What is friendship really about?

[ZA Dater]

This may appear a stupid question but maybe I am totally wrong with my view on friendship?

For me a friend is someone who actually takes an interest in you, you take an interest in them, share interests and help each other out with advice and so on. I'd like to believe friendship not really about taking but more about sharing.

Yes I am stuck in a rather transactional world but am I totally wrong with the above, when you get excluded from things and included in others when its someone you have been friends with with for 20 odd years you do tend to wonder if that loyalty is perhaps miss placed?

 

[Blind-Sided]

Yes... friends share experiences, and help with advice or support.   BUT... there are different levels of friends.

1) Close friend.  This is the person who you hang out with most of the time.  This is the person who you call first when you feel bad.  This is the person who you invite to your weekend BBQ or Bday party. 

2) Distant friend. This is the person who you may have been close to at one time, but because life gets in the way... you don't live close anymore.  BUT, you visit where they live... and your interactions are like you were never apart. 

3) Side friend. This is the "Friend of a Friend" who you may call on if you need something specific. (your neighbors will fall into this category)

4) Situational Friend.  This is the person you you are good friends with... but maybe because of a club.  You don't hang out with this person... but you may wind up at their house to help with an activity that is club related.

Since you are talking about being friends for 20 years... I'm assuming you are an adult.  (LOL)  and I'm not 100% sure what triggered this...  but at a certain point in your life... you shouldn't expect to be invited to everything that a close friend may do.  What I mean is... lets say your buddy goes to a local amusement park, and you also like to go there.  And you find out he went with someone else.  Well... maybe he didn't invite you because he wanted the group to stay small?  Or, he knows you don't get along with the other person in the group.  OR... maybe it's for another reason.  Not to sound mean... but I had a buddy who would always be short on cash.  So we would go to an amusement park, and he would buy his ticket.  But once in side... we would have to give him cash for food.  Or maybe they want to ride all the rollercoasters, and he knows you don't like them.  (or something else that would mess up the day for him) 

OK... with all that said... if you have a friend who is one sided... then it's time to separate yourself from that person. I've done this a bunch of times in my life.  

If you are a little more specific... it would be easier to help. 

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes I am stuck in a rather transactional world but am I totally wrong with the above, when you get excluded from things and included in others when its someone you have been friends with with for 20 odd years you do tend to wonder if that loyalty is perhaps miss placed?

What are you being excluded from?

But to answer your question - it's being there for each other when the chips are down, shared experiences, common interests, mutual respect, common values, always having each other's best interest at heart. But also the ability to say "look, you're being an a**hat" instead of just fluffing each other up with, well, fluff. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Alpaca

[glows]

That person might have thought you're not interested in a particular event. Don't read too much into it unless you know the specifics. I suggest you talk to your friend and ask about the event you were excluded from and show some interest. 

[basil67]

I agree with what's already been written here about how there are different degrees of friendships.   There are loads of diagrams and descriptions online - I would have shared one for you but most seem to be linked to commercial entities, and so I can't do so.  Even then, these are only indicative so view them as a guide, not as a rule. 

But in my own words, and with consideration to what @Blind-Sided wrote, here are my descriptions:

1. Intimate friend.  We share thoughts and feelings, hang out together, have fun together and really understand how the other thinks and feels and offer each other support.  I have two, though both friendships are in a state of flux because the life situations have changed for both and as such, so has the dynamic of the friendship.  

2. Distanced friend.  Again, I have two.  Both are women who I went to school with.  We drifted apart for a while, but then found each other again.  We now meet for a catch up about 3x per year and it's like we were never apart.   We generally don't do activities with each other, just meet for dinners together.

3. Situational friend: I have many of these.  They range from women I craft with, to friends of my intimate friends, to the women who the wives of my husband's mates.  And not forgetting the neighbours who I chat with and share ingredients with.  We get on well, and help each other out, but we don't share intimate details of our lives and we generally don't do stuff together 1:1. 

