What's the Deal With Flirting?

[Alpacalia]

How do you define flirting?

And, is it okay to flirt with others if he or she is dating but not in a relationship?

I ask because I recall being in the early stages of dating (where you're talking and getting to know someone) when they flirted with someone else in front of me, which was an instant turn off. It upset me because my ex in my last long-term relationship was a HUGE flirt, which caused some trust difficulties for me.

Simultaneously, I try to reflect on my own behavior, and there have been times when I am a little flirtatious with other men when I am just starting to talk to someone or have already been out on a few dates but am not in a relationship.

What are everyone's thoughts? 

[NYAG]

Within a relationship you need to define what counts as cheating / flirting to you. That can be anything from chatting to an ex to sexting someone on Tinder, to a drunken one night stand they don't even remember in the morning. It's what it looks like to you as an individual. If it makes you uncomfortable or you cannot trust someone because of the behaviour then it's flirting/cheating and it's unacceptable. You can make your own rules.

A few dates however, does not constitute a relationship. On a dating app for instance, someone might be chatting to several people. Matches come and go with alarming speed. You can't decide that early on who is going to become your next partner. You're allowed to keep your options open until you have both decided and agreed that you are in a relationship and then you agree between you what constitutes bad behaviour. The problem is, most of this is assumed, and no one seems to have these conversations before they get in too deep. 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Alpaca said:

How do you define flirting?

We love your posts 😍😘. They are delicious 💖👍.

[d0nnivain]

7 hours ago, Alpaca said:

How do you define flirting?

And, is it okay to flirt with others if he or she is dating but not in a relationship?

I don't have a great definition of flirting but I know it when I see it / do it kind of thing.  It's something a bit cheeky, slightly edgy, witty & ego boosting.  

I am a flirty girl.  My husband jokes I could no more stop flirting then I could stop breathing.  Like many things there are degrees.  I see no problem with occasional G rated banter.  Something more overt, especially a physical touch is over the top & not something to do if you are committed but  a low key exchange where everybody knows where the boundaries are & do not cross them is OK.  

This is cheesy but it's sooooo me.  If a male buddy of mine is telling me about a women in his life, I might say something flirty like "Go get 'em, Tiger."  The pet name thing is a bit flirtatious.  It's also no where near inappropriate the way a comment along the lines of "I'd like some of that" would be.  

Each couple has to figure out for themselves what is acceptable. It's a compatibility issue.   I have dated a few guys who thought my flirting was out of bounds.  Although I would always try to avoid being disrespectful to a SO, I also knew I could not sustain a relationship with somebody who lost his mind because I called a bartender or waiter "hon" or something else innocuous when I didn't know his name.  

[FMW]

Flirting to me is being extra friendly and involves more eye contact and joking (or not so joking) banter.

I'm still very friendly, but I watch how I interact with other men since I'm in a relationship and I feel it's disrespectful to my guy to interact in a flirty way, including being on the receiving end and letting it continue. 

We've never had a conversation about it, but from observation, my guy and I seem to be on the same page on that issue and he handles his interactions with women the same.  His job puts him in the position of being on the receiving end a lot, so I appreciate how he handles it.

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, NYAG said:

Within a relationship you need to define what counts as cheating / flirting to you.

I agree. But with "flirting" there just seems to be so many gray areas. 

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

We love your posts 😍😘. They are delicious 💖👍.

If only as good as yours. 🧜‍♂️

 😏🙂 

42 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Each couple has to figure out for themselves what is acceptable. It's a compatibility issue.   I have dated a few guys who thought my flirting was out of bounds.  Although I would always try to avoid being disrespectful to a SO, I also knew I could not sustain a relationship with somebody who lost his mind because I called a bartender or waiter "hon" or something else innocuous when I didn't know his name.  

Yes. I guess when/if it reaches that stage with someone in the future.

The past example I provided in my initial post, he flirted with someone in front of me and it was a bit sexual in nature. I felt jealous but it also kinda killed my attraction. But, I guess it's kind of good in a way because it helped me define what I am/am not comfortable with just in general terms.

30 minutes ago, FMW said:

We've never had a conversation about it, but from observation, my guy and I seem to be on the same page on that issue and he handles his interactions with women the same.  His job puts him in the position of being on the receiving end a lot, so I appreciate how he handles it.

