Is it bad to not care about what other people think?

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, ironpony said:

Well one of the biggest cost concerns is insurance and permits.  Perhaps I need to hire an entertainment lawyer, to figure out what cracks there are to squeeze through if any, but the lawyer will cost money too though, and I am no expert in finding legal loopholes.

Add the cost of a lawyer to your business plan

[elaine567]

Seems to me the stuff you can't do yourself, will cost an arm and a leg and will chew through 20K in an instant.
You seem clueless about so many aspects,  are you not the film maker here?
Should you not KNOW the answers to the questions you keep posing to the posters on here?
No-one here has any professional qualifications in film-making, yet you as the supposed expert, keep asking US what to do.
Surely there must be forums for amateur/professional filmmakers that can answer your questions more directly.
As a non expert it sounds madness to me to attempt to make a feature film for 20k.
Bad movies that fail, cost literally millions to make.
Why would your low budget movie succeed in a highly competitive world?
Every man and their dog is capable of making a film today.

What you have is a pipe dream.
Fine if you have 20K to burn, fine if Mommy and Daddy were funding it, but you are in a ultra low paid temporary job, living with your ageing parents. Parents IIRC who do not own their own home.
At any moment you may need that 20K to put a roof over your head...
Get real.
If film making is your passion and you are a proven good and reliable worker in one aspect of the movie business, others will want to hire you.
That is your best bet.
BUT hoping to be a director on the back of one low budget movie,  is a step too far for you, IMO.

 

[Taramere]

4 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

I would say if you make it a year on your own with no major issues, then talk to your parents and ask for advice on purchasing a home.

You need to let go of this movie making idea until you have proven you have the skills to handle life's day to day issues/problems.

Did you read the post written by @basil67??  You really need some basic life skills and problem solving abilities before you attempt to tackle a HUGE project like making a movie.

Yeah I mean really....if a person has any hope of being successful in something as difficult, competitive and connections-requiring as making movies, they're not going to be sitting on a message board asking other people basic questions that they could, with a bit of effort and research on google, get the answers to.  Then again, iron pony is a master at delegating tasks, in his own way.  Whether it's a style of delegation that would be transferrable to something like movie making is another matter.

Iron Pony.  Maybe you should watch Steve Martin's "Bowfinger".  That might give you a few ideas for getting your movie made.

[ironpony]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Seems to me the stuff you can't do yourself, will cost an arm and a leg and will chew through 20K in an instant.
You seem clueless about so many aspects,  are you not the film maker here?
Should you not KNOW the answers to the questions you keep posing to the posters on here?
No-one here has any professional qualifications in film-making, yet you as the supposed expert, keep asking US what to do.
Surely there must be forums for amateur/professional filmmakers that can answer your questions more directly.
As a non expert it sounds madness to me to attempt to make a feature film for 20k.
Bad movies that fail, cost literally millions to make.
Why would your low budget movie succeed in a highly competitive world?
Every man and their dog is capable of making a film today.

What you have is a pipe dream.
Fine if you have 20K to burn, fine if Mommy and Daddy were funding it, but you are in a ultra low paid temporary job, living with your ageing parents. Parents IIRC who do not own their own home.
At any moment you may need that 20K to put a roof over your head...
Get real.
If film making is your passion and you are a proven good and reliable worker in one aspect of the movie business, others will want to hire you.
That is your best bet.
BUT hoping to be a director on the back of one low budget movie,  is a step too far for you, IMO.

 

I don't understand this part though because you talk about how difficult it is to make a movie, but then you say every man and his dog can make one. Isn't that contradictory if making a movie is difficult?

As for others wanting to hire me, don't have to get something bigger out there first to show off? Other filmmakers have had to do as well.

[elaine567]

18 minutes ago, ironpony said:

I don't understand this part though because you talk about how difficult it is to make a movie, but then you say every man and his dog can make one. Isn't that contradictory if making a movie is difficult?

As for others wanting to hire me, don't have to get something bigger out there first to show off? Other filmmakers have had to do as well.

Making a feature film as a solo project is difficult if you are going to do it to a professional standard, but the market is already saturated with "films" from all sorts.
Getting noticed enough to actually make some money or even to just return your investment is going to be hard to do.
I think your chances of landing a job as a director or similar is about nil. Your previous YouTube efforts were NOT successful and you seem unwilling to make more videos. Jumping off the deep end when you can hardly swim is a very bad idea.
I thought you were into sound/audio, you need to concentrate on that or some similar job in filmmaking and forget about being a director.
Your knowledge of the subject is so obviously lacking. 

[ironpony]

Well I wanted to be a director much more than audio.  I have done audio to get my foot in the door.  I could make more shorts, but wanted to spend my money on a feature and not more shorts, if I could do the feature.

