Love? Obsession? or Something Else?

[Old Aussie]

Sorry, this will be a long intro.
I'm in my 50's, my kids are all adults, but still part of my life, and I love them all dearly.  I loved my (ex) wife, and it hurt like heck when she walked out on us, nearly 4 years ago.  Took me a while to get over the shock, a bit more to get past the hurt, and longer still to be nolonger in-love with her.
I tried a bit of online dating, but it didn't really click for me.  I am generally a level headed, rational kind of guy.  I'm a bit lonely for female companionship, but not desperate. 
I'll admit to my faults, one of which is sometimes meeting women and thinking "I wonder if she's single?".  But that's about it.   In forming friendships, (eg at work) I tend to gravitate more towards other men, although TBH our industry remains heavily male dominated.  But I have over recent years had strong Plutonic Friendships with a couple of female co-workers.  I'm good at my job, a nice guy, and generally a friendly, helpful, and considerate co-worker and/or boss.

So, a couple of months back I started working with somebody new, a lady.  I'm hopeless at guessing ages, but I would say around my age.  Looks older, but could be younger with a lot of sun damage.  Not "classically beautiful" but to me always seemed radiant.  She's good at her job, diligent, committed, and has a wonderful personality.  
Had you asked me a few months ago to list the attributes of somebody I might be attracted to, she would not have ticked any of those boxes.
Yet I have to say that over these past weeks, I have become increasingly delighted with her presence.  Corresponding with this, has been massive positive changes in my life.  I have gone from feeling hopeless, and not really caring about things, to being positive and making huge positive changes in my life.

The company that we worked for had massive problems, and cleaning up the mess was becoming an overwhelming burden.  Yet I still looked forward to work every day.  When either of us was not in the office, I found myself missing her.  Being absolutely honest, I hoped that we'd become friends outside of work, and found myself interested in attending event that I knew would interested her.
I knew that she had been offered a better job elsewhere, and I was worried that she would leave and I'd be stuck cleaning up the mess on my own.  (We work in a area you could say was "Technical Management.")
She accepted a role with another company, but told them she would only go if they hire me also.  (Our roles are essentially complementary within our field, but hers is more important and harder to fill.)  I was amazed and gratified by her loyalty, and began to hope that perhaps she appreciated me almost as much as I did her.  So we were both offered and accepted roles with the new company.
I told her how much I appreciated her loyalty, that I really enjoyed working with her, and that I was excited by the prospect of working together for the new company.

I know that often I am no good at concealing my feelings, so it's possible she was aware of the depth of my feelings towards her.  Or not.  I'm also terrible at reading others, so I have no idea what her feelings (or lack of) were towards me.  

Our existing company was trying to get us to stay.  I knew this and tried to discuss this with her.  She made excuses.  I assumed that she was determined to leave and did not want to discuss it.  However in a meeting, in which certain promises were made, she suddenly reversed her decision and agreed to stay.  I agreed to think on it, but then vacillated for a a few days.  I found it very hard to make a clear decision.  The only reason for staying was my desire to reciprocate the loyalty she had shown, and yes that I wanted to continue working with her.  I made that clear to her, but I believed that my vacillation annoyed her.  The decision was complicated for me because I found out that our existing boss had been outright lying to me.  (He had already hired, and mobilised my replacement, but repeatedly denied any knowledge and lied to my face about this.)  I tried to explain this to her, and said that I valued her opinion on the matter.  Yes, I was hoping she would say "I need you to stay" and I would have stayed.  (Even though I believed my boss planned to fire me later.)  However she actually became quite angry and dismissive.

After considering the issues as carefully as I could, I decided that I couldn't work for somebody who repeatedly lied to my face, especially as it meant I would be living in fear of what he might do next.  I was angry at him, but not in any way with her.  I was however doubting that she reciprocated my feelings for her, and realised that if I "stayed for her" it would put her in a difficult position if things went sour between me and our lying boss.  I explained my decision and my reason to her.  She was polite, friendly, and supportive, but basically said goodbye.  

