Dropped off like garbage

[liswil]

...Lisl, I re-read your first post just now. Am I correct in thinking your MM met up with you that day and told you he had told his wife about you over the weekend? This being immediately after your bust up with him when you'd mentioned letting his wife know?

 

Did you ever have proof of this? Or did you just have his word?

 

If you have no other evidence to prove he told her, I suspect he didn't but used it as an excuse,probably in reaction to the possibility of you spilling the beans.

 

I wonder if she's as much in the dark as she always was? Just wondering.

 

V x

 

No, I believed her told her. I believed he hated keeping it in too because that's the type of person he is. However, I also believe he told her a version that was way different than what really happened.

 

I called their house about a week ago since he wouldn't answer his cell phone about my earring I lost in his car. She answered. I was going to hang up but talked to her. She agreed that he told her about me. I told her my version sorta. Not much but a few things.

 

I have a feeling HIS version was this:

 

I talk to this girl at work who wants my help finding a job. Her dad died so she asked me to come by. I came by to console her and we had a few drinks and came onto me. I stopped her before it got too far telling her I was married. We both realized it was wrong and after that we just talked at work occasionally.

 

He could say all that and technically not totally be lying.

[crazy_grl]

So all of a sudden now you see him as a decent, moral person?

 

Since Coco didn't respond to this and it jumped out at me, I'm going to offer my opinion on it. Firstly, I didn't see anywhere that Coco said that. Also, people are not either moral/good or immoral/evil. One person can do aweful things and wonderful things. In the case Coco was talking about, MM did something that might be admirable and/or good. He is fulfilling his commitment to his wife and making a contract with her in counseling. Unfortunately for you, you got the s***ty end of that stick (From your perspective. I think really you came out ahead by having a loser exit your life though.). Like it or not, reconsiling a marriage is admirable. Of course, if he's continuing to lie to her and/or cheating with other women, that aspect is not admirable.

 

Lis, I was glad to see you standing up for yourself. It's a welcome change from the self-degradation and doom and gloom. However, I don't think I can accept your word that you have very little mean spiritedness in you. You were quite unreasonably mean before people started saying those inappropriate and aweful things to you, and you said mean things to people who never wished you ill. I don't think you've done it because you're a bad person though, but because you lack the self-confidence to ignore unfounded attacks and to not view things as attacks which are not intended that way. You lashed back at people in a hurtful manner without first thinking from their perspective and considering whether they were trying to be helpful or not, and whether you would hurt their feelings if they were.

 

In that way, you're being very selfish. I can understand why you would be that way. I don't think you're a bad person for it, but I hope that you'll recognize it and make effort to change that.

 

I don't know if you're one for reading self-help books. I know I didn't used to be. I thought they were only for complete losers, but I've started reading some and they can be quite helpful. Some good ones that might help you are "Are You the One for Me?" by Barbara De Angelis. It could help you see that you're much better off without MM and that he wasn't a good match for you anyway. Some parts might make you sad, but overall, I think it'll be a great help. Also, "Do One Thing Different" by Bill O'hanlon is a good one that might help you pick yourself up.

 

Also Lis, I'm curious to know if anything I've said has been any help to you. I've made a few posts that I put a lot of time and thought into because I want to see you get better. If I'm not helping or you're not even putting any thought into what I've said, I won't post anymore.

[crazy_grl]

I have been meaning to write a respose to this thread since someone (err... no idea, hope it wasn't you!) said that they would accept my position on this but that lis was just setting fire to any 'ropes' sent to her.

 

I wanted to say that lis doesn't see those things as ropes. You (all, whoever) might as well be dangling snakes. That's all she sees. I'm hazarding a guess here because I am just thinking myself back into those days I went through myself

 

It was me who said she's burning the ropes. And the fact that she sees them as snakes is the point.

 

When someone offers you help and advice and you lash out at them because you don't like what they said (not including when they attack you like some people did), that's extremely self-absorbed and inconsiderate. How can someone expect to be get love and understanding when they fail to see that it's right in front of their face, and instead of accepting it, they lash back at the person offering it?

 

For example, when one poster suggested getting a puppy or a new hairdo, etc. because it's what worked for them, the polite and considerate thing to do would be to thank that person, but tell them that you don't think it will work for you. The selfish, rude, and inconsiderate thing to do would be to tell that person that their idea was dumb and that you're not a child who can be placated with shiny new things (like Lis did). Lis may has well have been telling the poster, who was only offering support and advice, that they are nothing more than a child. Lis offered hostility and hurtful words and that's what she ended up getting back from other people. Had she offered gratitude and kindess, I think she would have gotten that back.

 

Lis, I think that's the main answer to all your issues with loneliness and even self-esteem. I know I could very well be wrong, but I could also be right, so I hope that you'll think about that. Then you can stop pushing love and friendship away and start accepting it when it's right in front of you.

