What just happened? I need your views.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Because he doesn't want to leave her, either. And certanly not for someone he's only played around with for a few weeks. 

You need a huge reality check. You are not as important to him as you think. 

 

He doesn´t want to live separated from his kid. We have fallen in love, not fooled around. We can both tell the difference... I know I am important to him: the way he looks at me, his tone of voice, the intimate conversations he does not have with anyone else... It´s impossible to communicate everything that happens when we are together.

He is simply living with a woman who is functionally and legally his wife, whom he does not love anymore.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

A lot of "he says" going on here...

I haven´t seen his marriage first hand, I know what he tells me, and I believe him.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, glows said:

So when do you see him next? Imagine years going by where you’re on the sidelines and he doesn’t leave his wife and you have him part time. Is this sustainable? 

I suppose we will find a way. Right now I am feeling anxious about his idea that our families should be friends. I do not know what to make of it. Under normal circumstances I feel ok when we do not have contact daily. I feel him with me, and so does he. He thinks about me all the time and wants to talk to me all the time.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You are not in a relationship with him. 

It´s not a relationship in conventional terms, I understand that. But it is a deeply caring relationship.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

So he's tired and going home to his wife to rest, eat and probably have sex for the next 3 days.  Yeah this must be really awkward for you OP.  

They are not having sex. He felt like he was betraying me when they did so he stopped that.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

It’s the modern version of the Brady bunch - two affair partners, and their spouses, and all their kids… 

I honestly have no idea what that would look like. But I am considerying giving it a try if it the only way to avoid breaking contact with him... for the time being.

[heartwhole2]

9 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

They are not having sex. He felt like he was betraying me when they did so he stopped that.

Until he confesses that they have again . . .

You're not there. They're trying to see if anything is there between them. You could barely get a reply this afternoon; is he distancing himself because he feels guilty?

[Iwantthisformyself]

37 minutes ago, mimic2021 said:

OP, can you give yourself a reality check? Many other posters have already given you some advice and tried to create perspective for you. 

Where’s the meta level with your situation? It seems like you are fleeing into the fantasy of the both of you. BUT, I kind of understand where you are coming from. 

The MM I was involved with always shifted between being incredibly nice, kind and loving to complete apathy. What you told us about him gifting you the book about love and then not properly talking to you today doesn’t sound healthy. Someone mentioned that what I experienced back then was called „Intermittend Re-Inforcement“. It’s when someone’s actions and then lack thereof trigger you that much that you become addicted. He doesn’t sound too nice to be honest …

I think you need to take a step back and assess the situation rationally. Buuuuut, since you are currently experiencing what many of us have experienced after getting involved with a MM (heavy DENIAL), I will give you a blueprint of what’s (highly/most likely) going to happen:

You won’t listen to us. You will read these comments and think that it’s very different, that your story is different, that you and him are not like that. But you will sense all along that something is wrong, some things don’t add up, you don’t feel happy or „in love“. He’s not there for you and with you. 

But you still continue to make it work. You will have intense feelings of all sorts, you will be confused at times, there will be hurt, you will beat yourself up and think that something is wrong with you. Why can’t you make this man commit to you? This will be a rollercoaster ride of emotions. Buckle up and put on a helmet, this ride can take either weeks, months or years.

Then either 1) he „breaks up“ with you or 2) you have enough and leave him alone. What then happens is the worst phase. Since you thought that the two of you were meant for each other you come to the realisation that you two were in fact not meant for each other. That’s when your self esteem will take a huge drop. You will feel abandoned, lonely, you will think that you‘re the worst human being on earth, unlovable and not enough. What if I would have done things differently? What if I just would be good enough? There’s embarrassment, you feel humiliated and undignified.

You feel empty and depleted. And you feel hurt like you’ve never felt hurt before. BECAUSE you come to understand that you were hurt all along and that you didn’t feel good for a while. All of a sudden you will think about all the situations where you’ve been rejected similarly. You will think about past abuse, horrible people in your life, your childhood and so on. Things haven’t been good for a while. The hurt you feel in this phase is not about this man. This is ALL THE HURT that resurfaces. 

Then you start your healing journey. At the end of this journey you will look back on this specific man and see him for what he exactly is: a lying cheating conflict avoiding self-centered clown. The guy you’re talking to isn’t even a clown, he‘s the whole circus. 

