Should I tell my gf to stand up to her boss in this case?

[ironpony]

My gf's boss, who is also my boss, doesn't treat her well, in the sense that he makes her work a lot of overtime, more then legal, and just doesn't treat her well, with a bullying attitude, threatening to fire her if she doesn't, even though it's not legal to have to work that much.  He also has her working in dangerious conditions that are legally against health and safety codes.

I told my gf just to stand up to him and say no. However, we both work in the same job, so does that change anything for a bf giving such advice? The boss doesn't make me worth overtime at all, and I work in a different department anyway, so I guess he never wanted me to. But what do you think?

Edited August 28, 2021 by ironpony

[basil67]

I think she should learn the employment laws she's working under and make her own decision.  Or if she's a union member, she should contact her union rep.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, ironpony said:

 However, we both work in the same job, so does that change anything for a bf giving such advice? 

Let her deal with it. You're not a labor attorney. If she wants to vent to you fine, but stop giving horrible advice.

Stop asking a 21 girl to stick her neck out and get fired. If and when she wants less money/hours she'll check the labor laws and company policies.

[Blind-Sided]

I agree... you aren't a labor attorney.   There is a fine line of what is legal when working overtime.  If she is being paid (generally time+1/2) and there is a reason... then it is legal.  She may not like it... but it's not illegal.  The other side to this is... if she says "no"... then she has to be prepared to quit.  She needs to make up her own mind, and figure out if she wants to look for a new job. 

[ironpony]

Oh okay, I read it was illegal though according to the labor laws.  I know I'm not a labor attorney, but she asked me what she thinks she should do so she's asking for my opinion still.

[d0nnivain]

Since she asked your opinion ought to be that she should consult an attorney. 

[Noproblem]

yeah she should stand up for herself and he can fire her for it and she can sue him if he was doing anything illegal plus there is a shortage of employees nowadays. so can he afford to lose her while others are taking the unemployment money and staying at home?

I don't think this is a terrible advice, you should never let your boss or anyone bully you or make you work under dangerous situations or illegally. People here are being mad at you for your other previous posts and being biased. 

You did the right thing. She can either stand up for herself or be a doormat who works overtime like a slave with no appreciation or compensations.

 

[Blind-Sided]

You can certainly tell her what you think.  But the realty is... she may be looking for a new job.  My GF was working a bunch of overtime because the shop was understaffed, (from COVID) and customers needed their parts. (She is a CNC Machinist) She didn't like working all that extra time... but it was needed to keep the company going. 

BUT... I wouldn't go down the path of "It's illegal" with her. 

[Taramere]

On 8/28/2021 at 2:31 PM, ironpony said:

Oh okay, I read it was illegal though according to the labor laws.  I know I'm not a labor attorney, but she asked me what she thinks she should do so she's asking for my opinion still.

Agree with everybody who says your advice should be that she consult a specialist in employment law. From the way you describe it, it certainly does sound as though she's getting a rough deal and it's particularly concerning that she's being placed in dangerous situations.  If she's being treated unfavourably in comparison to you and if there's a pattern which shows she's being treated unfavourably in comparison to other male employees then there could be the bones of a sex discrimination case here, but that's something she really needs to discuss with a qualified and experienced lawyer in the area she lives in.  A person trying to "stand up for themselves" can easily go wrong in a situation like the one you're describing. 

If she has an employment contract, then she needs to take that with her to a professional consultation so that the attorney can advise her properly.  Often the advice is to raise the matter informally in the first instance and then raise a formal grievance if that doesn't work out.  In a situation like you're describing where she's being placed in dangerous situations, I think any lawyer she consults will probably tell her she should proceed straight to the grievance hearing stage.  The company might have a grievance procedure (lack of provision of such a procedure can go against a company, especially if it employs a fair number of people).

Where I live, we have "whistleblower protection" provisions that protect employees who report health and safety concerns.  Which means that if a worker reported breaches of health and safety law to any regulatory body, they are protected from any detriment or punishment from the employer/colleagues for having done so.   I assume you're in the US?  For some reason (an issue with my laptop I think) I can't post links on this site any more, but I understand there's something called "The OSHA Whistleblower Protection Program" that operates in the US that works in a similar way.  But again, this isn't something you should really be trying to research and mess around with on your own.  Consultation with a local attorney who has specialist knowledge of in employment/labor is key.  Advise her to do things properly with expert professional help.  Just urging her to stand up to the boss doesn't really cut it.  Power imbalances tend to operate in these situations, in a way that makes advice to "stand up to the boss" a bit unrealistic at best.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Taramere

[ironpony]

3 hours ago, Taramere said:

Agree with everybody who says your advice should be that she consult a specialist in employment law. From the way you describe it, it certainly does sound as though she's getting a rough deal and it's particularly concerning that she's being placed in dangerous situations.  If she's being treated unfavourably in comparison to you and if there's a pattern which shows she's being treated unfavourably in comparison to other male employees then there could be the bones of a sex discrimination case here, but that's something she really needs to discuss with a qualified and experienced lawyer in the area she lives in.  A person trying to "stand up for themselves" can easily go wrong in a situation like the one you're describing. 