[Owl]

Lis-

 

Interesting. I just read your response to my advice...and I've completely skipped over all of the other posts since then simply to make a point to you.

 

You did EXACTLY what everyone said you would do when I posted on this thread. You completely ignored the ADVICE, and simply picked out the parts that made you feel bad.

 

Now...I'm going to make a blunt statement. It's not an attack, although I'm sure you'll take it as one. I mean this as an eye-opening thought for you.

 

How about you stop with looking for the pity and sympathy, and start actively doing something like following the advice that I and many others have given you? Quit looking for all the excuses, and start DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

I didn't post advice on your thread hoping to hear about how it made you think about MM...NO ONE DOES. I posted suggestions hoping that you would take a moment and THINK about what you can do to improve your situation. Now....are you going to do something to improve your situation, or would you prefer to continue this thread in the hopes of more sympathy? The choice IS yours to make...

[liswil]

Like it or not, reconsiling a marriage is admirable. Of course, if he's continuing to lie to her and/or cheating with other women, that aspect is not admirable.

 

Well......considering he was messing around with me since being in marriage counseling since January, I don't really know if MC or signing a contract is going to work with him.

 

 

Lis, I was glad to see you standing up for yourself. It's a welcome change from the self-degradation and doom and gloom. However, I don't think I can accept your word that you have very little mean spiritedness in you. You were quite unreasonably mean before people started saying those inappropriate and aweful things to you, and you said mean things to people who never wished you ill.

 

Well, if you tell me the posts where I did that, I will gladly address it. I won't, however, take blanket statements made about me without something to back it up. You're entitled to your opinion though.

 

 

Also Lis, I'm curious to know if anything I've said has been any help to you. I've made a few posts that I put a lot of time and thought into because I want to see you get better. If I'm not helping or you're not even putting any thought into what I've said, I won't post anymore.

 

You've said some things in this post which were somewhat helpful. Besides that though, I'd have to say no. In fact, your posts were making me feel suicidal.

[liswil]

 

For example, when one poster suggested getting a puppy or a new hairdo, etc. because it's what worked for them, the polite and considerate thing to do would be to thank that person, but tell them that you don't think it will work for you. The selfish, rude, and inconsiderate thing to do would be to tell that person that their idea was dumb and that you're not a child who can be placated with shiny new things (like Lis did).

 

I'm to the point. I'm not flowery. Besides that I was too upset to pretend to be flowery. It wouldn't matter anyway. If I said "Thanks but getting something to distract me doesn't work for me." I'd be told that I'm just blowing off suggestions anyway--I don't think I'd get gratitude back. Can't win.

 

 

Lis, I think that's the main answer to all your issues with loneliness and even self-esteem. I know I could very well be wrong, but I could also be right, so I hope that you'll think about that. Then you can stop pushing love and friendship away and start accepting it when it's right in front of you.

 

 

Are you saying I pushed MM away?

[liswil]

Lis-

 

Interesting. I just read your response to my advice...and I've completely skipped over all of the other posts since then simply to make a point to you.

 

You did EXACTLY what everyone said you would do when I posted on this thread. You completely ignored the ADVICE, and simply picked out the parts that made you feel bad.

 

 

After noting that I only responded to posts I disagreed with, I made a concerted effort to post to those I DID agree with. Might want to read through them all and see.

 

If I agreed with something, I didn't see the need to respond---because I agreed with it. And many times I was posting, I was crying because of some of the things posters had said. Tends to make it hard to type.

And as slow as this forum loads screens on my computer, the less I had to post, the better.

[crazy_grl]

Well......considering he was messing around with me since being in marriage counseling since January, I don't really know if MC or signing a contract is going to work with him.

 

That doesn't matter. Whether or not his marriage is going to work out or not doesn't matter. It's whether making a contract with yourself will work for you.

 

Well, if you tell me the posts where I did that, I will gladly address it. I won't, however, take blanket statements made about me without something to back it up. You're entitled to your opinion though.

 

Post #49, which is the one I referred to as an example in my second post. And your address of it:

 

I'm to the point. I'm not flowery. Besides that I was too upset to pretend to be flowery. It wouldn't matter anyway. If I said "Thanks but getting something to distract me doesn't work for me." I'd be told that I'm just blowing off suggestions anyway--I don't think I'd get gratitude back. Can't win.

 

If you can be to the point and not flowery, but too upset to pretend to be flowery, why aren't you allowing other people the same courtesy? Why must other people tip toe around you and your feelings when you have such little regard for others'?

 

Also, whether you recognize it or not, telling people over and over that what they've said makes you want to kill yourself or makes you feel aweful when they've put their effort into helping and trying to lift you up does make people feel bad as well. And if if you're saying it just as a grab for attention instead of a genuine desire to end your life (hopefully you're not doing this), then it's incredibly selfish.

