Dropped off like garbage

[whichwayisup]

I'm still the way of thinking if you can't help or say something NICE, then don't post at all.

 

This thread probably will be deleted by the Mods if the bantering back and forth doesn't stop. It's actually starting to piss me off - The FOCUS of this thread is to help Lis through her hard time. It doesn't matter what we feel personally, k - Joining LS and posting/replying is to vent, and say things we can't say to others we may know face to face.... She has her OWN way of dealing with things, that may/may not be the right way, but it is how she deals with things...Who are we to tell her HOW to handle her life? Let's get back to the main focus and stop nitpickin' ... It's silly and stupid, don't ya'll think?

 

Lis, whatever happens now with MM is out of your hands. Somehow, through help here, and with councelling, you have to make some form of closure to be able to move on. That starts with forgiving yourself. It takes two to make/break a relationship, each of you have freewill - So, to take on all the blame, the what if I'd done this or that, is too much responsibility put on you.

I know right now nothing makes sense, your heart hurts and you feel awful. We can all see that - I can guarantee you within the next 3 months YOU will move past this. You don't have a choice. Time has a way of fixing everything but one has to be willing to let the process take place. Do you know what I'm saying by that?

 

Hope you've had a better weekend. Happy Halloween!

[Hot Coco]

But who decides what "NICE" is?

 

What one person considers to be nice or helpful, another person may think is rude.

[Hot Coco]

"Let's get back to the main focus and stop nitpickin' ... It's silly and stupid, don't ya'll think?"

 

Therein lies the problem of this thread. What exactly IS the main focus here?

[garner]

"Let's get back to the main focus and stop nitpickin' ... It's silly and stupid, don't ya'll think?"

 

Therein lies the problem of this thread. What exactly IS the main focus here?

 

I think the point of it is to show us all exactly what happens when someone has a completely negative approach all the time. People try to help them then get fed up and leave. It's like a big test "if you're a true friend to me then you'll have the patience of a saint and you'll keep taking all my **** without complaining about it."

 

This thread is like "good cop bad cop". Some people take, like you say, a tough love approach and lis gets all hurt and upset...so people like whichwayisup and sami rush to her defence and tell everyone else how mean they are. Then they get to be the saintly nice ones and Lis starts telling them that they are help;ing her. But if nobody here was posting any harsh stuff to Lis, she'd be busy telling whichwayisup and sami "you don't understand me, you're making me feel worse."

 

This way Lis gets what she wants because she's causing trouble, causing people to argue with eachother getting attention and being able to be the victim that she's probably spent her whole life playing.

[Sami_D]

so people like whichwayisup and sami rush to her defence and tell everyone else how mean they are.

 

My point was, that lis can't see, and can't benefit, from any of the points people are making about 'moving on' and getting help at this moment.

 

I haven't told anyone they're 'being mean'. I've said that people who come back time and time again to this thread to beat their own heads against a brick wall, are doing nothing positive either for themselves, lis, or anyone else. In fact, all they're doing is re-enforcing lis's own preconceptions about the world. Where's the sense in that?

 

It's just turning into a p***ing match which doesn't show anyone in a particularly good light.

[lindya]

It's just turning into a p***ing match which doesn't show anyone in a particularly good light.

 

I think that's a very good description.

 

I tend to think garner also has a point here...

 

This thread is like "good cop bad cop". Some people take, like you say, a tough love approach and lis gets all hurt and upset...so people like whichwayisup and sami rush to her defence

 

Useful link to a fairly down to earth description of transactional analysis

 

http://www.businessballs.com/transact.htm

 

In terms of TA, the thread seems to be bringing out either the critical or the nurturing parent in posters, and I don't find that surprising. With comments like "you've made me feel..." from Lis, I certainly felt myself being construed as being in that "critic" role when initially I really was trying to give advice as one adult to another. I can't help feeling that we've all become involved in playing out a scenario that is probably very familiar to Lis...ie the world being divided into horrible, critical "bullies" and a few patient, nurturing "rescuers". Not a healthy or constructive dialogue for anyone to get embroiled in.

 

I hope, Lis, that you can find some way out of the situation you seem to be trapped in at the moment.

[Sami_D]

I am not going to deny that I think that lis would benefit from counselling. But how easy is it to find good counselling? Not easy at all. I think that we, as people here in probably bad situations ourselves, can help her. Counselling is a really recent thing amongst human communities. She hasn't found anything obvous and easy in her environment.

 

What do we want to do... kick her to small peices, or accept her as someone really needing our help or understanding OR, just as a possibility.. walking away and not thinking we are GOD and know everything. Where does making A POINT come into it? If your point isn't working ... HELLO.. you're failing. And you need to get to grips with that.

 

Do you care about failing because that makes you a failure? Or because you are failing another human being?

 

You're failing her. So either walk away, or try something new.

 

And if you think she's getting something she doesn't deserve (attention), then walk away. And let anyone else who cares to be here deal with that. Unless that sticks in your craw too.

