfhas been the pursuer all along (Which is nothing new; she “wants this for herself” after all), & he was like meh, and then his W made a decision, and all of a sudden he starts playing along. And not even with a lot of enthusiasm. He sounds like he could go either way. I don’t know - even for just an affair that would be way too little effort for most women. I just see lack of enthusiasm. Not very convincing

I agree.  I've never heard of a guy so lackluster when a woman has basically thrown herself to him.  It sounds like he's yawning at every turn OP makes.