That's good. I think it's pretty important too.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Alpaca

[mark clemson]

I think what NYAG says about keeping your options open in the early stages of dating is fair and reasonable. There needs to be "the exclusivity talk" before someone can feel they have locked you down.

Like Donnivain I actually like to flirt a lot. In my case, this essentially takes the form of "fun" conversation where there is more eye contact, smiling, and some body language indicating attraction/interest. Since I live in a large urban area there seems quite honestly to be an endless stream of women who are happy to have completely unnecessary conversations with me. Sometimes they are repeated several times, other times not. However, it doesn't lead to anything, nor should it.

I also generally don't start such conversations when I'm with my wife, although sometimes women will start them with me even though she is there. In my case I never make any overt sexual comments - it's simply not my style. So it is "mild" flirting I suppose. I have had women eventually make more direct overtures - things like grasping my hands, touching me, sitting in ways that make it easy to see their body, making comments that imply further interest or dissatisfaction with their marriages, etc, etc. I essentially gloss over these things as they happen, rather than escalating. Generally the woman will later tone it down a bit when there is no overt "escalating" response.

So, that is "flirting" to me.

[NYAG]

19 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I agree. But with "flirting" there just seems to be so many gray areas.

 

They are only grey because YOU haven't defined them. Your rules. Your grey areas.

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, NYAG said:

They are only grey because YOU haven't defined them. Your rules. Your grey areas.

Thanks NYAG.

Well, I can define them for myself initially, I just stopped talking to the person from my past example altogether (the guy that flirted sexually with someone else in front of me).

It just killed the momentum for me. 

But, I'm also trying to figure out what's reasonable/not reasonable in those early stages.

 

[NYAG]

16 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Thanks NYAG.

Well, I can define them for myself initially, I just stopped talking to the person from my past example altogether (the guy that flirted sexually with someone else in front of me).

It just killed the momentum for me. 

But, I'm also trying to figure out what's reasonable/not reasonable in those early stages.

 

Again those are your boundaries. Anyone you might be chatting with on a dating app and fixing a first date with might be chatting to 4 or 5 other people. Is that a deal breaker in those arly days? At what point do you decide you are exclusive or would you want the other person to delete their profile? I don't know there is much of a barometer for 'reasonable' because people's ideas of what is reasonable is so wide and varied and it varies massively between men and women. Personally I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to talk and meet exclusively with one person in those early days but it also depends on what you are doing on those dates. Are you heading out for dinner or are you sleeping together. Dinners out with several people to gauge interest might be one thing, but sleeping with all of them is probably a deal breaker in most people's books (except the person doing it).

[Alpacalia]

20 hours ago, NYAG said:

Again those are your boundaries. Anyone you might be chatting with on a dating app and fixing a first date with might be chatting to 4 or 5 other people. Is that a deal breaker in those arly days? At what point do you decide you are exclusive or would you want the other person to delete their profile? I don't know there is much of a barometer for 'reasonable' because people's ideas of what is reasonable is so wide and varied and it varies massively between men and women. Personally I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to talk and meet exclusively with one person in those early days but it also depends on what you are doing on those dates. Are you heading out for dinner or are you sleeping together. Dinners out with several people to gauge interest might be one thing, but sleeping with all of them is probably a deal breaker in most people's books (except the person doing it).

I'm not talking about dating apps as I realize that's a totally different ballgame.

Anyway, this thread has been helpful.

Definitely food for thought.

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

[snowboy91]

On 9/9/2021 at 9:39 PM, Alpaca said:

But with "flirting" there just seems to be so many gray areas. 

 

I think you're right here - and this is part of the problem. Boundaries are often assumed, rather than strictly defined. And within a relationship, a lot of people are really sensitive and jump to conclusions as to whether their partner is flirting with someone else - something that the partner thinks is innocent (and is objectively, fairly innocent) can still be considered as crossing a line. For some people it is merely having the audacity to even talk to someone of their preferred sex in a social setting.

Ultimately it's up to each of us to work out where our boundaries lie. For me personally, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt a lot and always assess on the situation at hand. For example, my current partner is good friends with an ex, but that relationship failed because they functioned well as friends, and had zero spark in the relationship, so I see no threat there. If they started meeting frequently on their own I'd be concerned, but that hasn't happened.

[salparadise]

On 9/10/2021 at 11:19 AM, Alpaca said:

But, I'm also trying to figure out what's reasonable/not reasonable in those early stages.