 

You have not failed. You've just had the wrong approach. Don't take it out on her. She doesn't deserve to be kicked to death.

 

Anyone else commenting on this thread, ask yourself... WHY ARE YOU DOING IT?

 

Self-righteousness? Misguidedness? Real desire to hold out a hand but can't be sure how to?

[lindya]

Where does making A POINT come into it? If your point isn't working ... HELLO.. you're failing. And you need to get to grips with

 

I'm assuming that's directed at me as it followed my post.

 

Just to clarify, the purpose of my last post was really to say that reference to transactional analysis theory might help to pinpoint why this thread is playing out in such a destructive manner. As for not being able to help Liswil, that's something I have already got to grips with. I wished her luck in my last post as I'm not going to attempt to give her any more advice on this.

[liswil]

SamiD---I've hesitated to read the responses here lately because the cruelty I've read has made me a lot worse.

 

I'm glad I read your post though. You said it so, so well. Of course some will say that I liked your post because you're "just telling me what I want to hear." Well, let them think that. Actually some of the responses I've seen on here have made me wonder how a person could turn out that way. I could never be like them--and I'm glad.

 

Everything you said was so on the money and I'm so glad you said it. You know, if I wasn't emotionally upset, I would have posted something exactly like what you've said.

 

It's funny but on another forum there's a poster that is going through a very similar experience and has said a LOT of the same things that I've said here. Believe it or not, I've given her a lot of advice and have had several posters tell me that it was very good advice. And no one there acted like they have acted here to the poster--even though she was saying the exact same things as I have.

[Sami_D]

I'm assuming that's directed at me as it followed my post.

 

Just to clarify, the purpose of my last post was really to say that reference to transactional analysis theory might help to pinpoint why this thread is playing out in such a destructive manner. As for not being able to help Liswil, that's something I have already got to grips with. I wished her luck in my last post as I'm not going to attempt to give her any more advice on this.

 

Please don't assume that, because no, it wasn't meant as a response solely or even specifically to you. I have been meaning to write a respose to this thread since someone (err... no idea, hope it wasn't you!) said that they would accept my position on this but that lis was just setting fire to any 'ropes' sent to her.

 

I wanted to say that lis doesn't see those things as ropes. You (all, whoever) might as well be dangling snakes. That's all she sees. I'm hazarding a guess here because I am just thinking myself back into those days I went through myself

[lindya]

Please don't assume that, because no, it wasn't meant as a response solely or even specifically to you.

 

Ok. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[liswil]

I'm assuming that's directed at me as it followed my post.

 

Just to clarify, the purpose of my last post was really to say that reference to transactional analysis theory might help to pinpoint why this thread is playing out in such a destructive manner. As for not being able to help Liswil, that's something I have already got to grips with. I wished her luck in my last post as I'm not going to attempt to give her any more advice on this.

 

 

What say we gather all those posters who have wished me dead and apply the transactional analysis theory on them? What script are they following from childhood? It's rather scary how they turned out. I can't remember if you were one of them or not.

[Sami_D]

SamiD---I've hesitated to read the responses here lately because the cruelty I've read has made me a lot worse..

 

The thing is, lis.. it's not cruelty, it's just (in many cases) people trying to help, but they don't know how, and they can get anxious, and angry, and pissed off.

 

It doesn't mean they're wrong. It just means that you and they aren't even anywhere near on the same track.

 

Of course, some of them are just self-righteous ****s who want to kick someone when they're down for their own personal reasons (they're hurting too, probably, but that's really nothing that concerns you at the moment). That's how life is, and how forums are.

 

What you need to do, is decide what you can take from this whole experience that will help you.

 

Maybe my wishy-washy way means feck all to you but something to use to beat someone else with. It won't be the first time my trying to see things from all angles has been used (short term) by people to get a leg up over someone else, and I am sure (feel it) that that's the case on this forum in a couple of other threads.

 

But if you or anyone else see my words in that way.. then so be it.

[Sloppy]

So Lis, are you here to get help, or to pick a fight? I've read the entire thread and I am pretty much in disbelief. And no, I will not post here anymore since I have nothing to offer. I just wanted to state that I have never EVER met a more negative person in my life. I have worked with people who's situations were much much worse, and not one of them took help for granted or as a given. They didn't expect help, they didn't require help, and for sure they did not attack people who wanted to try to help. Note the word TRY.

Or does being defensive and mean to people make you feel better?

Whatever works, I guess.

I wish you good luck in self-transformation.

[Sami_D]

What say we gather all those posters who have wished me dead and apply the transactional analysis theory on them? .

 

lol...

[liswil]

The thing is, lis.. it's not cruelty, it's just (in many cases) people trying to help, but they don't know how, and they can get anxious, and angry, and pissed off.

 

 

I'm not calling everyone on here cruel. I think you know which ones I mean. There have basically been four types of posters here, only one of which is being called cruel:

 

You've got the ones who won't even listen to me, just want to give cliche' answers like "move on".