I have started with the new company, and I am loving it.  No Regrets on that score.  But I miss her.  And most alarmingly I have realised that my current positive outlook is entirely based on the hope that she will reconsider and decide to join me.  I find that I literally cannot imagine my life without her in it.  So is this love, obsession, or something else?  Literally trying to envision myself in a scenario in which she doesn't come over, triggers something akin to an existential crisis.  I have tried to maintain casual contact, without being a pest.  The occasional email or text.  Mostly asking how things are, how the new guys is settling in, if I can be of any help.  She doesn't reply.  I tried to ring, and she didn't pickup.

I don't know what to do.  The irony is that if I told her I was falling apart without her (which is starting to look increasingly likely) she is such a wonderful person that she would probably come.  But I do actually respect her reasons for staying, and I would never play a low card like that.

I have no idea what she thinks of me, and no idea how to improve that.  (I could certainly be romantic enough in an already romantic relationship, but ours never was, nor is that actually the goal, so I'm fresh out of ideas.)

I am well aware that the most likely outcome is that I never see her again.  I'm also well aware that once that reality sinks in, I am going to plunge into a very deep dark hole.)

[FMW]

First the bad:  I think if she had personal/affectionate feelings for you she would not be ignoring your attempts to communicate.  

Now the good:  You now know you can be excited by and attracted strongly to a woman other than your ex.  This alone should make you feel hopeful.  It also sounds like you made a great job move.  Focus on that and look forward to what will come in the future, personally and professionally.

I was so happy after a long, failed marriage to know that I could really feel again.  That greatly influenced how attached I became to the first person I became involved with, and I'm betting the same is true in your case.  

There are other women you will connect with, and probably find even more attractive. Women who will return your interest and effort.  Don't keep holding on to one who's not.

 

 

[chillii]

Hi op.

Tbh , she sounds pretty prickly all things considered over all. l don't think l'd be thinking any of the nice ways she's acted toward you in more than a professional and a liking sense, enjoying working together type thing. But even that seems to be when it suits her. She might have a nice work persona , or again when it suits shows you a loyalty but she doesn't sound too stable deep down.

l know you miss her but never forget life can turn in a heartbeat as you know for sure l know. But new people come and go and some are hard to replace but it does happen , and sometimes not too. But it's amazing in that there will be other people you connect with in those ways and even more , even better, and other females or a new love that are real.

Butttt, there's also just one tiny possibility l wanna through out there for any of the women that drop in. ORRR, could it be that she maybe actually did have a romantic interest. ?  What do ya think.  She's acting like a wronged gf now , and when he explained.

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by chillii

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Old Aussie said:

my current positive outlook is entirely based on the hope that she will reconsider and decide to join me.  So is this love, obsession, or something else? 

Sounds like you lifted out of a dark place an everything looks better now.

Stay friends, network, perhaps connect on LinkedIn, but there's too much comingling of work stuff and wanting to date again.

Now that you are feeling more positive get a good profile and pics on some quality dating apps and start talking to and meeting women for a low key coffee.

As far as this woman, it's nice to get along with someone and enjoy coworkers but a lot of this "loyalty' stuff is too mired in work and simply appreciating a friendly person.

[Lotsgoingon]

The good news here is that you are alive and can feel and can be attracted to someone.

The bad news is that she isn't interested in you as a romantic partner. And she might have gotten snitty with you because she perceived your attraction that she doesn't have.

Hey, keep going. If one person can lift your spirits, then others can. You got life in you. 

[chillii]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

The good news here is that you are alive and can feel and can be attracted to someone.

The bad news is that she isn't interested in you as a romantic partner. And she might have gotten snitty with you because she perceived your attraction that she doesn't have.

Hey, keep going. If one person can lift your spirits, then others can. You got life in you. 

 

Yeah thought l'd throw it out there but it did sound more of a shut it down thing.

[JRabbit]

Its better this way, you shouldn't date where you work! Why not just text her and ask her out?

[spiderowl]

Sadly, it is not good news that she is not responding to your messages.  This signals to me that she has closed down from you.

