anika99 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 9 hours ago, torn_heart said: My therapist told me that I was in love with both women, that each had some part that really appealed to me (in the case of the OW, it wasn't just the sex) , both women are the opposite of each other and appeal to different parts of my own personality. I believe this and it's why I think affairs are mostly about selfishness, because what you have said would be true for anyone who decided that they have the right to have two love interests. No one person can ever meet another person's every need. I haven't been in an affair but I've had several long term and semi long term relationships. When one relationship would end and some time later another relationship would begin it would often start with me admiring the qualities that my new interests has but my ex didn't. I'd have thoughts like "Oh he's so smart and so easy to talk to. I could never have long talks like this with my ex" "He's so gentle and loving during sex, my ex always treated sex like a porno" "he loves dogs! my ex didn't like pets" etc, etc. Then as time would go on I'd find myself starting to miss the qualities my ex did have but were missing in my current SO which might lead to thoughts like "he isn't very playful, I miss the play and fun that I used to have with my ex" "he's kind of lazy and never takes the initiative to get things done, none of my exes ever had that problem" Affairs are about selfishness and entitlement and fantasy and the love the MM may think he has for the other OW is a selfish and self centered love that is based on fulfilling one's own desires. The MM who thinks he loves two women at the same time is judging his feelings by what he gets not what he gives. He feels entitled to the best of both women even when he knows that at least one of those women are hurting terribly for the sake of being with him. Affair love is selfish and self centered. We could all "love" multiple romantic partners at the same time if our love was solely about our own enjoyment and pleasing ourselves. When we have a deeper more sincere love for someone we think of their best interests as much as we think about our own. we make sacrifices for that person and for the good or the relationship and we would hate ourselves if we ever wounded our SO at a deep level. If MM truly loved their OW they would end the affair for the OW's own good, they wouldn't let her keep hanging on and suffering. 11 Link to post Share on other sites
BourneWicked Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, anika99 said: If MM truly loved their OW they would end the affair for the OW's own good, they wouldn't let her keep hanging on and suffering. Somewhere near the end I realized this. I was totally in love with him, and he bounced in and out of my life like it was nothing to him. Because it was nothing for him. And maybe NC stuck this time in part because he realized he was being cruel... or he finally just stopped caring enough to bother me anymore. I felt if he truly cared about me, he would have ended it a long time ago, during one of my many attempts and asks to stop, because the hurt to me was clear and openly expressed. But he kept reaching out, because it was about attention and distraction for him, never mind what it did to me. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, anika99 said: When we have a deeper more sincere love for someone we think of their best interests as much as we think about our own. we make sacrifices for that person and for the good or the relationship and we would hate ourselves if we ever wounded our SO at a deep level. If MM truly loved their OW they would end the affair for the OW's own good, they wouldn't let her keep hanging on and suffering. This, to me, is true love. The ability to put the other person’s best interest ahead of your own. Love, in its truest form is selfless. Perfect example, a parent who loves their child dearly… would love for that child to stay in their home but let’s their child go out into the world to pursue their own lives, make their own mistakes, and find their own happiness… A married man who stays with a woman when he knows she wants more and he can not offer these things…particularly when it’s clear that she is suffering emotionally, that’s it’s keeping her from finding true love and finding real happiness in life - that’s not love. That’s incredibly selfish and actually hurtful behavior for one who says they “love” another. That would be akin to the parent manipulating and guilting their grown child to staying home because they can not live without them. The child is stunted, missing out on so many different experiences that could bring them success and joy in life. But, the parent has exactly what they want in life - Edited August 21, 2021 by BaileyB 6 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Some do love the other woman. However, as others have said, love means thinking and acting for the best interests of the other person over your own, and that is the test I'd apply to decide if it is really love. I am poly, so I can love another, and even have them as part of my family - and that includes my wife's approval. Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) "Love" means different things to different people. This means one can pick and choose among various definitions, apply them to a particular situation, say that IS/ISN'T "love" and have some other person disagree. For example if "love" means sexual loyalty to ONLY one person, then by that definition a married AP didn't love either the spouse or the AP (at least at the time of the affair) unless they were actually sexually loyal to just one of them. If love means "a strong emotional connection" then probably many if not most APs love both spouse and their AP at least to some extent. (I would note that a person can be unhappy in a marriage but still have a strong emotional connection to their spouse.) I could go on, but I think you likely see my point. Edited August 21, 2021 by mark clemson 3 Link to post Share on other sites
