15-year-old daughter wants to visit her mom who's in jail

[B7000]

Would allowing my 15-year-old daughter to visit her mom who will be in jail for 7 months for check fraud be a bad idea even if they have a good relationship since then she will see the inside of a jail and prisoners? Not to mention her mom in a jumpsuit. My daughter would like to go and seems enthusiastic and my wife says bring her if she wants but I’m not sure

 

Actually my daughter does not seem scared but instead seems excited and enthusiastic to visit. This is strange to me. Do you find this normal? My daughter seems to find the idea of her mom having to wearing a uniform, sharing a room funny. I wonder why she would think it is funny. My wife says bring her if she would like to and my daughter says she would like to but I don't know if it is a good idea. She hasn't gone yet so we can still discuss it together.

Edited August 13, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Shorten lengthy title

[basil67]

I can't see a downside of taking your daughter to see her mom.   If they both want to see each other, then support it. 

[glows]

Are you concerned that she'll turn out like her mother or also engage in fraudulent activities or become desensitized to that environment? This might have something to do with a reluctance for your daughter to associate with her mother at all but you know you can't keep mother from child and vice versa indefinitely. She will grow up and figure things out on her own and reconnect with her mother. Keep a close eye on her. If she's raised right, she won't go down that path.

[B7000]

45 minutes ago, glows said:

Are you concerned that she'll turn out like her mother or also engage in fraudulent activities or become desensitized to that environment? This might have something to do with a reluctance for your daughter to associate with her mother at all but you know you can't keep mother from child and vice versa indefinitely. She will grow up and figure things out on her own and reconnect with her mother. Keep a close eye on her. If she's raised right, she won't go down that path.

More just the environment, seeing other inmates and guards, mom in a jumpsuit etc 

[basil67]

Yes, she might get a shock.  But I believe it's unwise to wrap our kids in cotton wool. 

[d0nnivain]

Your daughter is not a baby.  She knows mom is in jail but mom is still mom.  Let your daughter go.  But talk to her about how she feels afterwards.  

[salparadise]

I wouldn't be concerned about her seeing the environment. She would certainly have an idea of what to expect. My thought would be about what the mother will have to say. If she's contrite and wants to provide lessons in ethics and integrity, then yes. But if she thinks the only thing she did wrong was getting caught, and what she did doesn't justify jail time, then no. 

I wonder if your daughter acting like it's funny is a defensive tactic to avoid dealing with the shame and embarrassment? I hope you daughter is a principled person already. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by salparadise

[B7000]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

I wouldn't be concerned about her seeing the environment. She would certainly have an idea of what to expect. My thought would be about what the mother will have to say. If she's contrite and wants to provide lessons in ethics and integrity, then yes. But if she thinks the only thing she did wrong was getting caught, and what she did doesn't justify jail time, then no. 

I wonder if your daughter acting like it's funny is a defensive tactic to avoid dealing with the shame and embarrassment? I hope you daughter is a principled person already. 

My wife is the former and won’t defend what she did 

 

 

 

I do think my daughter finds it amusing to see her mom, an authority figure, get in trouble and have to follow her own rules, and do “jail” things. Even though she gets along with her. I guess there is also an excitement to seeing the inside of a jail without being an inmate there

[Blind-Sided]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

I can't see a downside of taking your daughter to see her mom.   If they both want to see each other, then support it. 

Yep.  You will be in a visiting section.  There is no issues with that.

[Lotsgoingon]

Far from a bad idea, it's an absolutely wonderful idea to allow--even encourage--her to visit her mom in prison.

In fact, it would be a TERRIBLE idea to block her from visiting her mother. You want her to hate you the rest of your life? You want her to think people outside of jail are judgmental, arrogant jerks? Well if so, then block her from going to see her mom.  

Right now your daughter is involved in a fundamental existential battle: how to accept and love and be loved by a parent who did something really bad in the eyes of the law.  Literally, almost biologically, kids can't just dismiss a parent. Keeping her away from her mother will only block the process daughter is engaged in to both accept the person and to not excuse the behavior. And that's where she needs to land. 

I've seen interviews with sons and daughters of people who are on death row--and some of these children (usually adults by the time parent is about to be executed) want to meet with their parents, and it's important and healthy for them to do so. (Not all want to visit, but those who do almost always report something good out of the encounter.) And btw: these kids (now adults) usually end up here:  My mom/dad did a terrible thing, and belongs in jail.  But I love my mom/dad. I will always love them. She's/he's my mom/dad. And that's the healthy place for a kid to be and by "kid" I simply mean son or daughter. 