 

You've said some things in this post which were somewhat helpful. Besides that though, I'd have to say no. In fact, your posts were making me feel suicidal.

 

Lis, in one post I told you about how I thought you were a wonderful person but that you were just going about things wrong. That you can change the way things are going. I also said that I've picked myself up and I think you can do it too. In what way does that make you feel suicidal?

 

I would like you to do me a favor, and not just for my benefit, but for your own hopefully. Could you go to post #189 ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=605648&postcount=189 ) and tell me how each line makes you feel. Rip on anything and everything you want to. I don't mind. It's a long post, so I'll understand if you're not willing to though.

 

I only ask that you do the whole thing so that you don't allow yourself to pick out only the negatives and force yourself to see the positives as well. It will also help me understand why you're seeing negatives that were intended to be a positive motivation for you. And I can explain to you why they were not meant to hurt you.

 

Are you saying I pushed MM away?

 

I'm cautious to answer this, because you might take it the wrong way, but in the hopes that you might understand... It doesn't matter whether you pushed him away or not. I doubt there was anything you could have done to keep him since he was already committed to another woman. No matter what you did or who you were, you were bound to lose him. The numerous posts by OW that almost always end the same way will attest to that. I wasn't referring to your MM though. I don't think you should be seeking love from him anyway, because he's not worthy of your love. I was referring to potential friends and family members, because you've said that you're all alone and have no one.

 

You didn't mention what you thought of my suggestion to read some self-help books. Do you think that's something you might consider?

[liswil]

That doesn't matter. Whether or not his marriage is going to work out or not doesn't matter. It's whether making a contract with yourself will work for you.

 

*SIGH* YOU mentioned it was good he was going to mc to help things. Because you brought that up, I then mentioned how he'd been in mc and cheating so it wasn't doing him much good. You then acted like I was concerned with whether his marriage was working out or not which was NOT why I was telling you about his cheating while in MC.

 

Follow this?

 

Post #49, which is the one I referred to as an example in my second post. And your address of it:

 

If I get time, I'll search for it. I figured since you referenced it, that meant you had looked it up and could quote from it.

 

If you can be to the point and not flowery, but too upset to pretend to be flowery, why aren't you allowing other people the same courtesy? Why must other people tip toe around you and your feelings when you have such little regard for others'?

 

 

We're talking two different things here.

 

Also, whether you recognize it or not, telling people over and over that what they've said makes you want to kill yourself or makes you feel aweful when they've put their effort into helping and trying to lift you up does make people feel bad as well. And if if you're saying it just as a grab for attention instead of a genuine desire to end your life (hopefully you're not doing this), then it's incredibly selfish.

 

Clarification---those posters trying to help and lift me up did NOT make me feel suicidal. Those posters who were NOT trying to help, DID.

 

And no---I wasn't just doing it for attention. That is, however, what a lot of people think the person is doing.

 

Lis, in one post I told you about how I thought you were a wonderful person but that you were just going about things wrong. That you can change the way things are going. I also said that I've picked myself up and I think you can do it too. In what way does that make you feel suicidal?

 

Were you the one who said I only pick out the negatives??? Sounds like you're only picking out the few positives you've said throughout this. Did you overlook the other things you've said? If you'd like, I'll find your posts that made me feel suicidal. Let me know.

 

I would like you to do me a favor, and not just for my benefit, but for your own hopefully. Could you go to post #189 ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=605648&postcount=189 ) and tell me how each line makes you feel. Rip on anything and everything you want to. I don't mind. It's a long post, so I'll understand if you're not willing to though.

 

Sure--if I have time.

 

And what purpose is this for, pray tell? Like you're going to listen to a word I say???

 

I only ask that you do the whole thing so that you don't allow yourself to pick out only the negatives and force yourself to see the positives as well. It will also help me understand why you're seeing negatives that were intended to be a positive motivation for you. And I can explain to you why they were not meant to hurt you.

 

pot---kettle

 

You didn't mention what you thought of my suggestion to read some self-help books. Do you think that's something you might consider?

 

No offense, but it's a suggestion I've known about and participated in for about 20 years now. Believe it or not, I've improved myself--mostly on my own (books, the internet, etc..)

Lately however, I've not had time to read books.

[crazy_grl]

*SIGH* YOU mentioned it was good he was going to mc to help things. Because you brought that up, I then mentioned how he'd been in mc and cheating so it wasn't doing him much good. You then acted like I was concerned with whether his marriage was working out or not which was NOT why I was telling you about his cheating while in MC.

 

Follow this?