torn_heart Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, anika99 said: If MM truly loved their OW they would end the affair for the OW's own good, they wouldn't let her keep hanging on and suffering. This is the point, in the end if OW is also in love, and MM won-t leave then better to stay away and stop the hurt. Nevertheless, MM (me) loves OW, it just goes in different phases, that last part (the quote) is the last phase of the affair. Edited August 21, 2021 by torn_heart 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Yeah, I'm relying here specifically on the experience of a friend of mine, who definitely fell in love with at least one of the other women he dated while married. The point still holds, however: there is a certain amount of lying that goes into an affair---99 percent of the time. The married person either highlights what is not working in the marriage, tries to convince the other person that they are miserable and is often suggesting that they might leave their partner even when the married partner has no such intention. But sure, why not?! I am sure some affair partners love each other. Sure! Why not? And I suppose this love can sometimes be felt and the affair partner does get something genuine out of the affair. The point here is that "love" doesn't solve all the world's problems. I've deeply loved partners that I broke up with. I loved them, but didn't think I could be happy with them. I've been dumped by women who deeply loved me. They just didn't think they would be really happy to continue with me. Love can happen in dysfunctional relationships and destructive, even violent relationships. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Canadian Maple Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 When you love someone, you want what is best for them, what will truly make them happy, and you want that love to shine in the light of day. These guys love themselves more than they could ever love anyone else, so sure they may love you, but it's always always about them. They love you as long as you are giving them every single thing they want. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Myabee Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 On 8/21/2021 at 7:10 PM, Lotsgoingon said: Yeah, I'm relying here specifically on the experience of a friend of mine, who definitely fell in love with at least one of the other women he dated while married. The point still holds, however: there is a certain amount of lying that goes into an affair---99 percent of the time. The married person either highlights what is not working in the marriage, tries to convince the other person that they are miserable and is often suggesting that they might leave their partner even when the married partner has no such intention. But sure, why not?! I am sure some affair partners love each other. Sure! Why not? And I suppose this love can sometimes be felt and the affair partner does get something genuine out of the affair. The point here is that "love" doesn't solve all the world's problems. I've deeply loved partners that I broke up with. I loved them, but didn't think I could be happy with them. I've been dumped by women who deeply loved me. They just didn't think they would be really happy to continue with me. Love can happen in dysfunctional relationships and destructive, even violent relationships. Love can happen in dysfunctional relationships and destructive, even violent relationships. I beg to differ on this point! Abusive behavior and violence typically kills love literally. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird2 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Myabee said: Love can happen in dysfunctional relationships and destructive, even violent relationships. I beg to differ on this point! Abusive behavior and violence typically kills love literally. Post after post after post on here says differently. So many stories where people are being treated in an atrocious way, yet they say they still "love" their abuser. Edited August 23, 2021 by pepperbird2 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Myabee said: Love can happen in dysfunctional relationships and destructive, even violent relationships. I beg to differ on this point! Abusive behavior and violence typically kills love literally. The two points go together. Yes, of course abuse kills love. But I would say it more kills the desire to be partnered with someone. Lots of people feel violated and yet in a quiet moment, they can conjure up the good qualities that drew them to their abusive partner, and they can even wish for good things to occur in the life of the abusive partner. But yes, abuse destroys bonds. Love is one thing. Deciding to stay in a relationship with someone is another. Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said: Post after post after post on here says differently. So many stories where people are being treated in an atrocious way, yet they say they still "love" their abuser. Absolutely. So much so that when I read the person early on saying "I love my partner very much," I am no longer convinced about what "love" means. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Myabee Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 53 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said: Post after post after post on here says differently. So many stories where people are being treated in an atrocious way, yet they say they still "love" their abuser. That's crazy! i’m sorry in my book abuse kills love. Link to post Share on other sites
Myabee Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said: The two points go together. Yes, of course abuse kills love. But I would say it more kills the desire to be partnered with someone. Lots of people feel violated and yet in a quiet moment, they can conjure up the good qualities that drew them to their abusive partner, and they can even wish for good things to occur in the life of the abusive partner. But yes, abuse destroys bonds. Love is one thing. Deciding to stay in a relationship with someone is another. No one should stay in an abusive relationship period. I would never advocate that. Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Definitely get out of an abusive relationship, but I'm focusing here on people giving love some ethereal, heavenly quality. I'm not saying they love the abuse, but they might have deep feelings for the abuser--which is why the abuse is all the more traumatic: it's done by someone you love. Link to post Share on other sites
Jyklle Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 11:06 PM, torn_heart said: Because I grew up thinking I couldn't love more than one person. At some point of the affair I felt torn, and weird, because I felt I was in love with OW, but also my GF, and it was something really weird. The anxiety attacks started and when OW and I broke up and hurt like hell I went to therapy, because I couldn understand these feelings: how can I suffer a breakup with an affair just as I would suffer a break up with a gf and also be in love and in a relationship with my gf?? Complicated... Very well said! Affairs ARE complicated… it’s why we’re here. Link to post Share on other sites