I am just not sure what else to do besides jump off the deep end, because I do not have the luxery to keep spending money on shorts, and therefore am forced to grab the bull by the horns to speak in life, but am willing to do that, if that's all I can do.

[elaine567]

Well you need to get yourself better organised and more clued up then, otherwise you might as well take a match to your 20K...

BTW I did a very quick Google on an entertainment lawyer - 5-6K per film project in 2015, so I guess more now.
A quarter of your budget gone at best...

[ironpony]

Well I could just make the movie with no legal attorneys advising, or no permits, or insurance and hope that it will still be sought after for distribution when it's over, even though I avoided those things, if that's technically still the best way to make it for that budget?

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, ironpony said:

Well I could just make the movie with no legal attorneys advising, or no permits, or insurance and hope that it will still be sought after for distribution when it's over, even though I avoided those things, if that's technically still the best way to make it for that budget?

How would we know?
That is your job to find out what is the best thing to do..

[Happy Lemming]

44 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

BTW I did a very quick Google on an entertainment lawyer - 5-6K per film project in 2015, so I guess more now.
 

Every time I call my "Real Estate" lawyer about drawing up any type of financing arrangement documents, it is $2,500 US (minimum).

Money well spent, but lawyers can get costly.

I dare say your estimate of $5K-$6K seems a bit low.

[elaine567]

10 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Every time I call my "Real Estate" lawyer about drawing up any type of financing arrangement documents, it is $2,500 US (minimum).

Money well spent, but lawyers can get costly.

I dare say your estimate of $5K-$6K seems a bit low.

I think so too, but it was on a forum that invited such lawyers to give ball park figures for a small film project so perhaps they were trying to drum up trade. The real invoices could have ended up a lot higher
It was also 6 years ago.

[Miss Spider]

15 hours ago, ironpony said:

Well one of the biggest cost concerns is insurance and permits.  Perhaps I need to hire an entertainment lawyer, to figure out what cracks there are to squeeze through if any, but the lawyer will cost money too though, and I am no expert in finding legal loopholes.

You should probably shoot gorilla your first time. Know your city’s laws, but maybe shoot at a friend’s house that’s really nice or something. Maybe look into the cost of a short term permit if you really have to. 

 

You want to cut as many corners as you can the first time. E.g. I am a painter just getting my name out there. I don’t like to skimp on the quality of my canvas and paint since that is a priority for me, however I go to Goodwill and build my own frames, I also don’t do huge paintings because it’s more $ including the cost of shipment etc. I think you should be thinking along the same lines . 

 

It’s clear that no one here knows anything about this. Most people  hear “feature film“ and they think paramount pictures, $$, and big dreams. But remember, you were talking to people who come here to get or deal relationship advice. I don’t come here for advice on pharmacy when I’m in school. I keep it far away. Use a more apt resource. 
 

You’re not likely not going to hit it big with your first film. You’re most likely not going to get a big distributor, big talent, big name, big money, big festivals,  etc . As long as you recognize that and get that you want to be a filmmaker and like making films, you make them. Just like a painter paints. Is your goal to make a film that paves the way to a second, better film or do you feel you truly have what it takes both in skill and concept to create something successful the first time out 

 

You need to do way more planning and research and that includes who you need to hire to do research. We have the internet now 
 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[ironpony]

I can go completely gorilla, it's just I was told by a filmmaker that doing that will hugely dicrease the movie's selling ability, because most distributors will not want to touch a movie, that cut legal corners, because that means it could be a liability for them though, if that's correct.

[Miss Spider]

21 minutes ago, ironpony said:

I can go completely gorilla, it's just I was told by a filmmaker that doing that will hugely dicrease the movie's selling ability, because most distributors will not want to touch a movie, that cut legal corners, because that means it could be a liability for them though, if that's correct.

If that’s your biggest goal, probably, since you asked an expert . Maybe you can cut those scenes and remake later  if it is really that sellable.  We don’t really know here . Keeping doing research and ask more  people who do 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[basil67]

9 hours ago, ironpony said:

Well I could just make the movie with no legal attorneys advising, or no permits, or insurance....

And if someone gets seriously injured on set, gets a lawyer and makes a big claim on you, what will you do?

[basil67]

10 hours ago, ironpony said:

I am just not sure what else to do besides jump off the deep end, 

And again, the alternative to jumping off the deep end is research, plan and budget.   When you know how to make this work, then it will be time to start.

 

[ironpony]

Well I am not sure how to make it work.  People tell me to shoot it cheap but they also say to get  a lawyer to handle the legal side.  I can't have my cake and eat it too of course.

Edited August 29, 2021 by ironpony

[basil67]

11 minutes ago, ironpony said:

Well I am not sure how to make it work.  People tell me to shoot it cheap but they also say to get  a lawyer to handle the legal side.  I can't have my cake and eat it too of course.