Your daughter's mom is most likely going to "mother" her on these visits. Parents can parent us even if they have done horrible things. They can listen. They can hug. They can make us feel important. They can smile at us in ways that make us feel valued and accepted, make us feel we are worthy of existence. They can ask about school and boys, give little bits of advice. This mom will likely want to steer daughter away from trouble. 

Now if you find that her mother is asking her to do bad stuff on the outside, then yes, you can talk to daughter about this. But most likely her mother is going to be on her best behavior.  Kids have a drive to be close to parents. And parents, even those in jail, have a drive to connect with their children.  In one of the documentaries I mentioned earlier, a daughter goes to visit her killer dad (who killed her mom and pretty much tortured her while growing up) a few days before dad was to be executed. Daughter supported the execution, but she also wanted to see her dad.  She still loved him, despite all the abuse and the murder of her mom. There is a photo in the documentary of the dad giving the daughter a hug. Blew me away. It was like a hug the best parent might give a daughter. You could see the daughter melt in the hug just like any kid takes in a hug from a parent. Killer dad was actually constructively parenting daughter on the eve of his execution. 

Had the daughter not visited her dad, she would be in much worse emotional shape right now, with all kinds of regrets and questions. 

And don't forget this: your daughter, whether she visits mom or not, thinks of her mom and the reality of her mom in prison EVERY DAY-- and many hours of every day. She probably gets teased by kids. Experiences all kinds of awkward embarrassing moments when people ask about her mom.  So there is no choice here between having her think about her mom or not think about her mom. The choice is contact vs non-contact. 

And assuming mom wants to see her, contact will likely to be overwhelmingly good for you daughter. 

Blocking daughter will only create shame. She'll feel bad about her mom with nothing good from these encounters to hold onto. We now know that shame might control us some in the short term, but it unleashes a poison that always comes back to destroy and undermine us. Allowing and encouraging her to go see mom will help your daughter avoid shame about her mom and about herself. And ironically, she'll be more likely to avoid trouble. 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[B7000]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Far from a bad idea, it's an absolutely wonderful idea to allow--even encourage--her to visit her mom in prison.

In fact, it would be a TERRIBLE idea to block her from visiting her mother. You want her to hate you the rest of your life? You want her to think people outside of jail are judgmental, arrogant jerks? Well if so, then block her from going to see her mom.  

Right now your daughter is involved in a fundamental existential battle: how to accept and love and be loved by a parent who did something really bad in the eyes of the law.  Literally, almost biologically, kids can't just dismiss a parent. Keeping her away from her mother will only block the process daughter is engaged in to both accept the person and to not excuse the behavior. And that's where she needs to land. 

I've seen interviews with sons and daughters of people who are on death row--and some of these children (usually adults by the time parent is about to be executed) want to meet with their parents, and it's important and healthy for them to do so. (Not all want to visit, but those who do almost always report something good out of the encounter.) And btw: these kids (now adults) usually end up here:  My mom/dad did a terrible thing, and belongs in jail.  But I love my mom/dad. I will always love them. She's/he's my mom/dad. And that's the healthy place for a kid to be and by "kid" I simply mean son or daughter. 

Your daughter's mom is most likely going to "mother" her on these visits. Parents can parent us even if they have done horrible things. They can listen. They can hug. They can make us feel important. They can smile at us in ways that make us feel valued and accepted, make us feel we are worthy of existence. They can ask about school and boys, give little bits of advice. This mom will likely want to steer daughter away from trouble. 

Now if you find that her mother is asking her to do bad stuff on the outside, then yes, you can talk to daughter about this. But most likely her mother is going to be on her best behavior.  Kids have a drive to be close to parents. And parents, even those in jail, have a drive to connect with their children.  In one of the documentaries I mentioned earlier, a daughter goes to visit her killer dad (who killed her mom and pretty much tortured her while growing up) a few days before dad was to be executed. Daughter supported the execution, but she also wanted to see her dad.  She still loved him, despite all the abuse and the murder of her mom. There is a photo in the documentary of the dad giving the daughter a hug. Blew me away. It was like a hug the best parent might give a daughter. You could see the daughter melt in the hug just like any kid takes in a hug from a parent. Killer dad was actually constructively parenting daughter on the eve of his execution. 

Had the daughter not visited her dad, she would be in much worse emotional shape right now, with all kinds of regrets and questions. 

And don't forget this: your daughter, whether she visits mom or not, thinks of her mom and the reality of her mom in prison EVERY DAY-- and many hours of every day. She probably gets teased by kids. Experiences all kinds of awkward embarrassing moments when people ask about her mom.  So there is no choice here between having her think about her mom or not think about her mom. The choice is contact vs non-contact. 