 

It took me a second to get it from your perspective, but I think I managed to. Perhaps you interpretted what I was saying to mean that the contract and counseling he's doing will save his marriage and give him a good outcome. That is not what I meant. I only meant that it is good in the sense that it's one step in moving toward a positive outcome for his marriage. Whether or not it ends up that way in the end is irrelevant, so when you mentioned that, it seemed like you were still interested in whether his marriage would work out.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't originally mention it. Coco did. You were talking about his contract he made and she gave you an option for how to do the same type of thing to help yourself: "You should do what he did. Make a contract with yourself that you won't repeat this mistake and change your life." To which you replied: "So all of a sudden now you see him as a decent, moral person?"

 

In my opinion, your statement was big jump. Whether or not he's behaved honorably at any other point in time or is a moral person is irrelevant to the fact that counseling and the contract he made are a good move on his part. You asked Coco if she was saying he's a moral person when in fact she wasn't making any claim about his character at all, only suggesting that doing something similiar for yourself could be a good move on your part.

 

If I get time, I'll search for it. I figured since you referenced it, that meant you had looked it up and could quote from it.

 

I thought if you had the post number, it'd be easy for you to look up the entire thing instead of just getting an exerpt, but if it'll help you, here's some quotes:

 

What you need to know is that you matter to yourself. Girlfriend you need to find something that make you happy a pet fish, bird, cat, dog, or go buy yourself a new outfit or a new hair do!! But my suggestion is don't go drastic on that because I just went through that two weeks ago I'm a burnette and decided to go bleach blonde who did I look like a freak!!! Well girl I gotta run for now but please don't give up trust me I've lived a HORROR story of a life and I'm still here today to say I love me and it's ok if no one else does because I do.

A new pet or hairdo isn't going to make me feel better. I never get why people say that stuff. I'm not three years old and a piece of candy is going to make me forget all this.

 

That's very belittling when Katch was being very supportive. It's not an extreme jump to think that you're implying Katch has the mentality of a 3 year old, and IMO, that's rude.

 

If you can be to the point and not flowery, but too upset to pretend to be flowery, why aren't you allowing other people the same courtesy? Why must other people tip toe around you and your feelings when you have such little regard for others'?

 

We're talking two different things here.

 

Please explain why that's the case.

 

How do you know Katch isn't sensitive and feeling bad also, but putting up a strong front? Katch could have just lost her mother, her husband, and her son, plus be suffering from breast cancer. You don't know that. How would you feel if she replied that what you said about her being like a 3 year old was the last straw and made her want to kill herself? Why are Katch's feelings or anyone elses less important than yours?

 

Clarification---those posters trying to help and lift me up did NOT make me feel suicidal. Those posters who were NOT trying to help, DID.

 

Well, I was trying to help you. I know I was and whether or not you choose to believe that, I know that I was, but apparently what I said made you feel suicidal. LucreziaBorgia is always very helpful and very insightful. A lot of things she's said have helped me. It appeared to me and others that she was trying to help you, but you said she made you feel aweful and probably suicidal, so I believe your statement to be false.

 

Were you the one who said I only pick out the negatives??? Sounds like you're only picking out the few positives you've said throughout this. Did you overlook the other things you've said?

 

It wasn't me who originally said you pick out the negatives, but I agree with whoever said it though. (That does not mean I agree with every single word they said if they said anything insulting toward you.)

 

No, I'm not picking out just the positives. The post I referred you to was only my second on this thread. My first post is probably the one that can be interpretted most harshly. It was not meant that way, however. At that point, I did not realize your tendancy to see things so negatively. After that post, I changed my approach and phrasing, but at no time was I ever being insulting or trying to drag you down. I'm sorry you felt that way, but it was not my intent. I'm willing to bet the same can be said for many people who've offered you advice that made you feel suicidal.

 

I'm not telling you this to attack you or tell you how bad you are. I'm trying to show you that people do care and they're trying to help you. It doesn't matter whether what they say is right or wrong. If you take what they say for what it is: a helping hand and a shoulder for support, then you'll be much less inclined to feel sad and lonely.

 

If you'd like, I'll find your posts that made me feel suicidal. Let me know.

 

To make it easy for you, this is every post I've made on your thread:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=599969&postcount=28

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=605648&postcount=189

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=606329&postcount=194

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=607302&postcount=206

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=610364&postcount=326

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=610387&postcount=327

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=610424&postcount=332

 

And what purpose is this for, pray tell? Like you're going to listen to a word I say???

 

What gives you the impression that I won't listen to a word you say? Please do not use examples from what other people have said, because even though I agree with many of their points, I am not any of them. I am an individual just like you and each poster here.

 

I already explained the reason I wanted you to do it, but you misinterpretted (see below). I'll try to phrase it differently. I want you to force yourself to react to the positive and constructive things said to you. I want you to allow those things to sink in. You said yourself that you don't reply to the positive things and the things you agree with, but I think you'll feel better if you do. I never used to let the positives sink in either. In fact, for a long time, I couldn't even tell if something made me happy or if I like something... only what made me unhappy and what I disliked.

