Getting vaccine for wrong reasons.

[HazelBliss]

A lot of people I know are getting the vaccine because they think they will not contract the virus. The sole purpose of a vaccine is to eradicate a specific disease right?.. but if vaccinated people are still contracting the virus, what is the point of getting it??  If it is to alleviate symptoms and prevent you from dying, than they should stress that as opposed to having people assume they are invincible after getting it and also assume they don't have to take precautions even after getting vaccinated.. and there's that question again.."What is the point of the vaccine?

I know a few people who were vaccinated and now their whole household has covid. My friend who said I cant come to her house unless im vaccinated.. has covid and she and her husband were vaccinated. Crazy.

 

[basil67]

I don't know of any reputable source which has said the vaccine is 100% effective in preventing one from contacting or transmitting the virus.   What we have been told (at least where I live) is that the vaccine makes COVID harder to catch and makes us less likely to transmit the virus if we do get it, as well as giving lesser symptoms in those who do catch it.    The less people who are sick, the less people will die and the quicker we can all get to some degree of normality.

As for those who think they are invincible to COVID after being vaccinated, well....there's no vaccination against stupid. 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by basil67

[Alpacalia]

There is no such thing as a 100% effective vaccine.

Much of it is determined by your immune system's responsiveness to a vaccine and the antibodies that are released in the blood as a result.

The purpose of the vaccine is to get case levels to a manageable level.

[lana-banana]

2 hours ago, HazelBliss said:

vaccinated people are still contracting the virus, what is the point of getting it?

It is the difference between having a cold and winding up on a ventilator (or death). The vast, vast majority of breakthrough cases are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms.

If you really want a vaccine to eradicate anything, you need it to be present in overwhelming numbers. That is why we eradicated mumps, polio, chicken pox, etc. If we had 95%+ of the population vaccinated then COVID might indeed be dying out. But until then the vaccines are doing their job: they are saving lives.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Alpaca said:

There is no such thing as a 100% effective vaccine.

Agree. Some vaccines offer varying degrees of protection, such as flu vaccines. Depends on the strains.

This is a very quickly mutating animal in the same category as the cold virus.

Not all vaccines offer lifetime immunity such as polio vaccines.

Vaccination targets the specific viral agent, with varying degrees of crossover immunity.

In fact, with Delta and other strains about, many health organizations and jurisdictions are recommending and mandating masks and other infection control methods.

It's also important to note that individuals have differing immune responses.

 

[Blind-Sided]

As someone who was an R&D Chemist.... I will admit... no vax is 100%.   

Yes... the vax is to help eradicate the virus. The issue is...

1) People were not getting it fast enough, and not enough people got it.

2) People were not staying apart.

On point 1... this allowed the virus to mutate, and it now gets past the vax easier. I'm tired of seeing the "The vax dosn't work and that why vax people are getting the virus"  It's no longer the same virus. 

On point 2... people were just being stupid and thinking it was a political stunt... and going out, and getting together.  Heck... people I know and like were all getting together, with thier kids like it was no big deal.  They said... "These people are in my bubble"... but then those people would go out with others.  The other side is... I see the "99.3% Survival".  that may be true... but do you want to find out that you are the person who will die from it?   The real issue with this is... you just don't know how it will hit you.  My GF's grandmother died from it.  I was so bad... I probably should have gone to the hospital... and it took over 6 months to be 100% again.  But on the flip side... my 72 yo mother it was like a bad cold. (Same with my dad)  My GF's folks... her dad was bad, and went to the hospital for a couple days... but her mom was 100% asymptomatic. 

The Pfizer Vax is 100% approved.  Just go get it so we can get back to normal.   

[spiderowl]

Sadly, the point of getting a vaccine is not always to eradicate the disease: this is not always possible.  Some diseases can be eradicated because the virus or bacteria does not mutate much or the hosts are humans only (as with smallpox) but it is not possible for others - yet. 

With Covid, the best that can be done is to reduce the chances of catching it or the severity of the illness if it is caught.  It is possible to get Covid when fully vaccinated but one has a much better chance of not being seriously ill or dying.  

I can see your point and at the moment we are improving our chances of survival by taking the vaccine.  I am sure scientists are working flat out to do more but it is still relatively new and this takes time.  We are lucky to have vaccines now.