If she has an employment contract, then she needs to take that with her to a professional consultation so that the attorney can advise her properly.  Often the advice is to raise the matter informally in the first instance and then raise a formal grievance if that doesn't work out.  In a situation like you're describing where she's being placed in dangerous situations, I think any lawyer she consults will probably tell her she should proceed straight to the grievance hearing stage.  The company might have a grievance procedure (lack of provision of such a procedure can go against a company, especially if it employs a fair number of people).

Where I live, we have "whistleblower protection" provisions that protect employees who report health and safety concerns.  Which means that if a worker reported breaches of health and safety law to any regulatory body, they are protected from any detriment or punishment from the employer/colleagues for having done so.   I assume you're in the US?  For some reason (an issue with my laptop I think) I can't post links on this site any more, but I understand there's something called "The OSHA Whistleblower Protection Program" that operates in the US that works in a similar way.  But again, this isn't something you should really be trying to research and mess around with on your own.  Consultation with a local attorney who has specialist knowledge of in employment/labor is key.  Advise her to do things properly with expert professional help.  Just urging her to stand up to the boss doesn't really cut it.  Power imbalances tend to operate in these situations, in a way that makes advice to "stand up to the boss" a bit unrealistic at best.

 

Oh yes for sure, it's just that people are still afraid to whistleblow even so, it seems.  I assume others in her department are working overtime as well, but I can ask her and check.  It's hard to say if it's sex discrimination or not, because we work in a green house and most of the employees are women.  I work in a different department where there is no overtime in comparison in that department.  Hard to say, but it was a theory.  But hard to say when most of the employees are women to compare to the men, and the boss is a man.

Edited August 30, 2021 by ironpony

[ironpony]

So it turns out that she is afraid to stand up for herself it seems, and is just letting people walk over her.  Not just the boss, but also co-workers, who keep asking her to work her shifts, and she keeps saying yes, even though she doesn't want to.  I feel like I need to give her some tough and just tell her she really needs to grow a pair, but is this the right way to go.

[Lotsgoingon]

You cannot fix gf's inability to stand up for herself. Sorry, give up that fantasy. Such a fantasy is disastrous for relationships, absolutely disastrous. The quicker you give up that delusion the better. Your job is to take gf as she is. As she is right now (no change), you wanna be with her or not? The good news here is that you are learning something very important about her—she can’t stand up for herself.

If you want to be with her, then really your best bet is hugs and reassurance. Give her hugs. And just affirm her complaining as in “I’m so sorry you have to go through this.” Or “that really sucks. That’s so unfair.” Literally put phrases like that on automatic—that’s all you can do.

Your gf knows the option of standing up is out there. She simply doesn't feel comfortable doing so. This isn't a "logical" matter that will be helped by you spouting off about what she should do. You hug her and encourage her, as she is, and that in itself will give her some strength. Every time you tell her to stand up for herself, there's a very good chance your gf feels shame and failure. Is that what you want? That shame and failure only weakens her confidence even more about standing up for herself.

Now, there's a bigger issue here that you probably need to confront. That is that an inability to stand up for yourself can be a fatal flaw in a partner. Her behavior right now is a major red flag. I assume that's why you're here--you feel neglected or that she cannot protect time with you. Well, there will be people crushing on her, hitting on her, there will be other demanding bosses, and strong insistent salespeople and parents and on and on. I would think very hard about whether or not your gf has the strength to set enough boundaries to protect the relationship.

People who cannot say no can carry a lot of anger and resentment, even if otherwise they are super "nice." They pay a cost (psychological) for not standing up for themselves, and that's anger/resentment and things can get really absurd in that your gf might end up spewing bitterness and anger to you because she cannot stand up for herself.

So not only do you not get good time with her, but when you do get time, your relationship job can become her resentment receptacle. Being someone's receptacle for complaints that are in their power to fix is maddening, a real waste of time. Keep your eye out for that. Perhaps you're already experiencing this. 

In fact, this behavior of complaining about stuff that is in your power to address is one of the most unattractive qualities a romantic partner can have, man or woman. And frankly, it's a major red flag for the relationship. Let’s say you get sick one day.  Let’s say you need someone to stand up for you at the hospital, to go summon a nurse, demand some care, get on the phone with the insurance company. A person who cannot stand up for themselves usually cannot stand up well for their partner either. So she won't have your back because it's not in her capacity to do so. 

The bottom line here is quit trying to fix her (which is wildly unrealistic--law#1: you cannot change a partner) and instead start getting realistic about whether or not you even want to date her. This is a major flaw that has horrible consequences in relationships.

 

 

 

[ironpony]

Oh I want her even if she won't stand up,  it's just she's dragging herself down and I care and do not like seeing her do that.  That's all.

[basil67]

Thing is, standing up for herself is something which, for many, comes with age and experience.    At this point, she's barely an adult with the lack of life experience which comes with her age.    Simply telling her to stand up for herself gives her nothing in the way of tools and life experience to back what she needs to do.  

 

[ironpony]

Yeah that's true.  I just want what's best for her.