 

Maybe the exercise will be pointless and useless for you, but maybe it won't. It can't hurt you to try.

 

I only ask that you do the whole thing so that you don't allow yourself to pick out only the negatives and force yourself to see the positives as well. It will also help me understand why you're seeing negatives that were intended to be a positive motivation for you. And I can explain to you why they were not meant to hurt you.

pot---kettle

 

I could be wrong, but that sounds like a trite answer in order to dodge addressing what I actually said. Also, it wasn't neccessary, because I wasn't accusing you of anything here, so this is in no way a case of pot & kettle. This was my reason for asking you to go over my post. It was also an offer to explain to you what I meant by anything that wasn't clear.

 

No offense, but it's a suggestion I've known about and participated in for about 20 years now. Believe it or not, I've improved myself--mostly on my own (books, the internet, etc..)

Lately however, I've not had time to read books.

 

No offense taken, and thank you for the courteous response. Glad to hear you've done some reading. If you have even a few minutes everyday, I highly recommend "Are You the One for Me". It's very easy reading, but incredibly helpful.

[liswil]

It took me a second to get it from your perspective, but I think I managed to. Perhaps you interpretted what I was saying to mean that the contract and counseling he's doing will save his marriage and give him a good outcome. That is not what I meant. I only meant that it is good in the sense that it's one step in moving toward a positive outcome for his marriage.

 

Oh good Lord---how is that a positive step for someone who was cheating while they were in MC to begin with? Then they tell their wife only because they're afraid I'll tell her and they want to tell her THEIR version which is 100x tamer than what really happened.

I think you're being naive to think he's taking a step in the right direction.

 

 

That's very belittling when Katch was being very supportive. It's not an extreme jump to think that you're implying Katch has the mentality of a 3 year old, and IMO, that's rude.

 

Please explain why that's the case.

 

How do you know Katch isn't sensitive and feeling bad also, but putting up a strong front? Katch could have just lost her mother, her husband, and her son, plus be suffering from breast cancer. You don't know that. How would you feel if she replied that what you said about her being like a 3 year old was the last straw and made her want to kill herself? Why are Katch's feelings or anyone elses less important than yours?

 

 

 

 

You're kidding, right? First of all, what I said wasn't rude. I was just being factual and to the point. And SECONDLY, I was NOT saying SHE had the mentality of a three year old. Please re-read.

 

 

Well, I was trying to help you. I know I was and whether or not you choose to believe that, I know that I was, but apparently what I said made you feel suicidal. LucreziaBorgia is always very helpful and very insightful. A lot of things she's said have helped me. It appeared to me and others that she was trying to help you, but you said she made you feel aweful and probably suicidal, so I believe your statement to be false.

 

Hey, if it lets you sleep at night, then you go believe my statement to be false, k?

 

 

 

No, I'm not picking out just the positives. The post I referred you to was only my second on this thread. My first post is probably the one that can be interpretted most harshly. It was not meant that way, however. At that point, I did not realize your tendancy to see things so negatively. After that post, I changed my approach and phrasing, but at no time was I ever being insulting or trying to drag you down. I'm sorry you felt that way, but it was not my intent. I'm willing to bet the same can be said for many people who've offered you advice that made you feel suicidal.

 

That's called back-peddling. And, if you remember, you stated that you read EVERY post here before responding I believe. Please take accountability for your behavior. You CHOSE to act the way you did towards me.

 

I'm not telling you this to attack you or tell you how bad you are. I'm trying to show you that people do care and they're trying to help you. It doesn't matter whether what they say is right or wrong. If you take what they say for what it is: a helping hand and a shoulder for support, then you'll be much less inclined to feel sad and lonely.

 

Just because I disagree with someone or they're not catching what I'm trying to say, doesn't make me feel like they don't care. Did I ever say that???

 

As for you giving a helping hand? Can you say that with a straight face???

 

 

 

 

No offense taken, and thank you for the courteous response. Glad to hear you've done some reading. If you have even a few minutes everyday, I highly recommend "Are You the One for Me". It's very easy reading, but incredibly helpful.

 

Thanks but I doubt I will have time to read it anytime soon.

[crazy_grl]

Oh good Lord---how is that a positive step for someone who was cheating while they were in MC to begin with? Then they tell their wife only because they're afraid I'll tell her and they want to tell her THEIR version which is 100x tamer than what really happened.

I think you're being naive to think he's taking a step in the right direction.

 

Lis, I don't even know where to begin. You've missed the point entirely and I'm not going to attempt to explain again, because I already put a lot of effort into phrasing it delicately so that you would get it and not feel insulted in any way.

