What just happened? I need your views.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, heartwhole2 said:

My questions:
Why does BW need to meet you before they figure out if their marriage is beyond repair?

Very good question. 

One other - why does he want to introduce your children? I mean seriously, that is as ridiculous as introducing his wife and his affair partner. How does it benefit your children to involve them in this situation? 

Edited August 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[basil67]

2 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I agree with the idea in theory, but it somehow feels too simple and idealistic. What if she is angry at me? What if she tells me something horrible? Why would she want to meet me?

The idea is horrible in theory.  She has every right to be angry with you.  She has every right to say something horrible.  And I doubt she'd want to meet the woman who actively came onto her husband.

2 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I also feel it is unfair that just because she changed her mind the last minute about ending her mariage ( and possibily because of my entrance into his life, like some small child who is being stubborn and does not want to let go) we need to forcefully become friends and give up on each other... 

I am also not sure this move would be less harmful...

You're seriously equating someone who's struggling with the future of their marriage and family unit with a stubborn child?   Do you understand that marriage is a much deeper proposition than a cranky kid who doesn't want to have their evening bath?

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're seriously equating someone who's struggling with the future of their marriage and family unit with a stubborn child?

For real. 

I am finding it harder and harder to take this whole story seriously. 

[MilaVaneela]

Again, OP, I say to you:

Leave. His wife. Alone.

She is not the wicked witch, she is not the big bad wolf, and she is not the warden of this man’s personal prison. You keep making catty underhanded comments about her when the truth is YOU inserted yourself into HER marriage and not the other way around. 
 

A 60 year old sound of mind man can make his own life choices and any indecisiveness with regards to his marriage or living situation is of his own doing, not “Evil Wife Monster’s”. Fixating on his wife and how horrible she supposedly is, isn’t productive and won’t make him leave her any faster, if at all. 

[heartwhole2]

OP can you take some vacation time? I think you need a break away from MM. Whether he's married to someone else or not, a single person shouldn't be half of your total emotional support. I think it would benefit you to lean into some friendships, maybe ones that you've let slide a little or ones that haven't gone deep but show potential. Or heck, just take a vacation with your children and have some fun. But give yourself some physical and emotional distance from all of this. This was supposed to be an escape from the drama with your exH, not eclipse it.

Honestly if you can walk away before having sex and after only a month of whatever we can call this, you will save yourself so much future agony. You wanted this to be fun and empowering, right? You wanted sex, right? Are you getting any of that? If you want a penpal who tells you nice things, I've heard guys in prison are really good for that. If you want the good stuff that comes from a real relationship, well that's not on offer right now. Save yourself the humiliation of whatever this experiment with his wife is. If you step back, he can always call it quits on his marriage and pick back up with you.

I tried to explain the power that his wife has in the triangle before we even knew about all the omissions and weirdness. How does it serve you to start a relationship that depends on the reactions of a woman who probably despises you? That's not going to give you the empowerment you're seeking. And if it was going to go smoothly and land your way, well, you wouldn't be in this mess. You deserve more than being used as an aphrodisiac in someone else's marriage.

[vla1120]

23 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He says we are not to blame for our falling in love, and there is nothing morally wrong in that, adn although we have crossed some boundaries, we have done nothing unforgivable or too harmful for anybody yet.

Huh? Of COURSE the two of you are to blame for "falling in love" and yes there IS something morally wrong in that. Again...didn't you divorce your husband because he cheated on you? I don't get the double standard, here.

If this is how you really feel, why didn't you just stay with your husband? Maybe an open marriage would have worked for the two of you. It's something you seem to be open to, now.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, vla1120 said:

Huh? Of COURSE the two of you are to blame for "falling in love" and yes there IS something morally wrong in that. Again...didn't you divorce your husband because he cheated on you? I don't get the double standard, here.

If this is how you really feel, why didn't you just stay with your husband? Maybe an open marriage would have worked for the two of you. It's something you seem to be open to, now.

Well, falling in love is not on purpose, right? It it not something you to to hurt someone, it happens ... I did not leave my husband because he cheated, in fact, I gave him a whole year for him to end his affair and come clean, which he did not do. I was not and am not open to an open marriage.

[BaileyB]

Just now, Iwantthisformyself said:

I was not and am not open to an open marriage.