Edited August 29, 2021 by spiderowl

[QuietRiot]

22 hours ago, HazelBliss said:

A lot of people I know are getting the vaccine because they think they will not contract the virus. The sole purpose of a vaccine is to eradicate a specific disease right?.. but if vaccinated people are still contracting the virus, what is the point of getting it??  If it is to alleviate symptoms and prevent you from dying, than they should stress that as opposed to having people assume they are invincible after getting it and also assume they don't have to take precautions even after getting vaccinated.. and there's that question again.."What is the point of the vaccine?

I know a few people who were vaccinated and now their whole household has covid. My friend who said I cant come to her house unless im vaccinated.. has covid and she and her husband were vaccinated. Crazy.

 

They've never said that it was 100% effective. It was always emphasize that it was to reduce the severity of the disease.

[BaileyB]

On 8/28/2021 at 6:57 PM, HazelBliss said:

If it is to alleviate symptoms and prevent you from dying, than they should stress that as opposed to having people assume they are invincible after getting it and also assume they don't have to take precautions even after getting vaccinated..

Is this not what public health officials have been saying? 

I’ve seen studies that say there are a high percentage of vaccinated people getting breakthrough infections.

Thats said, I think you are something like 4 times less likely to be infected, 10 times less likely to be symptomatic, and more than 50% less likely to be hospitalized and die from covid. 

Public healthy policy that says that you must be vaccinated to eat in a restaurant, or got to a gym, or anything else does not mean that you won’t get infected. If anything, it is an incentive to encourage people to get vaccinated - because those who are vaccinated are at much less risk of serious illness and death. 

[BaileyB]

23 hours ago, basil67 said:

As for those who think they are invincible to COVID after being vaccinated, well....there's no vaccination against stupid. 

No, there is not!

[GeorgiaPeach1]

On 8/28/2021 at 6:57 PM, HazelBliss said:

A lot of people I know are getting the vaccine because they think they will not contract the virus. The sole purpose of a vaccine is to eradicate a specific disease right?.. but if vaccinated people are still contracting the virus, what is the point of getting it??  If it is to alleviate symptoms and prevent you from dying, than they should stress that as opposed to having people assume they are invincible after getting it and also assume they don't have to take precautions even after getting vaccinated.. and there's that question again.."What is the point of the vaccine?

I know a few people who were vaccinated and now their whole household has covid. My friend who said I cant come to her house unless im vaccinated.. has covid and she and her husband were vaccinated. Crazy.

 

It's common knowledge that vaccines reduce the risk of serious complications, but don't necessarily prevent being infected. Same with the flu shot. 

[HazelBliss]

4 minutes ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

It's common knowledge that vaccines reduce the risk of serious complications, but don't necessarily prevent being infected. Same with the flu shot. 

Tell them that... clearly its not common knowledge with the covid vaccine.

[OneLov]

On 8/28/2021 at 7:57 PM, HazelBliss said:

A lot of people I know are getting the vaccine because they think they will not contract the virus. The sole purpose of a vaccine is to eradicate a specific disease right?.. but if vaccinated people are still contracting the virus, what is the point of getting it?? 

The purpose with respiratory viruses is to reduce rates of serious illness that results in hospitalizations and/or death.  The only virus we have eradicated with vaccines in humans is small pox (we are almost there with polio).  The only reason we were able to accomplish that is because there is no animal reservoir for that virus.  If a virus has an animal reservoir, it cannot be eradicated as the animal will supply as a "laboratory" to recombine and evolve. 

But that misses the point.  The point is reduce rates of spread and infection.  The logic of if we cannot prevent something, it is pointless to employ mitigation efforts is flawed.  We simply use a balancing test to adopt mitigation strategies.  Taking a free vaccine that is wildly available (at least in the US) that will substantially lessen spread and reduce seriousness of any breakthrough infection, which overall, is still rare (Using last week's data reported by CDC, there were 35,000, symptomatic breakthrough infections of the 162 million fully vaccinated individuals in the US; or 0.02%) vs. letting this virus spread like wildfire through a population that will result in death and serious life-long injury (Covid has a fatality rate of 194 in 100,000; or 1.6%), albeit another uncommon outcome (rare is defined as less than 50 in 100,000) relative to infection rates. 