People are telling you to cut corners on production costs.  They are not telling you to put yourself at risk legally.  

Perhaps you’re at the point of realising that you simply can’t do it for the budget you have. 

[ironpony]

Well people have pointed out how other filmmakers have done it, I just don't know how they did it.  I could still hire the entertainment lawyer, even if it's a good chunk and just try to devide the rest between everything else perhaps.

[Happy Lemming]

It appears we are in another "error loop".  You ask for advice, we give it, @basil67 took the time to  provide you with appropriate data & numbers. You want to dismiss it and say you have friends that have made a movie for $20K or less.

And we go round and round and round...

If these "friends" have made a movie for $20K or less, sold it and made a profit, shouldn't you be talking to them.

 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ironpony said:

Well people have pointed out how other filmmakers have done it, I just don't know how they did it.  I could still hire the entertainment lawyer, even if it's a good chunk and just try to devide the rest between everything else perhaps.

This is not a plan which will lead to any type of success

Edited August 29, 2021 by basil67

[ironpony]

Oh okay, what would be better than if I left legalities out of it?

[Happy Lemming]

7 hours ago, ironpony said:

Oh okay, what would be better than if I left legalities out of it?

At this point, I would go through all your past threads where you asked questions about movie production, sales & marketing of a movie, insurance requirements, legal complications, permits, actors, salaries of staff, equipment required, etc. etc. write them all down. Then ask your friends that completed their movies (and made a profit) for the answers to these questions.

As @basil67 pointed out (up thread), we are randoms without these specific skills or knowledge of the movie making industry in Canada.

Unless someone on this forum is an attorney/lawyer in Canada, I don't think any of us are qualified to dispense "legal" advice.  I know, I am not.

As I previously mentioned, there are times in my life where I sought the advice of a competent attorney to take care of matters I was not qualified to handle.  I do remember one instance -- where I financed a house and an issue came up a year later.  I didn't panic, I called my attorney that did the paperwork and described the situation.  My attorney told me the mortgagor (borrower) had no clue what he was talking about, that I was in the right, with nothing to worry about, and the loan agreement was "rock solid".  I went home that night and slept like a baby... no worries whatsoever.  For me, when it comes to legal matters, I leave it to the experts.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Happy Lemming
spelling

[clia]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:25 AM, ironpony said:

I wanted to be a director so I tried learning to be a director.  I didn't think I was starting out in another positon, waiting for someone else to 'promote' me.

But I don't think most directors jump right into directing -- at least not a feature film.  Most work in the industry at other jobs, learn, network, and use that work experience as a stepping stone to get to directing feature films.   

I decided to Google some directors to see what they did.  Here's a sample:

Christopher Nolan:  script reader, camera operator, directed corporate videos, made three short films, made and scrapped a feature film, then made Following for $6k, which allowed him to make Memento

David Fincher:  visual effects producer, assistant cameraman, matte photographer, directed television commercials and music videos, which led to him being chosen to direct Alien 3

Quentin Tarantino:  production assistant, acting, screenwriting, which led to Reservoir Dogs

Paul Thomas Anderson:  production assistant, spent $10k to make a short film that was shown at Sundance and ultimately led to feature film and then Hard Eight

Guillermo del Toro:  made 10 short films, worked as a special effects costume designer

Ryan Coogler:  directed 4 short films while in film school, which led to feature film

Coen brothers:  production assistant, film editing

Kevin Smith:  wrote and directed Clerks for $28k, which was screened at Sundance

Doing what you want to do may very well be doable -- but you really do not seem to have the knowledge base or connections to do it.  THAT is why your family is discouraging you.  We've been telling you here for years that you need to work in the industry (i.e., move to Vancouver), start out with short films, and/or make some kind of a plan.  But it really doesn't seem like you've made any progress.  You keep coming back and talking about making a film, but don't seem to have any knowledge as to how to make that happen.  THAT is the kind of stuff you would LEARN if you worked in the industry. 

[clia]

On 8/28/2021 at 9:32 AM, ironpony said:

I don't understand this part though because you talk about how difficult it is to make a movie, but then you say every man and his dog can make one. Isn't that contradictory if making a movie is difficult?

As for others wanting to hire me, don't have to get something bigger out there first to show off? Other filmmakers have had to do as well.

I can write a script, cast my friends, film it on my iPhone, and post it on You Tube.  That doesn't mean it's any good or that it's going to be screened at Sundance. 

But that's essentially what Kevin Smith did with Clerks, minus the part about posting it on You Tube.  He did manage to get it screened at Sundance, but I don't remember how.  But he wrote a straightforward script that didn't have a lot of characters, was hugely dialogue based, didn't need special effects, and could be filmed primarily in one location, which happened to be where he was working at the time.  That's how you keep a budget low and make a feature film for $28k.