 

You're kidding, right? First of all, what I said wasn't rude. I was just being factual and to the point. And SECONDLY, I was NOT saying SHE had the mentality of a three year old. Please re-read.

 

"First of all, what I said wasn't rude. I was just being factual and to the point." <-- please apply to my original post as well as many other posts for other people on this thread that you took insult with.

 

Hey, if it lets you sleep at night, then you go believe my statement to be false, k?

 

Thank you for your permission. I'll do that.

 

That's called back-peddling.

 

No, it's not backpeddling, because I stand by every word I said in my first post. I was not putting you down or being rude to you. You chose to take it that way, and the only thing I would change is the way I phrased it, which I shouldn't have to do. Most people would be able to see the positive in mine and other people's posts which you feel were "attacking" you. In my second post, I was being exceedingly sensitive to you so that you wouldn't be angered or offended by it.

 

None of us should have to walk on eggshells not to upset you. Even now, you seem to be taking what I say to be an attack.

 

And, if you remember, you stated that you read EVERY post here before responding I believe. Please take accountability for your behavior. You CHOSE to act the way you did towards me.

 

Yes, I did chose to say what I said in the manner I said it. I never claimed otherwise. I even apologized for if I had hurt your feelings, and you still seem to be lashing out at me. Like I said before, I stand by what I said, but if I had known you were so sensitive, I probably would have phrased it differently.

 

Just because I disagree with someone or they're not catching what I'm trying to say, doesn't make me feel like they don't care. Did I ever say that???

 

If you don't mind, could you give me an example of one person/post that you feel is caring that disagrees with you or offers constructive criticism in any way?

 

As for you giving a helping hand? Can you say that with a straight face???

 

Perfectly straight. I can also say it standing on one foot or spinning in circles. Like I said before, if you choose to see it otherwise, that's up to you. I know what I was doing, and it doesn't matter to me whether you don't think so. Seeing it otherwise only hurts you by making you feel like a victim because more negatively has been directed at you.

[crazy_grl]

Lis, I just want you to know that the reason I haven't just given up on you and said I'm done is because I remember being on the opposite end of this type of conversation. The similarities of focusing on the negative and twisting words are eerily similar. It took awhile for me to get it too. You can do it, but you have to want to.

[Maria46]

I have been following this post since it started and am trying to figure out where it is going.

 

What issue is being resolved at this point?

 

Lis,

 

I know you are in pain. As I explained in my PM, most of the people who are posting here are trying to help you. They are getting frustrated with you being negative about yourself. You need to start being positive. How can they help you when you are constatnly kicking yourself?

 

They would not be posting here if they didn't care about you.

 

Please try to see the good in people and in yourself. No one wants you to be feeling as you are. You need to believe that you are an important person and are loved. You are not the first person to be used. You are not the last person to be used.

 

How about ending this thread and starting a new one with a positive outlook? IMO you need to try some of the suggestions that you are given. Many of these people have been in the same boat as you and have felt as you do right now. BUT, you need to want to feel better about yourself and your life.

 

I have been there, done that and had to make the decision to improve my life. You can too! I hope that you can make that decision as well!

 

I worry about you, but can't help you until you accept help.

 

Please take care of yourself!

[newbby]

yes, my advice was to accept your pain. i am not sure if i explained myself very well so i am sorry for that. it seems to me that you are angry about the unfairness of your pain, which is perfectly understandable, however, when you are angry it creates more pain....it only hurts yourself. i am not saying to stop being angry because how can you, everything was unfair, but the anger does only hurt you and limit you, it is not hurting anyone else as much as it does you. it is the same with loneliness, you want somebody to be there to love you etc, but, if there is nobody, what then? if you get angry about that situation, it then becomes as though that is the only thing that can happen to help you. in accepting that there is noone then that leaves only yourself who can help you, if you accept those bad things that happened, you can let go of them. although it may not seem so now, it is a great excercise in self reliance and you will find that your future relationships are not so dependent on the other person. your happiness then is not dependent on anybody else either.

[FWIW]

What an interesting thread!

 

Original poster got some good advice, misread some of it (from down in that well of despair), got a bit shirty and confrontational, things escalated, she couldn't let the unwelcome posts go without replying, lots of confrontation ensues... very entertaining I'm sure, but shouldn't we be helping?

 

I'd say this to anyone getting frustrated - even if you're annoyed with slow progress or with your well intentioned advice being ignored... LEAVE IT! What's the point goading this lady in the midst of her suffering? You're posting from a position of relative comfort and you should know better than to stick the knife in while she's down. Remember how bad she feels. She's having a hard time reacting in the way you'd hope she'd react.. that's no reason to give up on her!