And yet, that is exactly what you expect from his spouse. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

21 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

OP can you take some vacation time? I think you need a break away from MM. Whether he's married to someone else or not, a single person shouldn't be half of your total emotional support. I think it would benefit you to lean into some friendships, maybe ones that you've let slide a little or ones that haven't gone deep but show potential. Or heck, just take a vacation with your children and have some fun. But give yourself some physical and emotional distance from all of this. This was supposed to be an escape from the drama with your exH, not eclipse it.

Honestly if you can walk away before having sex and after only a month of whatever we can call this, you will save yourself so much future agony. You wanted this to be fun and empowering, right? You wanted sex, right? Are you getting any of that? If you want a penpal who tells you nice things, I've heard guys in prison are really good for that. If you want the good stuff that comes from a real relationship, well that's not on offer right now. Save yourself the humiliation of whatever this experiment with his wife is. If you step back, he can always call it quits on his marriage and pick back up with you.

I tried to explain the power that his wife has in the triangle before we even knew about all the omissions and weirdness. How does it serve you to start a relationship that depends on the reactions of a woman who probably despises you? That's not going to give you the empowerment you're seeking. And if it was going to go smoothly and land your way, well, you wouldn't be in this mess. You deserve more than being used as an aphrodisiac in someone else's marriage.

There is no way I can get away from my life now. I do have "friends" that I meet regularly, though. But those connections are superficial. I don´t want to take physical or emotional distance from him now. I feel if I do he will fall back into his resignation and stay in his marriage out of obligation, pity or whatever. I am willing to fight for our relationship. Plus, I miss him terribly when I don´t see him. I am not sure I will meet the wife. I do not think she will despise me, though. He hasn´t been completely transparen to her about us. Why would I be an aphrosidiac in their marriage? Their relationship hasn´t improved and they are not being intimate any more, after his confession to me it just stopped.

[Iwantthisformyself]

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

And yet, that is exactly what you expect from his spouse. 

Well, no. I actually never considered the possibility of them being in an open marriage. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

22 hours ago, MilaVaneela said:

Again, OP, I say to you:

Leave. His wife. Alone.

She is not the wicked witch, she is not the big bad wolf, and she is not the warden of this man’s personal prison. You keep making catty underhanded comments about her when the truth is YOU inserted yourself into HER marriage and not the other way around. 
 

A 60 year old sound of mind man can make his own life choices and any indecisiveness with regards to his marriage or living situation is of his own doing, not “Evil Wife Monster’s”. Fixating on his wife and how horrible she supposedly is, isn’t productive and won’t make him leave her any faster, if at all. 

I know she is not evil. There must be something good in her if he has spent 24 years of his life with her. I do not consider I inserted myself in her marriage. I started a relationship with him outside their marriage, which he consents to enthusiastically and wants to protect. I do not believe I am fixating on her. In fact, I do not think about her much, only when he brings her up, and it is not that much. He doesn´t even mention her by name! He always says "my wife" and I also refer to her as "your wife". 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Iwantthisformyself

[Iwantthisformyself]

22 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

For real. 

I am finding it harder and harder to take this whole story seriously. 

Well, she was ready for him to leave, then she heard about us and she hasn´t asked him to leave again, or left herself. If she doesn´t want him, why can´t she let him be happy with me?

[Iwantthisformyself]

21 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I tried to explain the power that his wife has in the triangle before we even knew about all the omissions and weirdness. How does it serve you to start a relationship that depends on the reactions of a woman who probably despises you? That's not going to give you the empowerment you're seeking. And if it was going to go smoothly and land your way, well, you wouldn't be in this mess. You deserve more than being used as an aphrodisiac in someone else's marriage.

I do not see how she has any power in this. She has power only in the sense that she is the mother of their child. Thair marriage has been dead for a long time. I sometimes think he has pity for her...

[Iwantthisformyself]

22 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Very good question. 

One other - why does he want to introduce your children? I mean seriously, that is as ridiculous as introducing his wife and his affair partner. How does it benefit your children to involve them in this situation? 

I´m not sure I want to involve my kids. I guess he wants them to be involved because he genuinely believes the two families could work out some sort of friendship.