4. Warm acquaintance: Someone who's name I know and have a friendly chat with, but aren't close with.  Shopkeepers and school mums/dads

5. Acquaintance:  Someone I say 'hi' to but don't really have a connection with. This includes Facebook acquaintances

Note: with all of these friendships, I would not automatically expect an invitation to do each thing with them.  We each spend time with other friends and do stuff with them too.   And as an introvert, I don't want to spend too much time socialising anyway.

So with regards to your friend, what category would your friendship with him fall into?  And could it be that you consider him a closer friend than what he considers you to be?  

[ShyViolet]

One of the things I really hate is when people define a friendship by the length of time they've been friends with the person.  Just because you've been friends 20 years, that doesn't mean that it's a close friendship now.  People drift apart.  Judge the friendship based on how the person treats you NOW, not based on how long you have been friends with them.  It might be the case that the friendship has run its course or you no longer have as much in common as you used to.

[LuckyM]

Good question goes back to ancient times. To me friends have obligations to each other. Acquaintances do not and don't care to. Be cautious with people who act very friendly you hardly know. Much so called friendship is an act a facade and you don't know what they are thinking.I learned not to expect too much from any friend especially when you need help Suddenly they are busy and may not follow through. Females put more effort into their same sex friendships. If your friend repeatedly does not invite you or doesn't answer your calls then reevaluate them. like stocks. Up down or staying the same. Will you invest more or less time or sell out? I hate the insincere type the most

[glows]

I probably have a fluid view of friendships as people change over time and should be given that space to evolve, change and find new friendships. I'm not really interested in being joined at the hip with anyone and am comfortable moving in different groups. I like individuals who respect others' views even though they may disagree - politically, personally, professionally or ethically, whatever it is. For that reason I'm comfortable with longer term relationships that weave in and out, with no false pretenses or difficult expectations or assumptions. I don't fault anyone for not catching up for a year or so for example because they have toddlers or health issues or because they prefer to sort themselves out. Likewise, it's appreciated when I'm understood in the same way. People have lives outside of whatever you may think or assume so it's best not to. Mind your own business and be a friend if help/support is needed. Keep things simple is generally how I like to live.

 

[czanclus]

I could not agree more. Lately, I've been suffering a rather painful also 20+ years long friendship deterioration due to reasons you specify about exclusion and, in my case at least, in the most insensitive disrespectful manner of all - neglect to confirm plans and pretending none were made. I feel like I'm making enough compromises in life as is. Close friendships should really not feel so one-sided and forced. I am growing seriously tired of it. If plans are changed for whatever reason, even if a better company claimed the time, the baseline decent thing to do is to follow up to let me know. Supposedly I wasn't worth a text, let alone a phone call. Pity party aside, my birthday is coming up in 2 days, I am moving into a new more spacious condo, it's time for a change. Ditch the extra weight. If you have to remind people that you matter, you don't matter. Self-love and self-care... Good luck in the next stage.

[Foxhall]

Yes with male friendships anyway Id have two requirements that are important,

that they will be prepared to meet you at least a few times per year- speaking personally this might be playing golf, going to horse racing event or going for a drink perhaps,

If they are prepared to meet a few times a year as described- I view them as a friend,

 

Other type might be one living a distance away- but will be there for a chat if a person needs bit of a boost or something or needs to talk over something that is bothering them.

Its not an easy one at times- I always feel there is a degree of "using other" in a lot of friendships- a person is friendly solely because there is something in it for them,

Generally if you can feel comfortable calling to the persons house they are in the fairly good friend category,

hmmn not saying anything very meaningful here, but its a subject I could write a book on if I put my mind to it,

one for another day perhaps.

as a rule of thumb younger male friendships can be competitive, once you get past all that and can just relax its a better situation

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Foxhall

[ZA Dater]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:51 AM, basil67 said:

I agree with what's already been written here about how there are different degrees of friendships.   There are loads of diagrams and descriptions online - I would have shared one for you but most seem to be linked to commercial entities, and so I can't do so.  Even then, these are only indicative so view them as a guide, not as a rule. 