 

So where are we now? Lis, I'm sorry how low you're feeling. Can you put all the bad bits of this thread behind you and start again? How can we help you? What specific advice and support can anyone offer you? Ignore the arguments you've had here and remember there *have* been people trying to help. They will continue to try to help you, for as long as you reach out. Carry on. Vent. Discuss. Ask. Whatever. *I* want to hear from you, and so do many others, I'm sure. Just let the negative comments go - ignore them.

 

How are you feeling today?

[Hot Coco]

What an interesting thread!

 

Original poster got some good advice, misread some of it (from down in that well of despair), got a bit shirty and confrontational, things escalated, she couldn't let the unwelcome posts go without replying, lots of confrontation ensues... very entertaining I'm sure, but shouldn't we be helping?

 

I'd say this to anyone getting frustrated - even if you're annoyed with slow progress or with your well intentioned advice being ignored... LEAVE IT! What's the point goading this lady in the midst of her suffering? You're posting from a position of relative comfort and you should know better than to stick the knife in while she's down. Remember how bad she feels. She's having a hard time reacting in the way you'd hope she'd react.. that's no reason to give up on her!

 

So where are we now? Lis, I'm sorry how low you're feeling. Can you put all the bad bits of this thread behind you and start again? How can we help you? What specific advice and support can anyone offer you? Ignore the arguments you've had here and remember there *have* been people trying to help. They will continue to try to help you, for as long as you reach out. Carry on. Vent. Discuss. Ask. Whatever. *I* want to hear from you, and so do many others, I'm sure. Just let the negative comments go - ignore them.

 

How are you feeling today?

 

That's the cutest avatar FWIW!

 

Ok, I didn't get something you said:

 

I'd say this to anyone getting frustrated - even if you're annoyed with slow progress or with your well intentioned advice being ignored... LEAVE IT!

 

Then you go on to say to not give up on her. I don't understand what you're saying. Don't give up on her or leave it?

 

You say that because her reactions aren't what we want that it's not a reason to give up on her. Well, speaking for myself, that's not the reason I gave up. The reason I gave up is that she really DOESN'T want help!

 

One by one she pushes people away. Look at crazygirl tried and got kicked in the face like I and so many others have.

 

Misery loves company. She's miserable and wants to try to make others miserable as well. But all she's really doing is making herself more miserable.

 

So, her negative reactions and twisting of my words is not what made me give up. It's the fact that she doesn't really want help or support of any kind. She probably doesn't even think she deserves it. And if someone doesn't want help you can't force them to take it! That's what we all have to realize.

 

As far as WHAT she wants...hell if I know? I've asked that so many times on here. She's never answered. I've even tried different approaches to see if she'd respond to any of them. But each and every time the response is the same...negativity. That's the mode she's stuck in. And until she gets out of that mode NO ONE will be able to help her. One by one she will alienate everyone who tries to help her here, just as she's probably done in her life.

 

When she's really open to getting help she will be more receptive to it and it will benefit her. But for now, she's not so it's truly a waste of time.

 

She's probably laughing her head off and all of us who tried. She's getting some kind of sick pleasure of seeing all of us suckers try to help us while she twists our words and meanings and throws it back to us. In some perverse way, she's getting off on that. I don't get it but I know that's what's taking place. So are you going to be her next victim? Because if crazygirl gives up I really wouldn't blame her.

 

You say let the negative comments go, ignore them. She responds to ALL posts pretty much in a negative way. Her reaction to someone saying they don't care if she died is pretty much the same as her reaction to someone suggesting ways to make her feel better. (Re-read if you don't believe me) It ALL makes her feel bad. She can't distinguish negative comments from positive ones right now. So when you tell her to let the negative comments go, it's a waste of time.

 

Hey, good luck trying!

[lilmoma1973]

 

 

After all, you knew the fellow was married. So I'm really befuddled as to why you're so upset. Would it not make more sense to be thankful that this manipulative, cheating dude is now out of your life?

 

I totally agree with Slubber!! I say good riddens you don't need him !!!! I think he broke it off from you because his wife knew and it wasn't exciting anymore and some men like the new and no baggage!! Good Luck

[liswil]

IHow about ending this thread and starting a new one with a positive outlook? IMO you need to try some of the suggestions that you are given. Many of these people have been in the same boat as you and have felt as you do right now. BUT, you need to want to feel better about yourself and your life.

 

 

I'm very very depressed today and realized I have no where to turn now--no one to talk to about this. I can't talk about how I'm feeling here because it won't have a "positive outlook" and therefore, isn't allowed.

 

No one really discussed with me the events that happened. I even added new information recently but no one cared. All people care about is making generalities like "think positive". I really wanted feedback on the course of events. There's even more I haven't written about because the last part was ignored anyway. I really have no where to go and I'm feeling hopeless.