You say that you were vacillating about the job change and she got angry about that.  A person who cared about you would not get angry because you were uncertain about something; that suggests to me she cared more about career advancement than anything else.

I don't know what has happened here but I don't think she felt romantically involved with you and now she does not seem interested in keeping up communication.

It is possible you were reading more into it all than was there.  Another possibility is that she is a manipulative person - why else would she have tried to uproot you from your job?  It seems highly dodgy to me.

[Old Aussie]

and...  she responded to one of my emails, very friendly and positive, so now everything is right with the world again...

yeah, not sure how long I can ride this roller-coaster.

I should also be clear, whilst naturally I would be thrilled if she reciprocated my level of interest, all I really want at this point is for us to be friends.  Whilst I wanted to make sure my feelings weren't so obvious as to cause awkwardness, I was ok with the idea that she might never feel the same way about me.  
She is still trying to fully extricate herself from a particularly nasty breakup, so last thing I wanted to do was create pressure.  Also, I thought I had plenty of time...
 

I understand, and do completely respect her reasons for staying, but if there was anything I could do to change the circumstances, I would.  

I don't really understand this.  I'm not by nature needy, or possessive, or prone to attachment issues.  I don't know, but I imagine this is how an addict feels about getting his daily fix.

[glows]

I'd give it a few months for things to settle. She's going through a break up so be considerate and respectful of that.

Working for different employers gives you both more leeway and breathing room should you be romantically interested in one another in the distant future. This works in your favour. Stay focused on your new position and don't self-sabotage. Even if she's open to a romance with you, you may be just a rebound. Just something to keep in mind.

 

 

 

[Old Aussie]

what I am struggling most with is understanding myself

I remember being a bit gaga when first in love with my (ex) wife, but that was a long time ago.
I have chatted to women and even dated a bit over the past year or two, even been attracted, but never felt anything like this.  This is so completely unusual for me.  I honestly wasn't even "passively" looking.  Haven't bothered with even trying to date for a long time.
I know this sounds weird and pathetic, and overly dramatic, but she has changed my life.  

I know she gets stressed out at work, and so I try to avoid adding to that.  
Other than that, I'm utterly clueless.

Keep in mind that my natural inclination is to think that no woman would be interested in being my friend, much less have a romantic interest.  So I'm happy to proceed on that assumption.
In that case I wouldn't want the depth of my feelings to be obvious, in case it creates awkwardness, causes her to shy away, or compels her to bluntly tell me to naff off.
And I WOULD have been more than happy just working together, and seeing what developed over time.
I am still clinging to the hope that will happen, despite all logical evidence to the contrary.
But I also worry, that given my cluelessness in this regard, I might have missed something.  That she feels let-down that I have left, and that I may have bungled something truly wonderful.

[chillii]

 

Nah that one's pretty easy , won't come out and say it though don't wanna scare ya haha but lets just say she's obviously very very different to the rest for you.

Nice that she's replied anyway and it opens doors now for you guys to possibly continue , possibly in an even better situation really once the dust settles as you won't be working together. And that also gives you reason to meet and even catch up outside of work now too , if she might be interested later on, hmmm.

[Old Aussie]

I think part of the problem now, is that because we're not going to be working together, and I don't have that to rely on, and because I now know the effect of that, I am stressing over this, and yeah starting to obsess, which isn't healthy.
I'm scared, and don't know what to do.  I always figured that with us working together for the foreseeable future, there would be plenty of time for things to find their natural level.  Even if (worst-case scenario) she showed no interest in even being friends outside of work, I'd have our working relationship to sustain me and time to adapt to the reality.

I'm 99% sure that she had not developed feelings for me in that short space of time (not 100% sure how I developed the feelings I have).  But I wasn't in a rush, and figured there was plenty of time to see if she would.  And honestly, I was happy with the idea that my feelings wouldn't be reciprocated, but as long as I didn't make things awkward and we continued working together.

I suppose there is that little pipe-dream that she does have feelings, I'll confess my love, and everything will be wonderful, but I know that's not the case.

What I can't deal with is the idea of her not being in my life in any way. 
If anything the "dreaming" has become more important because it's the only way I can presently face the future.