I've had a fair number of relationships in my time, and never-ever was there an actual conversation where we defined what was allowed or disallowed with respect to flirting or interaction with others. And I don't recall having any problems as a result of that either. If you're with someone, new or not, be respectful and keep it congruent if you want things to work out. Flirting with someone else in front of your date is crass behavior regardless. If I was on a date and the woman did that I'd have the same reaction you did with the guy who flirted in your presence. It's not about whether you're formally exclusive, it's about common decency and etiquette –– don't flirt in front of a date or a long-term partner. Period.

I scratch my head in amazement when people talk about the necessity of defining the rules of conduct. Am I and all of my previous partners weird because we seem to have an intuitive understanding?

[elaine567]

Flirting is one of the personality traits that are associated with cheating.
Lax  boundaries tend to lead to crossing of lines.

[NYAG]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

I've had a fair number of relationships in my time, and never-ever was there an actual conversation where we defined what was allowed or disallowed with respect to flirting or interaction with others. And I don't recall having any problems as a result of that either. If you're with someone, new or not, be respectful and keep it congruent if you want things to work out. Flirting with someone else in front of your date is crass behavior regardless. If I was on a date and the woman did that I'd have the same reaction you did with the guy who flirted in your presence. It's not about whether you're formally exclusive, it's about common decency and etiquette –– don't flirt in front of a date or a long-term partner. Period.

I scratch my head in amazement when people talk about the necessity of defining the rules of conduct. Am I and all of my previous partners weird because we seem to have an intuitive understanding?

I also never had good early communication in my relationships, which is in part why I've had so many problems with all of them. I've now discovered that pre-communication before you get in too deep is absolutely crucial. Then, even if things go wrong, noone can say 'I assumed' or 'but I thought'.

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, snowboy91 said:

Ultimately it's up to each of us to work out where our boundaries lie. For me personally, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt a lot and always assess on the situation at hand. For example, my current partner is good friends with an ex, but that relationship failed because they functioned well as friends, and had zero spark in the relationship, so I see no threat there. If they started meeting frequently on their own I'd be concerned, but that hasn't happened.

 

5 hours ago, salparadise said:

I scratch my head in amazement when people talk about the necessity of defining the rules of conduct. Am I and all of my previous partners weird because we seem to have an intuitive understanding?

I've experienced that too. Never discussed "rules" and I suppose there was an intuitive understanding as mentioned.

One past relationship that I recall - he was fairly gregarious, and women were drawn to him in droves; he had a lot of female acquaintances, but I never felt intimidated by it since our relationship was pretty solid. We were much like best friends, so perhaps that made a difference.

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Flirting is one of the personality traits that are associated with cheating.
Lax  boundaries tend to lead to crossing of lines.

Lax boundaries, yes.

But being flirtatious in general? Possibly.

 

 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

But being flirtatious in general? 

Yes.

[Weezy1973]

What I see as sometimes causing issues are when someone is attracted to flirty people and wants to date them, but then once they’re in a relationship struggles with the flirtatious nature of their partner.  
 

I’ve never been attracted to flirty women, so not an issue for me, but I know some guys who struggle with this. If the flirting is special and aimed at someone they’re attracted to / interested in then it’s all good. But if it’s just random or for the ego boost, it kind of loses its appeal.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Weezy1973

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

What I see as sometimes causing issues are when someone is attracted to flirty people and wants to date them, but then once they’re in a relationship struggles with the flirtatious nature of their partner.  

That is an interesting observation.

However, a person can sometimes attract folks who are inherently flirtatious.

I've gotten my fair share.

But to @elaine567, I can't say I am 100% convinced.

My uncle and aunt, for example, he was a big flirt, she wasn't, and they were married for 30+ years and genuinely in love till she died. No cheating. I believe that the reasons people flirt in general, rather than just being "flirty," must be considered, and if they have strong ethical principles.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Alpaca

[Weezy1973]

A couple of interesting quotes from this article:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wellandgood.com/is-flirting-cheating/amp/

“…there’s an inverse correlation between relationship satisfaction and flirting. The less secure a couple is, the more things they’ll flag as flirting.” Meaning, if you’re happy in your relationship, you’re theoretically less likely to register any flirting behavior from your partner as problematic.”