And assuming mom wants to see her, contact will likely to be overwhelmingly good for you daughter. 

Blocking daughter will only create shame. She'll feel bad about her mom with nothing good from these encounters to hold onto. We now know that shame might control us some in the short term, but it unleashes a poison that always comes back to destroy and undermine us. Allowing and encouraging her to go see mom will help your daughter avoid shame about her mom and about herself. And ironically, she'll be more likely to avoid trouble. 

 

main problem I have is she will see her mom in a jail jumpsuit and see guards and other inmates that could be intimidating. Is that ok for a 15 year old to see' Actually my daughter does not seem scared but instead seems excited and enthusiastic to visit. This is strange to me. Do you find this normal' My daughter seems to find the idea of her mom having to wearing a uniform, sharing a room funny. I wonder why she would think it is funny. here is the surprising part. My daughter actually wants to go and visit which is surprising since I thought it would be scary for her but she actually seems enthusiastic about visiting I also talked to my wife about it and she says bring her if she wants to. I am also surprised about that because I thought she would flat out say no but the most surprising was a corrections officer that works there I talked to, she said that since my daughter is a teenagers it is perfectly fine to take her. She also said use it as a learning experience (what does that mean do you think), ask your wife to be honest about what happened, and to simply present it as a punishment for wrong doing. What do you think about That. You could the guard probably wants to scare kids though She hasn't gone yet so we can still discuss it together

[ShyViolet]

I don't think you have a right to stop a teenager from visiting her own mother.  Let her go.  She's old enough to make that choice.  Yes, a prison is a bad environment, but this is the reality of where her mother is.  We shouldn't shield kids from the reality of the world.  They will find out sooner or later.

23 minutes ago, B7000 said:

Actually my daughter does not seem scared but instead seems excited and enthusiastic to visit. This is strange to me. Do you find this normal' My daughter seems to find the idea of her mom having to wearing a uniform, sharing a room funny. I wonder why she would think it is funny. 

I strongly suspect that once she goes and actually visits, she won't find it so funny anymore.  Right now she's completely naive about it and humor is her way of processing it and dealing with it.  I'm sure deep down there are other emotions.

[Lotsgoingon]

 

When is the last time someone didn't go see their mom because the neighborhood was scary?

I gotta be blunt: you're thinking like a ten-year-old--compared to your 15-year-old daughter. What does "scary" got to do with wanting to see your mom?! Do you understand the fundamental importance of the parent-child bond? Do you get that you (her father) could do something really dumb and harmful and still your daughter would want to see you? Not just want to see you, but she would need to see you. As in she'd be psychologically damaged if she doesn't go see you. 

I'm not sure you're getting this. The desire to see moms isn't optional--some cute thing. It's fundamental. 

My brother worked in criminal justice and took me to jail as a teenager.  More odd than scary. I once spent a night in jail (long dumb story). A friend of mine volunteered to teach a class in prison. I went to her class. Again, more odd than scary at a jail. Actually the jail visit wasn't scary at all. There are guards all around, and visitors aren't interacting with groups of inmates/jailees. I also went to a state prison for an education program with people convicted of all kinds of crimes. Scary as in the word "scary" goes through the brain, but no, not scary. This program had been going on for a dozen years. 

I once spent an afternoon with a sheriff walking down the hall of an overcrowded jail. People came and banged on the glass doors of their cells--in a deliberate effort to rattle me. Sure, a moment of fear. But then some laughter almost. But if I had been a visitor, the whole routine and ritual is scripted to protect the civilian and to make sure the inmate can do no harm. 

Maybe you need to go with daughter to get a sense of what it's like for a visitor. The danger of prisons/jails is for the prisoners living amongst other prisoners. Visitors are incredibly protected and confined. And there's a whole complicated ritual of going to get an inmate to allow them to come meet a visitor. 

I think you've let the horror stories about what inmates to through hugely distort what it's like to be a visitor at a prison or jail. It's not dangerous. 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

Have you been there as a visitor yet? You seem to have more trepidation than your daughter does.

Go alone first to quell your own anxiety.

As long as both mother and daughter are fine with it, take your daughter to see her.

[B7000]

And there is no doubt my daughter will want to ask her mom questions about what it is like to share a cell and if she has to take showers with other people. Is that appropriate for a 15 year old?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, B7000 said:

And there is no doubt my daughter will want to ask her mom questions...

So? Let her ask. Is there a reason you want to sever the mother-daughter relationship?