There's part of me that wants to confess all, but then I realise that even if that makes me feel better and resolves the issue once and for all, it would be incredibly selfish.  I honest don't know how women (and her in particular) would perceive such a declaration?  Flattering, Disturbing, Embarrassing?
It also runs completely contrary to the idea of giving things time.

[Wiseman2]

Don't "confess" anything. It's burdensome.

Instead find another muse or inspiration.

Preferably someone you don't work with and someone you're actually dating.

Try not to get stuck in fantasyland.

[Yosemite]

She took a huge risk for you by saying that she wouldn't accept the job unless they hired you. Most employers would not have accepted that and would've just hired the next best person...so she could've very easily lost that job opportunity.

Then for whatever reason, she decides to stay at the old job and do you do the same for her that she did for you? Nope. You leave the old job...you had a good reason, but she had a good reason to accept the new job without even bothering to bargain for a new position for you. Now you have a new job entirely because of her and she's left in the dust at the old job. So, she's probably a bit peeved about that.

5 hours ago, Old Aussie said:

There's part of me that wants to confess all, but then I realise that even if that makes me feel better and resolves the issue once and for all, it would be incredibly selfish.  I honest don't know how women (and her in particular) would perceive such a declaration?  Flattering, Disturbing, Embarrassing?

The absolute only thing for you to do is to ask her out on a date. Don't confess, don't wait for her feelings to build (feelings are meant to build while dating) just ask her out. You can wait a while for her to get over her break up, but I don't see much point in that.

[chillii]

 

Don't think he could do the same his boss went behind his back. Or with the new job either bc meanwhile she's back talking with the old bosses- or something like that. lt sure has an ironic twist to it though.

ps. l agree with others op, def' don't go confessing right now.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by chillii

[Old Aussie]

23 hours ago, Yosemite said:

She took a huge risk for you by saying that she wouldn't accept the job unless they hired you. Most employers would not have accepted that and would've just hired the next best person...so she could've very easily lost that job opportunity.
Then for whatever reason, she decides to stay at the old job and do you do the same for her that she did for you? Nope. You leave the old job...you had a good reason, but she had a good reason to accept the new job without even bothering to bargain for a new position for you. Now you have a new job entirely because of her and she's left in the dust at the old job. So, she's probably a bit peeved about that.

Thanks.
This is something I finally realised, far too late.  I should have stayed.
I had good reasons not to, but my commitment should have been worth more than that.

[JRabbit]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:11 AM, Old Aussie said:

what I am struggling most with is understanding myself

I remember being a bit gaga when first in love with my (ex) wife, but that was a long time ago.
I have chatted to women and even dated a bit over the past year or two, even been attracted, but never felt anything like this.  This is so completely unusual for me.  I honestly wasn't even "passively" looking.  Haven't bothered with even trying to date for a long time.
I know this sounds weird and pathetic, and overly dramatic, but she has changed my life.  

I know she gets stressed out at work, and so I try to avoid adding to that.  
Other than that, I'm utterly clueless.

Keep in mind that my natural inclination is to think that no woman would be interested in being my friend, much less have a romantic interest.  So I'm happy to proceed on that assumption.
In that case I wouldn't want the depth of my feelings to be obvious, in case it creates awkwardness, causes her to shy away, or compels her to bluntly tell me to naff off.
And I WOULD have been more than happy just working together, and seeing what developed over time.
I am still clinging to the hope that will happen, despite all logical evidence to the contrary.
But I also worry, that given my cluelessness in this regard, I might have missed something.  That she feels let-down that I have left, and that I may have bungled something truly wonderful.

Up thread you said you weren’t interested in a relationship and only friendship but then you make this comment…..so are you truly wanting just friendship because it seems like you hope for more? Why not be honest with yourself?

 

 

[chillii]

How could you have stayed though with your boss already plotting ?

ps, l think that ones pretty obvious JR but eh , l'll leave it up to op.

Edited September 13, 2021 by chillii

[Old Aussie]

Being honest with myself isn't the issue, although understanding might be.