And ideally, after getting on your healing journey, you will understand that love looks different. And you will seek healthy love because everything else doesn’t make sense to you anymore. And occasionally come back to this forum and give people in similar situations advice. You‘ll think back about your MM, laugh and think „oh, they’re all the same“ and „I really understand what the OP is going through but he/she can’t listen because they are in denial“

Hope it helps!

Thank you for sharing your journey with me. I am sorry you had to go through that, as I know exactly how it feels. I experienced it when my own ex H cheated on me and did not even bother stop his affair to try to save our marriage, or admit that he was having one.

I felt rejected, insignificant, humilliated and everything you described. Everyone here says the wife has some sort of power in the triangle. My experience was the complete opposite. He continued his affair for a year. Nothing I did (swett or angry, physical or verbal )would make him stop. Not even our children knowing about it. When I gave him an ultimatum and told him to stop or I´d file for divorce, he simply told me to do what I thought was necessary. I filed and still he wouldn´t leave. I had to rent an apartment for him because he kept making silly excuses: no apartment was good enough. He finally left, and lives there with the OW.

Now tell me again that a wife can stop a EMR, that if he still lives with her it´s because he still wants her or their marriage. That if he goes back home evey day it´s because he is choosing his marriage. That they must surely be having intimacy. I know better.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 minute ago, heartwhole2 said:

Until he confesses that they have again . . .

You're not there. They're trying to see if anything is there between them. You could barely get a reply this afternoon; is he distancing himself because he feels guilty?

I´m sure he feels guilty and trying to do the right thing rather than the GOOD thing (good for himself and good for us) I can walk that path with him if he wants to give it a try. I know it will not work out in the end. Our feelings are too real for them to be able to fix their marriage.

[Iwantthisformyself]

1 hour ago, heartwhole2 said:

Points for being honest here. I see a lot of OW skirt around this truth. But . . . why do you want to be with someone who has to be reminded, cajoled, or led into choosing you? It's not a solid, pure love of the ages if he won't pick you if you disappear for a bit.

In these triangulation scenarios the person with the least power wants to flip the script and be the one who gets to decide to take the MM or leave him. And yeah that's an understandable instinct, but it doesn't serve you well to expect power in a structure that has been designed without any for you. I remember feeling this instinct on DDay when I found out my husband was having an affair. I felt like, well screw that, I'm not going to be some chump waiting to be picked. I'm going to make him want to be with me and then decide if I still want him. I totally understand why you want to be the person with the choices. But you've been friend-zoned with nice words and an invitation to be BFFs with him and his wife. And honestly, showing him that you will put up with anything as long as you can have him in your life is unlikely to make him ditch his wife and choose you.

This just means that his betrayal feels less real when he pretends he's married to an inanimate object and not a person.

Remember how he said he wants to see if they can repair their marriage and if they can, then you two have to be just friends? She's his first choice. If she puts in effort, then you don't get the option to have the kind of relationship that you want with him.

The reality of his being distant today and not seeing him tomorrow is overwhelming you, but stay strong. Remember, this has been a sexless romantic entanglement of one month with someone who has sent really mixed signals. This isn't a basket to put all your eggs into.

Remember:
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when she asked the first time.
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when you confessed your feelings.
If he wanted to leave, he could have left when she asked about you.
If he wanted to leave, he could leave today.

Remember:
He omits key facts; he's not transparent with you.
He goes to great lengths to get other people to respond how he wants rather than having a simple conversation.
Just the mere mention of you made him and his wife fall into bed together.
He has turned down sex with you in case he can save his marriage.

It really can't be overstated that he's turned down sex with you when he and his wife don't even seem to like each other. I have never heard of this happening. It's not like he has a sweet, loving, unsuspecting wife at home. He has a lady who wants him to leave. And he still would rather have a platonic relationship with you.

It is foolish to put your heart in the hands of someone whose words are nice but whose actions say "he's just not that into you." You are going to get your heart broken to a million pieces. You have some ass kicking instincts . . . remember how you divorced your ex's cheating ass? Remember how you turned down the quickie while the groceries melted? A lady who knows her worth is in there . . . she just needs a little coaxing to come out.

I believe because he´s not out of his relationship in every sense ( he is still materrially and logistically attached to his wife)  he remains a bit passive, but I feel he is with me because he wants it as much as I do. 

The invitation to try to switch to friends for a while is due to guilt so she has time to process that it is over, and does not need to leave so hurt ( he´d rather have his wife leave because things were bad between them than because of us) I understand that and believe it is very considerate on his part.

Also, he didn´t exactly turned down sex with me. He just proposed it weakly - guilt again_ and I turned it down. I actually value that he does not want to get into bed with me in the middle of this mess. He wants it to be just us, without complications.

I get how all those details can come accross as if he were "not that into me" or "intermmiten reinforcement" or whatever, but I feel he is trying to find a caring way to change the situation until his wife can accept that it is over. 

"A lady who knows her worth is in there . . . she just needs a little coaxing to come out." 

I know. Thank you for your encouragement. I truly value that.

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

They are not having sex. He felt like he was betraying me when they did so he stopped that.

Sure they did…

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I honestly have no idea what that would look like. But I am considerying giving it a try if it the only way to avoid breaking contact with him... for the time being.

I will ask you again OP - and I’m sincerely asking - how will your children benefit from becoming involved in this dysfunctional family “friendship” with their mother’s affair partner and his family? 

Edited August 12, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

My experience was the complete opposite. He continued his affair for a year. Nothing I did (swett or angry, physical or verbal )would make him stop. Not even our children knowing about it. When I gave him an ultimatum and told him to stop or I´d file for divorce, he simply told me to do what I thought was necessary. I had to rent an apartment for him. He finally left, and lives there with the OW.

Your husband chose his affair partner. 

Quote

She asked him if he was in a relationshp with someone and he said it was not clear: he was spending time with someone but he could not call that a relationship. He also said he had had sex with her twice after months since their talk about us. He also said that she had cried when he told her and he was not expecting that at all, it took him completely by surprise and he didn´t want to hurt her.  He said he had invited me over to his house because as our relationship was so ambiguous and we had been seeing each other for so little time,  he thought we could lean towards a friendship more than an affair.

Your affair partner has chosen his wife. I’m sorry, there is a big difference here. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

36 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

They are not having sex. He felt like he was betraying me when they did so he stopped that.

Trust me if she gets into their bed with him half naked he's going to go for it just like he did before.  The fact that she now knows about you has sent her into competition mode and she is probably amping up everything.  Including cooking his favorite meals, looking extra pretty when he comes home and above all really bringing out her sex game.  The worse thing that could happen for you is that she is now aware that you want.   She's going to remind him of why he picked her to be his wife.

[heartwhole2]

There aren't great statistics on affairs because people tend to lie on surveys, but Shirley Glass did the most highly respected research on this area (she used anonymous surveys in airports to help people feel they would not be exposed by answering). The statistics I've seen are:

1/3 of marriages experience infidelity
About 70% of those remain together (I've seen those couples further broken down into a transformative reconciliation/a general rugsweeping without doing any work/and an acrimonious relationship)
30% divorce
10% end with the affair partners in an exclusive relationship in the end. A third of those marry, and those that do have a 75% divorce rate, making the affair partner long-term success rate around 1%.

All this is to say, I would not base my understanding of what generally happens after an affair on your ex. He sounds like a special ball of wax. I suspect there's more you could share about his dysfunctions that would help us see just how not average he is.

And as BailyB points out, you are not following that mold anyway. If you were, MM would be clinging stubbornly to you come hell or high water.

Remember, he has not said, "Just give me time. We'll be together in the end." He's said, "Yeah, having sex isn't that important. And we could be friends instead. Here, meet my wife . . ."

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

Remember, he has not said, "Just give me time. We'll be together in the end." He's said, "Yeah, having sex isn't that important. And we could be friends instead. Here, meet my wife . . ."

This is not a good sign for any relationship…

3 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

All this is to say, I would not base my understanding of what generally happens after an affair on your ex. He sounds like a special ball of wax.

He certainly does… and, if you chose him and stayed to try to make it work for a year then it’s pretty easy to see why you have swung the opposite direction OP (that’s got to be pretty soul and self esteem destroying). And as they say around here, your picker is definitely off. 

Thanks for the stats heartwhole, very interesting. I know one person who is part of that 1%, and her relationship is nothing like this relationship. I know several who are among the other 99%…

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I will ask you again OP - and I’m sincerely asking - how will your children benefit from becoming involved in this dysfunctional family “friendship” with their mother’s affair partner and his family? 