[Iwantthisformyself]

Well, so I haven´t seen him today. He had to teach a seminar in a location different from our office, so we did not meet at work. In the afternoon, I waited for him to call me or something, but he didn´t, so I texted him. It was a bit awkward, actually. I texted hello and he replied with some very simple messages about work and the seminar being boring. I shared about my busy day and he said he though I'd be tired, and that was it. I´m not seeing him tomorrow either. He works from home on fridays. I already miss him so much. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Iwantthisformyself

[ExpatInItaly]

10 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Well, she was ready for him to leave, then she heard about us and she hasn´t asked him to leave again, or left herself. If she doesn´t want him, why can´t she let him be happy with me?

Because he doesn't want to leave her, either. And certanly not for someone he's only played around with for a few weeks. 

You need a huge reality check. You are not as important to him as you think. 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

22 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I am willing to fight for our relationship.

You are not in a relationship with him. 

[Starswillshine]

A lot of "he says" going on here...

[glows]

24 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Well, so I haven´t seen him today. He had to teach a seminar in a location different from our office, so we did not meet at work. In the afternoon, I waited for him to call me or something, but he didn´t, so I texted him. It was a bit awkward, actually. I texted hello and he replied with some very simple messages about work and the seminar being boring. I shared about my busy day and he said he though I'd be tired, and that was it. I´m not seeing him tomorrow either. He works from home on fridays. I already miss him so much. 

So when do you see him next? Imagine years going by where you’re on the sidelines and he doesn’t leave his wife and you have him part time. Is this sustainable? 

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

It was a bit awkward, actually.

It’s awkward, for sure, when the married man you propositioned doesn’t respond to your advances. 

[BaileyB]

32 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I guess he wants them to be involved because he genuinely believes the two families could work out some sort of friendship.

It’s the modern version of the Brady bunch - two affair partners, and their spouses, and all their kids… 

[stillafool]

33 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I shared about my busy day and he said he though I'd be tired, and that was it. I´m not seeing him tomorrow either. He works from home on fridays. I already miss him so much. 

So he's tired and going home to his wife to rest, eat and probably have sex for the next 3 days.  Yeah this must be really awkward for you OP.  

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, stillafool said:

So he's tired and going home to his wife to rest, eat and probably have sex for the next 3 days.  Yeah this must be really awkward for you OP.  

Especially considering that she considers herself to be his “primary attachment person.” 

Quote

My perspective is the opposite: lots of feelings and a little logic.

Perhaps you could use the time this weekend OP to come down from the clouds… use the distance to consider the situation with a little less emotion, and a lot more logic. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by BaileyB

[heartwhole2]

22 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I feel if I do he will fall back into his resignation and stay in his marriage out of obligation, pity or whatever.

Points for being honest here. I see a lot of OW skirt around this truth. But . . . why do you want to be with someone who has to be reminded, cajoled, or led into choosing you? It's not a solid, pure love of the ages if he won't pick you if you disappear for a bit.

In these triangulation scenarios the person with the least power wants to flip the script and be the one who gets to decide to take the MM or leave him. And yeah that's an understandable instinct, but it doesn't serve you well to expect power in a structure that has been designed without any for you. I remember feeling this instinct on DDay when I found out my husband was having an affair. I felt like, well screw that, I'm not going to be some chump waiting to be picked. I'm going to make him want to be with me and then decide if I still want him. I totally understand why you want to be the person with the choices. But you've been friend-zoned with nice words and an invitation to be BFFs with him and his wife. And honestly, showing him that you will put up with anything as long as you can have him in your life is unlikely to make him ditch his wife and choose you.

22 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He doesn´t even mention her by name! He always says "my wife" and I also refer to her as "your wife". 

This just means that his betrayal feels less real when he pretends he's married to an inanimate object and not a person.

19 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I do not see how she has any power in this. She has power only in the sense that she is the mother of their child. Thair marriage has been dead for a long time. I sometimes think he has pity for her...

Remember how he said he wants to see if they can repair their marriage and if they can, then you two have to be just friends? She's his first choice. If she puts in effort, then you don't get the option to have the kind of relationship that you want with him.

The reality of his being distant today and not seeing him tomorrow is overwhelming you, but stay strong. Remember, this has been a sexless romantic entanglement of one month with someone who has sent really mixed signals. This isn't a basket to put all your eggs into.

Remember:
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when she asked the first time.
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when you confessed your feelings.
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when she asked about you.
If he wanted to leave, he could leave today.

Remember:
He omits key facts; he's not transparent with you.
He goes to great lengths to get other people to respond how he wants rather than having a simple conversation.
Just the mere mention of you made him and his wife fall into bed together.
He has turned down sex with you in case he can save his marriage.

It really can't be overstated that he's turned down sex with you when he and his wife don't even seem to like each other. I have never heard of this happening. It's not like he has a sweet, loving, unsuspecting wife at home. He has a lady who wants him to leave. And he still would rather have a platonic relationship with you.

It is foolish to put your heart in the hands of someone whose words are nice but whose actions say "he's just not that into you." You are going to get your heart broken to a million pieces. You have some ass kicking instincts . . . remember how you divorced your ex's cheating ass? Remember how you turned down the quickie while the groceries melted? A lady who knows her worth is in there . . . she just needs a little coaxing to come out.

[mimic2021]

56 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

Well, so I haven´t seen him today. He had to teach a seminar in a location different from our office, so we did not meet at work. In the afternoon, I waited for him to call me or something, but he didn´t, so I texted him. It was a bit awkward, actually. I texted hello and he replied with some very simple messages about work and the seminar being boring. I shared about my busy day and he said he though I'd be tired, and that was it. I´m not seeing him tomorrow either. He works from home on fridays. I already miss him so much. 

OP, can you give yourself a reality check? Many other posters have already given you some advice and tried to create perspective for you. 

Where’s the meta level with your situation? It seems like you are fleeing into the fantasy of the both of you. BUT, I kind of understand where you are coming from. 

The MM I was involved with always shifted between being incredibly nice, kind and loving to complete apathy. What you told us about him gifting you the book about love and then not properly talking to you today doesn’t sound healthy. Someone mentioned that what I experienced back then was called „Intermittend Re-Inforcement“. It’s when someone’s actions and then lack thereof trigger you that much that you become addicted. He doesn’t sound too nice to be honest …

I think you need to take a step back and assess the situation rationally. Buuuuut, since you are currently experiencing what many of us have experienced after getting involved with a MM (heavy DENIAL), I will give you a blueprint of what’s (highly/most likely) going to happen:

You won’t listen to us. You will read these comments and think that it’s very different, that your story is different, that you and him are not like that. But you will sense all along that something is wrong, some things don’t add up, you don’t feel happy or „in love“. He’s not there for you and with you. 

But you still continue to make it work. You will have intense feelings of all sorts, you will be confused at times, there will be hurt, you will beat yourself up and think that something is wrong with you. Why can’t you make this man commit to you? This will be a rollercoaster ride of emotions. Buckle up and put on a helmet, this ride can take either weeks, months or years.

Then either 1) he „breaks up“ with you or 2) you have enough and leave him alone. What then happens is the worst phase. Since you thought that the two of you were meant for each other you come to the realisation that you two were in fact not meant for each other. That’s when your self esteem will take a huge drop. You will feel abandoned, lonely, you will think that you‘re the worst human being on earth, unlovable and not enough. What if I would have done things differently? What if I just would be good enough? There’s embarrassment, you feel humiliated and undignified.

You feel empty and depleted. And you feel hurt like you’ve never felt hurt before. BECAUSE you come to understand that you were hurt all along and that you didn’t feel good for a while. All of a sudden you will think about all the situations where you’ve been rejected similarly. You will think about past abuse, horrible people in your life, your childhood and so on. Things haven’t been good for a while. The hurt you feel in this phase is not about this man. This is ALL THE HURT that resurfaces. 

Then you start your healing journey. At the end of this journey you will look back on this specific man and see him for what he exactly is: a lying cheating conflict avoiding self-centered clown. The guy you’re talking to isn’t even a clown, he‘s the whole circus. 

And ideally, after getting on your healing journey, you will understand that love looks different. And you will seek healthy love because everything else doesn’t make sense to you anymore. And occasionally come back to this forum and give people in similar situations advice. You‘ll think back about your MM, laugh and think „oh, they’re all the same“ and „I really understand what the OP is going through but he/she can’t listen because they are in denial“

Hope it helps!