You've got the ones who listen but give cliche answers.

You've got the cruel ones who wish me dead and are trying to see how much into the ground they can kick me.

You've got the compassionate ones who really listen and don't just rail off some pat answer.

 

 

 

]

[Sami_D]

So Lis, are you here to get help, or to pick a fight?

 

And... are those who responded here only out to offer help without strings..? Offer a suggestion and then... leave. From what kind of personal need does it stem to keep on and ON at another person who isn't taking your advice - to keep coming back and having a Go at them?

 

Look to your own actions.

[liswil]

So Lis, are you here to get help, or to pick a fight? I've read the entire thread and I am pretty much in disbelief. And no, I will not post here anymore since I have nothing to offer. I just wanted to state that I have never EVER met a more negative person in my life. I have worked with people who's situations were much much worse, and not one of them took help for granted or as a given. They didn't expect help, they didn't require help, and for sure they did not attack people who wanted to try to help. Note the word TRY.

Or does being defensive and mean to people make you feel better?

Whatever works, I guess.

I wish you good luck in self-transformation.

 

 

Well apparently you're not a very thorough reader. Remedial student maybe?

[Sloppy]

And... are those who responded here only out to offer help without strings..? Offer a suggestion and then... leave. From what kind of personal need does it stem to keep on and ON at another person who isn't taking your advice - to keep coming back and having a Go at them?

 

Look to your own actions.

It goes both ways. If she didn't like the advice, she didn't have to keep coming back just to offend people...after MANY times of threatning to leave and 'end it'.

And I do look at my own actions quite often. That's why I am not in the same position as Lis is...I take responsibility for my own life.

[Sami_D]

I'm not calling everyone on here cruel. I think you know which ones I mean. There have basically been four types of posters here, only one of which is being called cruel:

 

You've got the ones who won't even listen to me, just want to give cliche' answers like "move on".

You've got the ones who listen but give cliche answers.

You've got the cruel ones who wish me dead and are trying to see how much into the ground they can kick me.

You've got the compassionate ones who really listen and don't just rail off some pat answer.

 

 

 

]

 

Well there are a whole lot of ways to categorise answers to situations posed on LS.

 

Most sensible reaction is to ignore those who are evidently out for their own fulfilment... and get on with something that suits YOU and your own goals.

 

You know... whether or not whey're making sense to you at the moment... a whole lot of people do care. Yes?

[liswil]

And... are those who responded here only out to offer help without strings..? Offer a suggestion and then... leave. From what kind of personal need does it stem to keep on and ON at another person who isn't taking your advice - to keep coming back and having a Go at them?

 

Look to your own actions.

 

 

I think it makes them feel more powerful. If they're pointing the finger at someone else, they can feel better about themselves.

 

 

How's that go again.....'whenever you point a finger, there are three pointing back at you'......

[Sami_D]

It goes both ways. If she didn't like the advice, she didn't have to keep coming back just to offend people...after MANY times of threatning to leave and 'end it'.

And I do look at my own actions quite often. That's why I am not in the same position as Lis is...I take responsibility for my own life.

 

And you know she came back again and again to 'offend people'?

 

Have you never really needed help?

 

Does a person really have the SOLE choice to accept what's given or go away and kill themselves???

 

Can you hear what you're saying? Hear and respect my advice or feck off? No one has to listen to anyone's advice. And no one has to 'follow through' on their current emotional response. Get over yourself and your arrogant assumptions about the simplicity of human reaction.

[liswil]

It goes both ways. If she didn't like the advice, she didn't have to keep coming back just to offend people...after MANY times of threatning to leave and 'end it'.

And I do look at my own actions quite often. That's why I am not in the same position as Lis is...I take responsibility for my own life.

 

 

So then you don't mind if I ask you to end it?

 

 

LOL---your post made me laugh. Yes, that's right, I came back here just to offend people. LMAO. I mean, I had nothing better to do and it sounded like fun. Slow weekend I guess.........

 

oh...my.....god......

[Sami_D]

I think it makes them feel more powerful. If they're pointing the finger at someone else, they can feel better about themselves.

 

 

How's that go again.....'whenever you point a finger, there are three pointing back at you'......

 

Well that goes for some people posting on this thread, lis. But you know, there are others that are really waiting for you to be ready to accept things about yourself.

 

So... anyway, apart from that... how are you feeling about MM at the moment? Any developments?

[liswil]

And you know she came back again and again to 'offend people'?

 

Have you never really needed help?

 

Does a person really have the SOLE choice to accept what's given or go away and kill themselves???

 

Can you hear what you're saying? Hear and respect my advice or feck off? No one has to listen to anyone's advice. And no one has to 'follow through' on their current emotional response. Get over yourself and your arrogant assumptions about the simplicity of human reaction.

 

 

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

 

If you're not in the social work/psychology field, you should be.