Jyklle Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 On 8/21/2021 at 12:59 AM, ExpatInItaly said: OP, if this is the MM you are referring to - no, he does not love you. Other affairs depend totally on the individuals involved, though we rarely see a MM here who says he loves his OW more than his wife. We actually don't see too many MM here in general. It's nearly always the OW who opens a thread. What does that tell us about who is suffering more emotionally? More confused about their feelings, to the point where they elicit opinions from strangers online? I don’t see the point in looking up her previous posts. Has nothing to do with the question. As far as you assuming because men don’t post here, they don’t care… well lots of men don’t take the time to post on social media about their heartache or emotions. Most men internalize that. every situation is different and complex. It’s possible to love the AP MORE… some marry for the wrong reasons or stay due to obligation like kids. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 7 hours ago, Jyklle said: It’s possible to love the AP MORE… some marry for the wrong reasons or stay due to obligation like kids. Yes some people do marry for the wrong reasons and that's what divorce is for. Divorce does not take away one's obligation towards their kids. Lot's of divorced couples are co-parenting quite well and kids are happier in happy homes so to me these are just excuses. If someone is in love with their affair partner they are free to divorce and be with that person. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Jyklle Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, stillafool said: Yes some people do marry for the wrong reasons and that's what divorce is for. Divorce does not take away one's obligation towards their kids. Lot's of divorced couples are co-parenting quite well and kids are happier in happy homes so to me these are just excuses. If someone is in love with their affair partner they are free to divorce and be with that person. Yes… but not everything is so black and white. Affairs are complicated for everyone involved. Truth hurts, I’m just stating the obvious. Affairs are ugly for the spouse, married partner, affair partner, etc… point being is just don’t have an affair! BUT life is complicated and people don’t make the right choices. I’m the end, of course the married man will chose the wife. Statistics proves that married men don’t leave wives! But to say he never loved his affair partner… well that’s far fetched. 🤷🏻♀️ Lots of generalizations not gonna help. Now I remember why I don’t like coming to these message boards. I used to frequent iVillage way back when they had boards and peoples opinions, honestly, just make things worse. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Jyklle said: Statistics proves that married men don’t leave wives! But to say he never loved his affair partner… well that’s far fetched. I hear what you're saying but he certainly isn't doing his wife any favors by choosing to stay with her if he loves the OW. Through divorce he frees his wife up to find someone who loves her. Then both can go on to a happier life. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jyklle said: I don’t see the point in looking up her previous posts. Has nothing to do with the question. As far as you assuming because men don’t post here, they don’t care… well lots of men don’t take the time to post on social media about their heartache or emotions. Most men internalize that. every situation is different and complex. It’s possible to love the AP MORE… some marry for the wrong reasons or stay due to obligation like kids. I agree with you. That is completely possible because we have our rational mind and then we have our feelings and they don’t always sync. We have things we want to do and then things should do. It’s why some people can spend their whole lives in loveless marriages without an affair Edited August 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 A MM poster put it rather well once. Yes he said he loved his AP and he told her he did, but he confessed it was more a "I love this, I love the sex, I love being with you" kind of a love, not a "Marry me, have my babies and let me die in your arms" kind of a love. I guess that is why so many, then stay with their wives. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, elaine567 said: A MM poster put it rather well once. Yes he said he loved his AP and he told her he did, but he confessed it was more a "I love this, I love the sex, I love being with you" kind of a love, not a "Marry me, have my babies and let me die in your arms" kind of a love. I guess that is why so many, then stay with their wives. Typical, uber selfish, compartmentalizing WS “I love my AP only for the funs they provide but I love my wife as a broodmare and nursemaid when I’m old. “ All about what they can provide for him. Real nice xD Edited August 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jyklle said: As far as you assuming because men don’t post here, they don’t care… well lots of men don’t take the time to post on social media about their heartache or emotions. Most men internalize that. Not sure about that. Because then you would see them internalize other heartache and emotions online. But you see plenty of cases of guys upset of oneitis/crush cases or guys upset and venting over break ups. Why is it that you don’t see a married man really struggling with affairs that often? I reddit and I do see it occasionally, but it’s very rare. Yes there is a strong stigma against cheating and no one feels any sympathy for you whatsoever, but even so, it is anonymous and APs face stigma too. Why wouldn’t you see more MM struggling with this. I think I know the answer. Most MM don’t struggle with this at all… They’re enjoying having their cake and eating too 🍰 Edited August 25, 2021 by Cookiesandough 4 Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaPeach1 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 On 8/20/2021 at 8:46 PM, Maylady said: Also in a brief affair is it possible to love that person more than the wife. No. Why would he? He may be infatuated because the side woman is not the one he has to pay bills with, go through illnesses with, do chores with, raise children with, etc... Eventually, the infatuation wears off because those feelings are not based in reality. Even if he were to leave and marry you, how long before he becomes bored with day to day life and infatuated with a new woman? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts