Am I Wrong for Walking Out on Ex GF

[vwisme]

On 9/8/2021 at 9:05 AM, Taramere said:

You're welcome.  I think when it comes to discussions about health and fitness, avoiding sounding bossy is probably something close to an artform.  No matter how nice we try to be, if the person we're talking to really doesn't want to stop eating disc sized cookies (and let's face it, some of those things are insanely delicious), or start doing 100 crunches every morning, or cutting out carbs...however we put it, their "I'm being bossed around" radar will be on high alert.

But yeah.  Lots of questions is always good.  Apart from anything, we have to ask questions in order to figure out how to help somebody.   Often just talking about what sort of activities and sports they like doing will get somebody in the mood for doing those activities - when maybe they haven't done it for a while.  But probably a main thing to remember is that when people are in a depressive state of mind, it often doesn't take very much at all for them to feel swamped and overwhelmed.  Which is why small, manageable improvements that encourage people to stay in the moment a bit more (and feel good about small steps of progress) rather than constantly focusing on all the end goals they want to bring about are so important.  

Thank you for this advice. I truly hope you know that I've taken it to heart. 

Is it possible to have these hard conversations without it going so awry? Whether it be about health, finances, etc. It's never pleasant telling someone your with but I'd imagine (as someone who's been on the business end of such conversations) that there's a way for these conversations to be had/received even if the communication isn't Gottman level

[stillafool]

I never understand why people get involved with other people they are not compatible with and then try to change them.  Grown people know what they want and like and if others don't like the same then get with someone who has the same values and likes as you.  There are too many people in this world to settle.

[vwisme]

23 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I never understand why people get involved with other people they are not compatible with and then try to change them.  Grown people know what they want and like and if others don't like the same then get with someone who has the same values and likes as you.  There are too many people in this world to settle.

While I think there's something to be said about not settling and finding someone that you're compatible with, I also think there's a level of growing and changing together. Not to one's detriment like here and not to a level of codependency but in a "we're in this together" sort of way. 

[spiderowl]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:39 PM, vwisme said:

All in all, I think what you and others have stated here  is extremely helpful. Maybe the best approach is to come in asking questions when it comes to health. It's sad because my whole intention was to have a conversation but that didn't seem to be happening. I'm frustrated by that but at least I can learn new ways to communicate when a hard conversation needs to happen in the future. 

Thank you. 

OP, maybe the best approach is to not try to take control of your partner's health.  What matters in relationships is whether you love each other or not.  You don't love this woman unless she is prepared to do certain things with regard to fitness that please you.  If you love someone, you can't imagine life without them - there is no 'well, I will love her if she loses some weight' involved.

When you are both older and no longer able to keep up fitness regimes, all this will be irrelevant to you.  You will want a woman by your side who loves you and cares about you, someone you can talk to and who is interesting to talk to.  Why don't you get a job in a gym or something and then you can attempt to control other people's fitness legitimately.

Edited September 9, 2021 by spiderowl

[stillafool]

42 minutes ago, vwisme said:

I also think there's a level of growing and changing together.

But first you have to find out if that person wants to grow and change in the way you do.  Otherwise you are incompatible.

[vwisme]

15 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

OP, maybe the best approach is to not try to take control of your partner's health. What matters in relationships is whether you love each other or not.  You don't love this woman unless she is prepared to do certain things with regard to fitness that please you.

Given the fact you do not have every detail of our relationship, I can understand why you may make a statement like this but this is wrong for numerous reasons. Weight is not the issue. It's a symptom. Again, I fully realize you're viewing it without every aspect of the relationship but wanting my partner to take better care of themselves is love. I'm not controlling her fitness and the option will forever be hers but I can also say "hey, this is a line for me". 

 

24 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

When you are both older

Ironically, that's my concern. 

[vwisme]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

But first you have to find out if that person wants to grow and change in the way you do.  Otherwise you are incompatible.

Very true. And unfortunately, we did not want to grow and change in the same way(s). 

[spiderowl]

9 minutes ago, vwisme said:

Given the fact you do not have every detail of our relationship, I can understand why you may make a statement like this but this is wrong for numerous reasons. Weight is not the issue. It's a symptom. Again, I fully realize you're viewing it without every aspect of the relationship but wanting my partner to take better care of themselves is love. I'm not controlling her fitness and the option will forever be hers but I can also say "hey, this is a line for me". 

 

Ironically, that's my concern. 

But if this is a 'line for you', you are making your love conditional.  It is her body you are talking about not whether she is playing loud music that bothers you.  You cannot control someone else's body.  If you are not happy with her body, then you are not happy with her.  Her body is part of her.  There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't like women who have extra weight on but it is pretty pointless dating them and then trying to change them.

[Taramere]

57 minutes ago, vwisme said:

Thank you for this advice. I truly hope you know that I've taken it to heart. 

Is it possible to have these hard conversations without it going so awry? Whether it be about health, finances, etc. It's never pleasant telling someone your with but I'd imagine (as someone who's been on the business end of such conversations) that there's a way for these conversations to be had/received even if the communication isn't Gottman level

Only if both parties are committed to seeing it through and doing their part to keep it respectful.  Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do or say.  I mean, there is the option of just sitting there and taking it while somebody is venting their spleen at you and listing all the ways in which you've hurt them for raising a difficult subject...but I'm not sure how much good that does anybody involved in the long run.  Though it might be the only way to respond in a crisis situation where the person has had an unexpectedly volatile reaction to something you've said and the focus is on keeping yourself safe and trying to de-escalate while you look for opportunities to physically escape from the situation.

We're living in an era where there's a lot of focus on micro-aggressions that people are encouraged to call out.  I think there's a risk of people who are unstable taking that as licence to rail on others and demand respectful, empathic treatment that they're not obliged to return.  It's just not good for the mental health and self esteem of anybody to habitually adopt that role in the name of being supportive, even if they're pretty robust...but there are a lot of messages flying around just now placing quite a bit of pressure on people to do just that if the other person is seen to be vulnerable in some way (as with your ex)

A conversation with somebody who is in real crisis and who has bottled up anger either towards you, or about something else that they're re-directing onto you, might be so difficult to have that you just won't be able to have it without starting to feel like you're being a bit of a punchbag or doormat while they're venting.  Maybe in some situations you'll decide "okay, I'm willing to be an emotional punchbag for a brief period of time if it gets us past this hump, and on condition that it doesn't leave the person with the belief that they can habitually treat me like this."  But I think you'd have to be clear with yourself that that's what you were doing, and be ready to lay down a boundary - maybe along the lines of "okay in the spirit of trying to be supportive I've listened to you vent angrily at me for 10 minutes now. That's as much as I'm prepared to take.  If we can have a conversation about this later on when we're both feeling calmer then great, but I'm not prepared to be your punchbag for another moment."  Then disengage immediately until they get back to you in a calmer frame of mind. 

And if they don't get back to you...then maybe that's a sign that you just attempted the impossible and that you're free from any obligation to keep trying.  Sometimes people just don't want to be reasonable.  Maybe they've decided they want to burn a bridge, or are on a mission to bulldoze over you, take offence/fly into a fury at everything you say and generally wrongfoot you at every turn.  I can remember encountering a guy like that professionally.  It shook me up enough that in a few telephone conversations with other women in the profession, I found a way of engineering it into the chattier part of our conversations.  That ressulted in several conversations where I spent about 20 minutes listening to horror stories from other women who'd had the same or worse experience.  Sometimes you need that reassurance that things went badly not so much because you said anything terribly wrong, but because there are other factors involved that you might not be fully aware of and that are completely outside your control - and, indeed, not your responsibility to address.

[elaine567]

How many men can bring up the subject of her weight/fitness/health to a woman and have it end well?
Not many.

You were completely foolish to bring it up in the first place and more especially since she had already dumped you and your position was shaky to say the least.
Her response was entirely predictable.

Woman want happiness, they want romance, they want love, they want to be told they are beautiful by their bf.
They do not want to be told they need to watch their health ie lose weight...
You were tactless and inappropriate in the circumstances and you got burned...

[vwisme]

48 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't like women who have extra weight on but it is pretty pointless dating them and then trying to change them.

I was not trying to change someone. I was bringing up a health issue that the very person having the issue already admitted to. I may have not clarified that well but it's not like this was out of left field or some goal I had conjured up for her. 

Would you say the same thing if a partner committed to a financial goal but was constantly overspending? Would you not have a similar conversation? Again, I could be completely misreading this and taking it too personal

[vwisme]

7 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

How many men can bring up the subject of her weight/fitness/health to a woman and have it end well?
Not many.

You were completely foolish to bring it up in the first place and more especially since she had already dumped you and your position was shaky to say the least.
Her response was entirely predictable.

Woman want happiness, they want romance, they want love, they want to be told they are beautiful by their bf.
They do not want to be told they need to watch their health ie lose weight...
You were tactless and inappropriate in the circumstances and you got burned...

I was tactless for bringing up a health issue? I'm sorry but ignoring an issue that someone you love is having is the antithesis of love. I did not rail her or berate her for it. I told her she was loved and she was beautiful but her unhealthy habits were an issue. 

I'm genuinely so lost and maybe I do not know how to speak to people but as someone who's been on the receiving end of this same conversation, it's wild to me to think about just walking away instead of broaching the subject. 

Edit: 

I was dumped but she was the one that came back asking for a second chance. So I never thought it was a perfect situation but a conversation that needed to happen nonetheless.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by vwisme

[glows]

It's best to tread lightly on these topics and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. I was married and had a vastly different diet from my ex-husband. He was into heavy lifting and work outs I couldn't have cared less about. I preferred being active outdoors and eating in moderation. His goal was to bulk up to be more muscular and maintain a certain weight. Mine was more cardiovascular and learning to pace myself over long distance sports.

You didn't agree with her outlook overall and it's not necessarily what she might have been eating or consuming but a distrust overall in her choices. That sort of distrust permeates through the whole relationship. It won't hold up long that way. You have to trust her to be able to care for her own body and health. If you don't, you're taking on a role you shouldn't be taking on. 

[vwisme]

I think I'm missing something because here's what I'm hearing.

Situation: My partner has committed to be healthier time and time again. Partner has not stuck with commitment and has gotten worse. I've been supportive and have made it a nonissue throughout the duration of the relationship until now. I've decided to take my health serious and upon the request of reconciling the relationship by said partner, lay down what I want in a relationship. 

What I'm hearing the majority of people say is just get up and leave since we obviously doesn't share the same values when it comes to health. 

Is that right? You don't talk to your partner? I'd rather someone tell me "this is what I need from you" and me not be able to meet it than them just get up and go

[glows]

20 minutes ago, vwisme said:

Is that right? You don't talk to your partner? I'd rather someone tell me "this is what I need from you" and me not be able to meet it than them just get up and go

You already said it once here: 

Quote

I tell her I've made some big health changes in my life (which she knows) and I want a partner that's the same.

(For the record, she had previously been working out a lot and getting in shape. But since got back together, she'd have large cheat meals. And not like a a cookie here or there but like a whole pizza, 4-5 cd disk size cookies, and then some.)

I let her know that I love her and I want to be with her but I also want to be with someone who takes their health seriously. 

Then you also brought up the topic in bed.

Quote

Well last night I told her I love her but if we are going to have a life together, she's got to get her health in order.

Quote

We were laying in bed 

This isn't an ordinary conversation or one built out of care and concern. If health, diet and habits came up over dinner with a host of other topics, it would be a different matter. That is two people sharing what they like and dislike, sharing laughs or commiserating, being interested in one another. 

These statements or comments you're making aren't really a conversation. They're quite left field and inappropriate also considering you were both in bed, relaxing or about to fall asleep or it might have been an opportunity to be intimate, loving and caring. That's the time when you should have been doing more of the "Iove" part that you keep reiterating. 

It is not wrong to discuss what your values are. The way you're doing it though suggests there are other issues and underlying problems you have personally that may not have anything to do with her. Approach matters a lot. It says a lot about a person and what frame of mind they're in, what cares they are able to afford mentally/emotionally to another person, where those statements are coming from overall and whether they're justified. 

[vwisme]

9 minutes ago, glows said:

Approach matters a lot.

Us laying in bed was what she decided for the conversation. She decided where and when. How is it left field if these were things previously decided upon by her? 

 

10 minutes ago, glows said:

The way you're doing it though suggests there are other issues and underlying problems you have personally that may not have anything to do with her.

They literally have everything to do with her. Not to get into her health history here but I've been with her through some real health/medical issues and scares so again, this isn't some "your body is awful and I can't stand it so I'm out" conversation. She's been in worse physical health and I didn't bat an eye. This was about choices she was making that are in her control.  

[spiderowl]

1 hour ago, vwisme said:

I was not trying to change someone. I was bringing up a health issue that the very person having the issue already admitted to. I may have not clarified that well but it's not like this was out of left field or some goal I had conjured up for her. 

Would you say the same thing if a partner committed to a financial goal but was constantly overspending? Would you not have a similar conversation? Again, I could be completely misreading this and taking it too personal

It sounds like it is possible there has been a misunderstanding between you and her.  You took her agreeing to look at her health concerns as her being dedicated to this.  She took it as meaning, if I feel like it.  In that sense, she has broken an agreement.  It is not a financial goal and I doubt she realised this was some sort of contract as you saw it.  None of us are perfect and we all want to think that love transcends petty things like the perfect figure.  In fact, most relationships continue despite the weight and shape of the partners changing.  She made a mistake in not taking you seriously.  She now knows that you were serious and that this was a line in the sand for you.  As a result, you have broken up. 

Are you happier now that you no longer have to be with someone who is overweight and does not have the same priorities as you?  That is the question really.  You can justify it to yourself in that she broke an agreement of some sort but is this the outcome you would have wanted.  What if she had not got offended and had still ignored your pleas to do something about her weight/health?  Would you have broken up with her?

The fact is, this relationship could not continue with you having these expectations of her.  She was not prepared to conform to your standards.

The sad fact is that many people are in relationships where the person ticks a lot of their boxes but fails in some.  Mostly people try to ignore the failures.  The question is whether they are things that can be ignored or not.  If your partner is perfect in every way but abuses you or cheats, you would probably not ignore the failures.  If they are perfect in every way but they like awful old movies, you will probably overlook that.  I suppose you now know that you are unable to tolerate being with someone who does not share the same health goals as you.  

Edited September 9, 2021 by spiderowl

[vwisme]

6 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

If your partner is perfect in every way but abuses you or cheats, you would probably not ignore the failures.  If they are perfect in every way but they like awful old movies, you will probably overlook that.

This statement alone lets me know you've never sat through some awful movies. lol

7 minutes ago, spiderowl said:

Are you happier now that you no longer have to be with someone who is overweight and does not have the same priorities as you?  That is the question really.  You can justify it to yourself in that she broke an agreement of some sort but is this the outcome you would have wanted.  What if she had not got offended and had still ignored your pleas to do something about her weight/health?  Would you have broken up with her?

 

All jokes aside, I think my biggest qualm is that a conversation did not emerge from it. Maybe we would have ended up breaking up later on down the line like you ask. Maybe health/weight is more important to me than her (or the other way around). My biggest wish was to just have a conversation that helped us track where we were going from there. 

All in all, I can't change the past and this is where we are now. My hope now is that we both move forward and find partner's better suited for us. And I chalk this up as a learning lesson to listen to actions. Not just words. With others and myself. 

[JRabbit]

Imagine wanting to end things with someone because they want to eat a whole pizza and *gasp* 3 or 4 CD sized cookies.

You can eat like that and still be fit and hot. Just an FYI.

[basil67]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:26 AM, vwisme said:

All jokes aside, I think my biggest qualm is that a conversation did not emerge from it.

That's because you issued an ultimatum.  

If you wanted a conversation you would have been something like "you've mentioned wanting to get healthier for a while and I see you're struggling. Is there anything I can do to help?"