 

People can't say that I didn't try to talk to people though. I tried. Unfortunately, very few will talk about what I want to talk about. Instead people make their own agenda and want to decide what I can talk about and cannot---and dictate what my mood should be.

 

I was coming back from lunch after trying to talk to a friend about things. I realized I really have no where to turn now.

[liswil]

 

One by one she pushes people away. Look at crazygirl tried and got kicked in the face like I and so many others have.

 

You and crazy girl got kicked in the face because I dislike people who kick a person into the ground and then try to later act like they're sweet and innocent. I'm not that stupid. It's called a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Actually I've had people PM me and tell me "way to go".

 

 

She's probably laughing her head off and all of us who tried. She's getting some kind of sick pleasure of seeing all of us suckers try to help us while she twists our words and meanings and throws it back to us. In some perverse way, she's getting off on that. I don't get it but I know that's what's taking place. So are you going to be her next victim? Because if crazygirl gives up I really wouldn't blame her.

 

You really have issues.....you know that?

[lindya]

I'm very very depressed today and realized I have no where to turn now--no one to talk to about this. I can't talk about how I'm feeling here because it won't have a "positive outlook" and therefore, isn't allowed.

 

I wish I could help. Truly I do, but I just don't know how. When I've felt really down, the only thing that gets me through and out of it is to rationalise what I'm feeling, and use positive thinking techniques. That's why I was talking earlier on in the thread about cognitive behavioural therapy and transactional analysis.

 

I find that spending too much time dwelling on bad things that have happened just puts me on even more of a downer... which is probably why I focus on trying to change my thinking patterns and advise other people to do likewise...but I know that's not what you're looking for. I just couldn't think of anything else that might help. Hope you find someone or something that can get you through this difficult time.

 

Edit - typos, typos...

[seachange]

hey lis.

 

maybe it's a good idea to start a new thread, in light of what you just wrote? honestly, i don't think people are generally ignoring your need to talk about the course of events between you and your MM on purpose.

 

i'm sure it's totally true that people can have agendas, but the vast majority of people here (and wow! check it out - your thread has had more than 4000 views!) are probably just confused about what you want to know. and sadly, i think that whatever new info you posted has probably become a bit lost in the massiveness of this thread so far.

 

so maybe, if you want to start a new one, you could repost the info you want people to pay attention to...e.g. he said xxx, that says to me xxx but i'd like to get your opinions because personally I have found him to be a lying scuzzball. and also, doesn't he suck because he told me xxx and his wife yyy and the truth is actually zzz. d!ck. or something like that.

 

i get that you may feel like you've already done this and so will feel like you're repeating yourself, but to outside eyes who are trying to catch up with your story there is so much going on with this thread that it's hard to know where to focus attention anymore. please redirect?

[liswil]

hey lis.

 

maybe it's a good idea to start a new thread, in light of what you just wrote? honestly, i don't think people are generally ignoring your need to talk about the course of events between you and your MM on purpose.

 

i'm sure it's totally true that people can have agendas, but the vast majority of people here (and wow! check it out - your thread has had more than 4000 views!) are probably just confused about what you want to know. and sadly, i think that whatever new info you posted has probably become a bit lost in the massiveness of this thread so far.

 

so maybe, if you want to start a new one, you could repost the info you want people to pay attention to...e.g. he said xxx, that says to me xxx but i'd like to get your opinions because personally I have found him to be a lying scuzzball. and also, doesn't he suck because he told me xxx and his wife yyy and the truth is actually zzz. d!ck. or something like that.

 

i get that you may feel like you've already done this and so will feel like you're repeating yourself, but to outside eyes who are trying to catch up with your story there is so much going on with this thread that it's hard to know where to focus attention anymore. please redirect?

 

 

I agree, but wouldn't I be told that I wasn't having a "positive outlook"??? In fact, I can hear posters now saying "You started a new thread about the same old stuff. Wasn't one thread enough for you? Other people need help and you're hogging it all,......"

[Lonestar]

And even if she doesn't suspect anything else, trust me, it won't do her any good to hear the details from the OW...seriously, can you imagine what that would be like for her?

 

 

If I were the W, I'd want to know all the details from the OW. In fact, if she didn't contact me, I would contact her. I'd pay for her drinks too, get her a litlte juiced up so she spilled all the little details. I'd want to know everything.

[liswil]

If I were the W, I'd want to know all the details from the OW. In fact, if she didn't contact me, I would contact her. I'd pay for her drinks too, get her a litlte juiced up so she spilled all the little details. I'd want to know everything.

 

I agree.

 

Some people say: You'll just hurt her if you tell her.

 

My response to that is: HE hurt her----period. Knowing about it is secondary.

 

I was in the W's shoes and I would have wanted to know about it. I wouldn't have LIKED knowing about it---but I wouldn't have wasted several more years if I had.