And:

“The distinction between harmless flirting and something more sinister is the element of secrecy. If you don’t want your partner finding out about it, it’s probably cheating, not flirting.” 

[Lotsgoingon]

There is a fine line between being charming and being flirtatious. Very fine. So going up to that line or briefly crossing every now and then doesn't have to be a big deal. 

But chronic flirting can be a problem--obviously. 

 

[glows]

5 hours ago, Alpaca said:

That is an interesting observation.

However, a person can sometimes attract folks who are inherently flirtatious.

I've gotten my fair share.

But to @elaine567, I can't say I am 100% convinced.

My uncle and aunt, for example, he was a big flirt, she wasn't, and they were married for 30+ years and genuinely in love till she died. No cheating. I believe that the reasons people flirt in general, rather than just being "flirty," must be considered, and if they have strong ethical principles.

What is flirtatious or not is subjective so individuals or couples are bound to have different thresholds for what’s acceptable. 

I wouldn’t assume too much about another person’s or others’ relationships especially elder generations. It’s a different time, different norms and double standards when it comes to what’s acceptable between men vs women. What may be ideal on the outset may not be what actually goes on behind closed doors. If your aunt and uncle had a happy relationship they may have wanted others to know that or be remembered that way.

What matters is what you’re comfortable with and the only other opinion that matters on what you do or how you conduct yourself is your partner’s. I agree with you on the holistic approach but I also don’t put it past principled individuals to test and bend boundaries or cheat. I’m not attracted to flirty personalities so will move away from it if I sense that. It doesn’t have anything to do with expecting the person to test limits or boundaries. It’s a non-starter personally so unfortunately it won’t go anywhere. 

[introverted1]

Flirting is fun, assuming flirting = banter than doesn't necessarily have an end goal.

That said, I would never flirt when I was with my SO or even on a date; that's just rude.  And once I'm in a relationship with someone, I cut down on flirting even when I'm on my own, because it's easy for others to misconstrue the flirting as a signal, and there's an ick factor (for me) in sort of leading a guy to the well and then telling him he can't drink from it.

I'd have been turned off, too, if a guy I was on a date with was flirting with someone else.

[Alpacalia]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

A couple of interesting quotes from this article:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wellandgood.com/is-flirting-cheating/amp/

“…there’s an inverse correlation between relationship satisfaction and flirting. The less secure a couple is, the more things they’ll flag as flirting.” Meaning, if you’re happy in your relationship, you’re theoretically less likely to register any flirting behavior from your partner as problematic.”

And:

“The distinction between harmless flirting and something more sinister is the element of secrecy. If you don’t want your partner finding out about it, it’s probably cheating, not flirting.” 

Thank you for sharing that article.

I believe I agree with many of the points made. Other points, I'm still considering.

In retrospect, the four-year relationship I mentioned earlier had a high level of relationship satisfaction. I felt so safe in that relationship, that his flamboyant nature and women flirting with him in kind wasn't bothersome. My preceding long-term relationship, on the other hand, had a very different dynamic.

The explanation of flirting and how it expresses disrespect in the article is noteworthy. So many behaviors can be construed as disrespectful depending on context.

Something to think about.

7 hours ago, glows said:

What matters is what you’re comfortable with and the only other opinion that matters on what you do or how you conduct yourself is your partner’s. I agree with you on the holistic approach but I also don’t put it past principled individuals to test and bend boundaries or cheat. I’m not attracted to flirty personalities so will move away from it if I sense that. It doesn’t have anything to do with expecting the person to test limits or boundaries. It’s a non-starter personally so unfortunately it won’t go anywhere. 

Yes.

I understand that flirting can lead to dishonest behaviors that undermine committed partnerships, but I wonder if flirtatiousness provides more opportunities to cheat rather than having a greater proclivity to cheat. But then, if there is greater opportunity, isn't it more likely that infidelity will occur?

 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Alpaca

[glows]

2 hours ago, Alpaca said:

 

I understand that flirting can lead to dishonest behaviors that undermine committed partnerships, but I wonder if flirtatiousness provides more opportunities to cheat rather than having a greater proclivity to cheat. But then, if there is greater opportunity, isn't it more likely that infidelity will occur?

Maybe or maybe not. It depends on the individuals. I think there are other factors involved like respect for ones's partner and each other's partners. Some people have less restraint or are risk-takers also. It's very subjective.