It takes less about 30 minutes to get two doses (counting observation time post-shot for allergic reactions).  It is free and available to anyone 12 and older.  You have a substantial benefit of protection against infection and severe illness (see Google for specific, current efficacy estimates) with the most minimal of sacrifices and not costs to you.  You can literally save a life and/or prevent an agonizing experience for another person.

The only negative is there are some side effects reported in some people (for example, I got a bit sick for 24 hours after my second dose, which actually made me glad because I knew the vaccine was working like it was supposed to).  Serious side effects are extreme rare.  We have great confidence in the latter statement, despite only 1 of 3 vaccines being fully approved by the FDA, but it requires a basic understanding of biology and human immune system.  Suffice it to say, drugs that cause serious side-effects and illness, that can lead death, after a significant amount of time from exposure are not drugs that are ingested once or twice.  That is why having ONE glass of wine during pregnancy will not lead to FA, but boozing hard and regularly very much can.  These side effects are due to continual exposure to the drug. 

So when you put these on the scale, it tips in favor of vaccines.  I very much respect individual freedoms, but remember there is no individual right to avail oneself to the benefits of participating in modern of society.  This is why people can walk around naked in their house but cannot do the same at the park.  We, as a society, have an equal stake in deciding what we think is acceptable and not. 

If you haven't already, I encourage you to reconsider your stance on vaccines.

 

Btw, who is "them"? 

[mark clemson]

From what I understand - with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines (not sure about the others) you will have "active" antibodies in your system for about 6 months after receiving the vaccination. The active antibodies usually attack the virus right away if you start to get infected and have at least a decent chance of wiping it out before you even know you're sick.

After that initial period, those active antibodies will be gone in most people and you will be left with "memory cells" which don't really stop an infection, but help your body mount a (new) immune response fairly quickly. Thus, your ongoing protection tends to be pretty good IF you have a strong immune system. After about 60, or for other reasons, your memory cells are not as effective in mounting an immune response.

The upshot is that you can indeed become infected, sick, and contagious after a vaccination. Unless your immune system is compromised for whatever reason, you're not likely to get extremely sick, require hospitalization, or die.

A booster shot might be a good idea for many, depending on your circumstances and/or how "resistant" you feel you need to be. For example, you may be a healthy 45 y.o. Perhaps you don't really need a booster shot. But - do you see your 85 y. o. mother regularly or have an immune-compromised family member, or simply want to contribute as little as possible to spreading the virus around? In that case, perhaps you do want one?

Keep in mind that I'm a layman. The above is my understanding. Like so many things in life, it's not quite as simple as we'd probably like it to be.

[Els]

Look, let's just put it this way. You are going to die one day regardless. So what's stopping you from running blindfolded down a freeway, jumping off skybridges, and climbing into the lion's pen at the zoo?

[GeorgiaPeach1]

4 hours ago, HazelBliss said:

Tell them that... clearly its not common knowledge with the covid vaccine.

I suppose some people don't do their research, and might be unaware.

[E-mc2]

On 8/29/2021 at 7:44 AM, Blind-Sided said:

 The Pfizer Vax is 100% approved.  Just go get it so we can get back to normal.   

It has been my belief from day one this virus is here to stay.  Our great grand kids will be getting covid.  Hopefully the strain will be less severe over time.  It seems rather obvious by now that any hope of these current vaccines eradicating covid is unlikely.  Let's just hope at a minimum that researchers come up with sufficient treatments for the infected so getting covid is no longer life threatening.  It seems to me that's the reality we face.

    

[Blind-Sided]

1 hour ago, E-mc2 said:

It has been my belief from day one this virus is here to stay.  Our great grand kids will be getting covid.  Hopefully the strain will be less severe over time.  It seems rather obvious by now that any hope of these current vaccines eradicating covid is unlikely.  Let's just hope at a minimum that researchers come up with sufficient treatments for the infected so getting covid is no longer life threatening.  It seems to me that's the reality we face.

    

Unfortunately... you are probably right. We let it mutate into something stronger.  COVID has been around a long time, but it has hit in waves, and was less contagious. It's just like the Spanish visiting central America LONG ago. They brought disease that was harmless to them... but basically wiped out the natives. The sad bit to this is... it's going to kill off the people who can't fight it off, and for the rest... they will pass on a natural immunity that will make it like a cold or the flu.  But it's going to take millions of deaths, and a generation to happen. 

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, E-mc2 said:

 It seems rather obvious by now that any hope of these current vaccines eradicating covid is unlikely. 