But in my own words, and with consideration to what @Blind-Sided wrote, here are my descriptions:

1. Intimate friend.  We share thoughts and feelings, hang out together, have fun together and really understand how the other thinks and feels and offer each other support.  I have two, though both friendships are in a state of flux because the life situations have changed for both and as such, so has the dynamic of the friendship.  

2. Distanced friend.  Again, I have two.  Both are women who I went to school with.  We drifted apart for a while, but then found each other again.  We now meet for a catch up about 3x per year and it's like we were never apart.   We generally don't do activities with each other, just meet for dinners together.

3. Situational friend: I have many of these.  They range from women I craft with, to friends of my intimate friends, to the women who the wives of my husband's mates.  And not forgetting the neighbours who I chat with and share ingredients with.  We get on well, and help each other out, but we don't share intimate details of our lives and we generally don't do stuff together 1:1. 

4. Warm acquaintance: Someone who's name I know and have a friendly chat with, but aren't close with.  Shopkeepers and school mums/dads

5. Acquaintance:  Someone I say 'hi' to but don't really have a connection with. This includes Facebook acquaintances

Note: with all of these friendships, I would not automatically expect an invitation to do each thing with them.  We each spend time with other friends and do stuff with them too.   And as an introvert, I don't want to spend too much time socialising anyway.

So with regards to your friend, what category would your friendship with him fall into?  And could it be that you consider him a closer friend than what he considers you to be?  

Really good post which made me think and assess this. I think I fall into the "convenient friend" but maybe this is my perception because somehow for 14 odd years we have managed to be friends and work together, which I am told is pretty remarkable. 

The way I view life makes me a rather unusual person to be around but I am the most loyal person most people will ever find but I always get the sense those I am loyal to are far less loyal to me, again my perception and the other perception is the few friends I have, would they actually ever help me if I needed it, trying times have proven this to never be the case but when they are going through difficulty I am always there to lend support because that is just how I live life.

This post above had really made me think a lot. 

[basil67]

@ZA Dater  What do you mean by "convenient friend"?   To a certain extent, we all have to fit our friendships in when it's convenient to us. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Actually friendship does involve if not taking, then receiving. Receiving support from the other person, receiving love, receiving praise, receiving favors and help in a pinch. You basically will give and receive in a friendship. 

I actually messed up a number of friendships by not asking for favors when I needed them. I would be there when they needed something--insisting on helping. I learned that it was equally important that I turn to friends when I needed help. 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say friendships are transactional. I mean, everything on some level is transactional. 

Say more if you will. 

[ZA Dater]

On 8/26/2021 at 12:53 AM, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater  What do you mean by "convenient friend"?   To a certain extent, we all have to fit our friendships in when it's convenient to us. 

By this I mean I have the feeling that should I ever need these people they simply would not be there when I needed a favor. Good example is when I ask for guidance, I seldom get any that is actually considered, i.e. its generic and not really what I was looking for in the context of that situation. Sometimes its nice to ask someone for an opinion on a specific thing but then the opinion given has nothing to do with the specific circumstance.

 

[basil67]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

By this I mean I have the feeling that should I ever need these people they simply would not be there when I needed a favor. Good example is when I ask for guidance, I seldom get any that is actually considered, i.e. its generic and not really what I was looking for in the context of that situation. Sometimes its nice to ask someone for an opinion on a specific thing but then the opinion given has nothing to do with the specific circumstance.

Can you give examples?   

 

[basil67]

@ZA Dater I was hoping you'd come back to this.   Are you asking for guidance tangible things, such as building something you've never made?  Or how to cook a particular dish?   Or is it the intangible stuff related to dating?

What kinds of things do you ask and why do their replies miss the mark?

[smackie9]

Sometimes you out grow your friends...when they don't fulfill your expectations. So there is nothing wrong with keeping them as casual friends, and meet someone who does. It's usually a chance thing that you really hit it off with someone. That's why it's so important to make new friends and do lots of social activities.