I think I've been pretty clear as to the shape and depth of my feelings towards her.  How they've come to be what they are, and the depth thereof, remains somewhat of a mystery, as is the question of classification.

I was more than happy to just be working with her, and to see how things developed over time.  I highly doubt she currently reciprocates my feelings, and I was ok with that.  The positivity in my life didn't require it.  I figured that over time things might develop, or my feelings might be tempered, or my positivity could become less dependent, and/or I could learn to adjust.  Unfortunately that plan got screwed up, and I don't know how to fix it.

The new job is a good one, with many positives and without the drama and politics.
But I find myself completely disinterested.
Being here without her was never the plan, never the goal.

[Wiseman2]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:11 AM, Old Aussie said:

1.Love?

2.Obsession? or

3.Something Else?

I think it's 3.Something else.

Loneliness.

Date outside of work. You'll feel better and resolve this dilemma.

[DividedTrail]

I can relate in some sense to what you are feeling. You feel a little broken, you said you are clueless about women and usually assume a women wouldn’t want to date you. You also talk about how this women makes you feel and that hasn’t happened for a long time. 
 

First you need to have a conversation with yourself. There are plenty of women that would want to date you. And some number of them would make you feel ‘it’. And they would feel ‘it’ with you too. You need to work on that self esteem. Easier said than done I know. 
 

Second, and I’ve been there too but you have put this women on a pedestal. You are smitten and playing the waiting game. If only I wait long enough or say the right thing it will all come together. The fact is you don’t really know her. All you have for the most part is what you have built up in your mind. Your feelings are real but the fantasy you have is not. 
 

I think you do need to ask her out for your own sanity. Don’t write a 2 page soliloquy, just a short, been thinking about you and wanted to know if I could take you out on a date for dinner Friday night. Now you might need to think about the timing since you said she’s trying to clean up a bad breakup and she might not be ready. Hell, she might not be interested in a date with you but at least you will know. 
 

Either you ask her out or you need to start to date again and see what might happen and keep this relationship causal/professional. 

[Old Aussie]

I'm not sure it was the right thing to do, but I did try asking her out, to go see a popular Comedian.  No reply.
It was a gamble, possibly a mistake, and it would have been a pleasant shock had she accepted.

I suppose the question is how to move on.  She's not going to be in my life, in any way, and that makes me miserable.  It's making it very hard to see any positivity in the new job.  This is always going to be "the project we should have done together."
I guess time will dull everything, but I'm thinking I need to make a complete break.

Thanks to everyone suggesting I should date, but that was never the point.  I'm not lonely, I'm not searching or even looking, and have no real interest in dating.

[chillii]

How long ago ? she might reply yet could even be a wk or two.

l don't think it was a mistake , alright might've been a bit early given her situation , but you bit the bullet and so be it , done, lets see what pans out first of all. lf she's feeling any of the good stuff she may well be back to you yet and she'd probably explain , she'll need a few wks, few mths first, when she's better, whatever. And if she isn't well , she might just lay low or fade away . Either way , sooner or later you deep down would've liked to know so you might well find out now,  either way !

ps , if you were doing that together but she wasn't romantically interested in the long run then really , your better off without it .

Edited September 15, 2021 by chillii

[Old Aussie]

Ok, so read my other thread if you want the backstory, but my question here comes down to this:
A former co-worker, we left it on good turns.  She'd even asked me how the new job was going, and some related questions.

I saw ad ad for a Popular Comedian visiting our City, and on impulse sent her a text, asking if she had plans or would like to go.
Now of all the responses I thought I might get...
"Are you asking me out on a date???"
"Nah, I've got plans"
"Not really my thing"
"No thanks"

But instead I just got silence.  No reply.  Nothing

Now yes, I have feelings for her, but I haven't told her, or confessed my undying devotion, or anything that would scare her off.  As I said, we seemed to be on good terms.
I was prepared to be turned down, in some way or form.  What I wasn't prepared for was to be completely ignored.

But I don't know, is this normal?
Is this how women generally deal with a request from somebody they're not interested in?