    

The vaccines are great. It’s so many people that refuse or aren’t bothered to take them that means COVID won’t be eradicated. 

[Woggle]

The more people who are vaccinated the less places the virus has to go which means the quicker it will die out. The fact that so many are not vaccinated is why this virus keeps spreading around and mutating sometimes into stronger strands which can break through a vaccine. I seriously don't understand people who are okay with taking stuff meant for horses but vaccines developed by scientists who know what they are doing is a big no no. It's hard to even fathom this kind of mentality.

[E-mc2]

18 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

But it's going to take millions of deaths, and a generation to happen. 

The impact from covid is going to have lasting effects for at least a full generation.  We are only in the second inning here.  Just look at the economic repercussions coming.  I think it will take a decade for the economy to get back on track.  We haven't even lifted any rent and mortgage forbearance yet.  The sh*t hasn't even hit the fan yet.  The government can't keep $3T stimulus packages going on forever.  If they do it will have consequences, and if they don't it will have consequences.  We are doing what is necessary for the moment but I see a big mess coming.  I hope I'm very wrong.         

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

The vaccines are great. It’s so many people that refuse or aren’t bothered to take them that means COVID won’t be eradicated. 

From what I understand if you are vaccinated you can still get covid and also spread it.  It helps with your symptoms but doesn't make you immune.  Even if everyone gets vaccinated that doesn't mean it would be eradicated.  They are also talking about a third booster shot now.  What that means is it doesn't work to begin with.  Covid is here to stay.  The vaccine isn't the magic bullet we were all hoping for.    

13 hours ago, Woggle said:

I seriously don't understand people who are okay with taking stuff meant for horses but vaccines developed by scientists who know what they are doing is a big no no. It's hard to even fathom this kind of mentality.

There hasn't been a long enough track record and research to know what the full impact of mRNA vaccines will be.  This is new technology.  That is a fact.  Most vaccines take 5-10 years of research before considered safe.  It's impossible to know any long term side effects because it hasn't been long enough.

When they make a new agricultural pesticides to be sprayed on crops it takes at least 10 years to go through all the research, studies and approvals.  The "scientists that know what they are doing" say it's safe and yet everyone questions it.  So we end up with Non-GMO and Organic marketing schemes.  It shouldn't surprise you to see the mentality that you speak of with the vaccine.  People believe what they want and can be quite irrational at times.

I took the shot.  I also eat GMO food and I don't care if my apple is organic or not.  The pesticide residue isn't going to hurt you.  Science tells me there is an acceptable margin of safety.  I go with that.

But as far as the mRNA vaccine... we just won't FULLY know with 100% certainty for another 10 years or so.  I was hesitant to get the shot but I weighed the risks and rewards.  I also have a level of trust with the scientists and researchers.  I think they are good people doing the best they can and they care about humanity.      

Edited September 2, 2021 by E-mc2

[Blind-Sided]

2 hours ago, E-mc2 said:

I took the shot.  I also eat GMO food and I don't care if my apple is organic or not.  The pesticide residue isn't going to hurt you.  Science tells me there is an acceptable margin of safety.  I go with that.   

I agree.  You are actually more likely to get sick from the manure (poop) they use to fertilize "Organic" produce than the modern pesticides on standard produce. Before COVID... I was in the foods industry, and the majority of the recall reports were coming from "Organic" farms. (not to mention, they are just overpriced)  As far as GMO... well... we have been modifying foods for a very long time.  Yellow corn as we know it didn't exist 100 years ago.  Same with apples. Plant a seed from your favorite apple... chances are... it will grow a crab apple tree. 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, E-mc2 said:

 From what I understand if you are vaccinated you can still get covid and also spread it.  It helps with your symptoms but doesn't make you immune.  Even if everyone gets vaccinated that doesn't mean it would be eradicated.  

The probability of getting COVID if you’re fully vaccinated is extremely low, although yes still possible. This is the same as all vaccines. Transmission would drop substantially if everybody who can get vaccinated does, we can all get back to normal…

[Woggle]

Even if you do get covid while vaccinated chances are you will have much easier time.

[Timshel]

The vaccine is important to protect individuals from serious illness but does not prevent spreading to others.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

"Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people. This means that despite the protection offered by vaccines, a proportion of vaccinated people can pass on Delta, possibly aiding its rise."