My children do not know the background of it all. I´m considering meeting the wife somewhere public, like the park, as he suggested, and making it look as if we had met by accident to my kids. Then, we´ll see how it goes...

Edited August 13, 2021 by Iwantthisformyself

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Your husband chose his affair partner. 

Your affair partner has chosen his wife. I’m sorry, there is a big difference here. 

My MM hasn´t chosen her at all. He´s trying to land the plane in the middle of a storm so the marriage does not end tragically.

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, stillafool said:

Trust me if she gets into their bed with him half naked he's going to go for it just like he did before.  The fact that she now knows about you has sent her into competition mode and she is probably amping up everything.  Including cooking his favorite meals, looking extra pretty when he comes home and above all really bringing out her sex game.  The worse thing that could happen for you is that she is now aware that you want.   She's going to remind him of why he picked her to be his wife.

They do not sleep together. Thay haven' t for months. It would be ridiculous for her to start playing top model or cooking his favourite dishes after having asked him to leave a month and a half ago. It would be too obvious for him she is trying to manipulate him because she knows he is in love with someone else. For all I know, it would take tremendous pretending abilities to do that. I just went into desperation mode during my ex H´s affair. I could not find my sex goddess or kitchen goddess at all...

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

If you were, MM would be clinging stubbornly to you come hell or high water.

Remember, he has not said, "Just give me time. We'll be together in the end." He's said, "Yeah, having sex isn't that important. And we could be friends instead. Here, meet my wife . . ."

The way I see it, he´s trying to end his marriage in the least harmful way possible, and also trying to respect my feelings. That´s why he´s not making any promises to me ( he knows very well I´ve been hurt enough) and he´s not just leaving rightaway. He´s giving her time to process and accept the fact that their marriage is over. She knows about me, so he believes our meeting can help her calm down a bit and think more clearly. She seems te believe we are plotting our escape, or I´m asking him to leave her all the time, or something, so he wants her to see that it is not the case. 

[Iwantthisformyself]

2 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

He sounds like a special ball of wax.

You know what? He seemed a pretty decent guy for the first 14 years of our marriage. He was completely transformed during his affair, and still hasn´t got his sanity back...

[mark clemson]

A few thoughts:

- Some men find the step of a PA outside of marriage a much greater boundary than a "connection" and behave accordingly

- I think (like many seem to) that the idea of all hanging out together as families is misguided if he is thinking this will help things substantially, I suspect it's likely to backfire

- He may be one of those types who has an unconscious instinct for "pushing people's buttons"; he (I think) managed to postpone sex with you until he is fully comfortable with it - POSSIBLY this getting together plan is a way to push his wife into carrying out her threat to leave; that way he doesn't have to be "the bad guy" WRT ending the marriage

- That said, I still think there's no guarantee he's going anywhere - I suspect he's still trying to figure out what he really wants

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

My children do not know the background of it all. I´m considering meeting the wife somewhere public, like the park, as he suggested, and making it look as if we had met by accident to my kids. Then, we´ll see how it goes...

Indeed… your husband’s affair partner met you in the park with your children - how would that have gone? 

[glows]

 

4 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

I suppose we will find a way. Right now I am feeling anxious about his idea that our families should be friends. I do not know what to make of it. Under normal circumstances I feel ok when we do not have contact daily. I feel him with me, and so does he. He thinks about me all the time and wants to talk to me all the time.

He’s trying to create as uncomfortable a situation for her as possible so that she divorces him. The irony is that she told him to leave awhile ago now but he refuses. I think your main concern(if I were in your place) is that he never leaves OR if he does, he will also cheat on you some time from now and orchestrate the very same thing he’s capable of doing to his wife - under the circumstances that the marriage/relationship is no longer viable. 

I think you are reliving the past and the breakdown of your marriage in reverse as a form of comfort. Maybe it’s one of those things you have to see to the end in order to realize what it all meant.

Edited August 13, 2021 by glows

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, Iwantthisformyself said:

He doesn´t want to live separated from his kid. 

That's ok. Most affairs don't end in anyone really leaving anyone anyway.

Why? Because then you are in the same humdrum boat and the thrill of the sneaking around and deception are gone.

The fun of the affair is all the fantasy talk about leaving the "roommate" spouse and riding off into the sunset with your soulmate.

However the fantasy would be over if that actually ever happened. Because then the lover would become the humdrum spouse.