[Lotsgoingon]

6 hours ago, B7000 said:

And there is no doubt my daughter will want to ask her mom questions about what it is like to share a cell and if she has to take showers with other people. Is that appropriate for a 15 year old?

Humans have shared rooms for our entire history as a species. What the heck are worrying about here? 

You ever been to high school or junior high? People on athletic teams take group showers all the time. Athletic teams, from high school to pro millionaire-level shower together every day after every practice and after every game.

I'm a member of a really nice gym. The showers are group showers ... posh places and modest places. It's fine. 

Anyway group showers is the LAST thing that will be on your daughter's mind. She will want to talk to her mom about school, friends, life and all of that. 

 

[d0nnivain]

Prison / jail has been glamourized by the movies & popular culture.  At present your daughter still thinks this is a lark.  

That said, do not separate mother & daughter.   Let mom go do her time.  You go alone for the 1st visit & get the lay of the land.  Learn the procedures etc.   Next visit you take your daughter to see her mom.   Let her ask whatever Qs she may have.  

[ShyViolet]

8 hours ago, B7000 said:

And there is no doubt my daughter will want to ask her mom questions about what it is like to share a cell and if she has to take showers with other people. Is that appropriate for a 15 year old?

Whatever questions the daughter asks her mother, that is between them.  It's up to the mother to answer those questions however she sees fit.  It's not really your place to get in the middle of it.

[B7000]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Humans have shared rooms for our entire history as a species. What the heck are worrying about here? 

You ever been to high school or junior high? People on athletic teams take group showers all the time. Athletic teams, from high school to pro millionaire-level shower together every day after every practice and after every game.

I'm a member of a really nice gym. The showers are group showers ... posh places and modest places. It's fine. 

Anyway group showers is the LAST thing that will be on your daughter's mind. She will want to talk to her mom about school, friends, life and all of that. 

 

Just feels like it would be awkward to talk about. My daughter definitely wants to ask her mom about the sordid details of jail life and those type of things (the cells, showers, other inmates etc)

[ShyViolet]

1 minute ago, B7000 said:

Just feels like it would be awkward to talk about. My daughter definitely wants to ask her mom about the sordid details of jail life and those type of things (the cells, showers, other inmates etc)

I'm not sure why you feel that this is something you can control.  You can't.  She's going to ask, and her mother is going to just have to deal with that and answer her questions in a child-appropriate way that doesn't shield her from the reality of the situation but also doesn't give too much information.  It's not your place to control or referee the conversation between them.  Your place is to deal with your daughter afterwards, to talk with her about it if she wants to talk about it, and to support her through this.  Not to bar her from visiting.  That's not ok.

[Lotsgoingon]

Of course your daughter thinks she'll ask about all these things. 

Here's what her mom is going to do: her mom will give her the absolute basics, and change the subject to something else. But some of that info is actually important for the daughter to learn. I mean, your daughter knows what your living situation looks like. She needs to understand her mom's situation. If this avenue is blocked, it will mess her up psychologically because she'll become MORE obsessed with missing her mom.

Focus on the big picture: humans (99 percent of the time) need connection to their parents. Period. 

Repeat that brother. You're getting lost on unimportant stuff.  You want your daughter to grow up a healthy young woman, back off of all your stuff. All these worries about titillating stuff is YOUR issue. BTW: there are support groups out there for people who have parents in jail. There are probably online groups out there and there are tons of articles. Maybe do some reading on kids visiting parents in jail. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[glows]

On 8/15/2021 at 8:22 AM, B7000 said:

Just feels like it would be awkward to talk about. My daughter definitely wants to ask her mom about the sordid details of jail life and those type of things (the cells, showers, other inmates etc)

Whether it's now or later she will find out either on her own, through her mother's experiences or through others. All your concerns are perfectly valid as her father. She has to learn eventually.

[B7000]

I am likely going to take her. I have heard some say  it’s a bad idea because it might be too frightening for a 15 year old and seeing someone you know in jail could my daughter think it is “not that bad”. Wonder what people think 

[d0nnivain]

You are going to take her.  That is the important thing.  

As I said you go to the 1st visit alone, to scope out the lay of the land & to learn the routine.  Then you take her but you are right there for her, as much as the facility & Covid allow.  You support her.  You answer her Qs.  You hold her if she later has nightmares.   

If possible in advance you work out with the mom how she will answer any nosy Qs.  There's no need for mom to tell the brutal unfiltered truth but an age appropriate response is called for about how you  lose your privacy & your dignity.  Daughter doesn't need the specifics about a body cavity search etc.