Horrible New Neighbors

[Dis]

Thanks so much everyone

 

Yes, I believe she's attempting to intimidate me. She had a foul attitude and I did tell my landlady she was somewhat threatening in telling me she has a problem with me going to my landlady about this. 

 

Like poppy said, even if the dogs escape or whatever else, I could get mauled. I don't even want to attempt to use my yard because of that. I've seen them run, they are fast and look terrifying. 

 

I don't think I will go to the police because as mentioned by other here, it's just going to escalate the situation and I don't want to risk that because I don't believe the police will be able to do anything 

 

I will ask around though about the legalities of the leash law in this specific scenario because if I can get them to leash their dogs, I will. I pay for half the yard and this is so unjust that they are basically monopolizing it 

 

I've fought battles with neighbors before and I'll do it again. I'm not one to shy away from conflict, I grew up with it so it's normal to me lol

 

I'm just glad I don't share my building with them and winter is on it's way so I have plenty of time and peace in my space so I can begin to plot and then act 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Dis

[poppyfields]

Dis read your rental lease.  I know with the rental leases I have had, there is a clause stating that as Lessees and tenants, we are entitled to "quiet enjoyment, and a peaceful and safe environment."  If that is not happening, your landlord is breaking the terms of the lease AND the law.   And you are then free to file a claim.

I would do it, because it's just not right.  Not by a long shot.  No matter what the leash laws state.

No tenant who pays good money for rent, should have to deal with that nonsense, seriously.

If that clause is not in the lease, then it's a bit more problematic.  But hopefully it is, it's a pretty standard clause for residential leases.

But yeah, your safety is of the utmost importance here, personally I wouldn't chance it no matter how lovely the cottage is.

Best of luck.

Edited September 14, 2021 by poppyfields

[Dis]

6 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Dis read your rental lease.  I know with the rental leases I have had, there is a clause stating that as Lessees and tenants, we are entitled to "quiet enjoyment, and a peaceful and safe environment."  If that is not happening, your landlord is breaking the terms of the lease AND the law.   And you are then free to file a claim.

I would do it, because it's just not right.  Not by a long shot.  No matter what the leash laws state.

No tenant who pays good money for rent, should have to deal with that nonsense, seriously.

If that clause is not in the lease, then it's a bit more problematic.  But hopefully it is, it's a pretty standard clause for residential leases.

But yeah, your safety is of the utmost importance here, personally I wouldn't chance it no matter how lovely the cottage is.

Best of luck.

No, my lease doesn't say that but even if it did I would have a hard time proving my rights were being violated and by the time it got anywhere the only thing that would end up happening is she just wouldn't renew my lease. It's always the crappy neighbors who win cases like that anyway and landlords usually side with them if they pay more in rent. 

 

I'm very disappointed in my landlady. She's not upholding my rights as a tenant. 

 

I definitely don't have quiet enjoyment of my yard so she is breaking the law there

[poppyfields]

28 minutes ago, Dis said:

No, my lease doesn't say that but even if it did I would have a hard time proving my rights were being violated and by the time it got anywhere the only thing that would end up happening is she just wouldn't renew my lease. It's always the crappy neighbors who win cases like that anyway and landlords usually side with them if they pay more in rent. 

 

I'm very disappointed in my landlady. She's not upholding my rights as a tenant. 

 

I definitely don't have quiet enjoyment of my yard so she is breaking the law there

Would you consider speaking with an attorney who specializes in tenant/landlord laws and disputes?

He/she may be able to shed some light and advise.

Again, it's not just the quiet enjoyment but your SAFETY!

You are correct, as a tenant you DO have rights. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by poppyfields

[Dis]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

Would you consider speaking with an attorney who specializes in tenant/landlord laws and disputes?

He/she may be able to shed some light and advise.

Again, it's not just the quiet enjoyment but your SAFETY!

You are correct, as a tenant you DO have rights. 

I would actually love to and I think I will

 

The only issue I have with that is, if I go after my landlady...even if I do win....she won't renew my lease next summer 

 

So I'm not sure what angle to take 

[poppyfields]

43 minutes ago, Dis said:

I would actually love to and I think I will

 

The only issue I have with that is, if I go after my landlady...even if I do win....she won't renew my lease next summer 

 

So I'm not sure what angle to take 

Again, check with an attorney.  If you are a good tenant, who pays your rent on time every month, and upholds the requirements of your lease, then I don't think she is allowed by law to retaliate against you for filing a claim by not renewing your lease.  

It would be like an employee who was being harassed in the workplace filing a claim and his/her employer firing her because of it.  It's against the law (civil law) for them to do that.

Not sure if landlord/tenant law is the same, but again check with an attorney.

You have rights Dis, don't ever forget that or allow her to intimidate you into believing you don't.

Edited September 14, 2021 by poppyfields

[Dis]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Again, check with an attorney.  If you are a good tenant, who pays your rent on time every month, and upholds the requirements of your lease, then I don't think she is allowed by law to retaliate against you for filing a claim by not renewing your lease.  

It would be like an employee who was being harassed in the workplace filing a claim and his/her employer firing her because of it.  It's against the law (civil law) for them to do that.

Not sure if landlord/tenant law is the same, but again check with an attorney.

You have rights Dis, don't ever forget that or allow her to intimidate you into believing you don't.

I know very well that my rights are being violated and my safety is being put at risk so I'm more than happy to talk with an attorney and explore my options 

 

Like I said in an previous post, I have no problem fighting for my rights as a tenant and have done so quite a few times

 

Honestly both my landlady and my neighbor are at fault here and I'll go after them both if I need to. My neighbor is intentionally intimating me, monopolizing the backyard and risking my safety with her dogs running around and my landlady is allowing it 

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Dis said:

I know very well that my rights are being violated and my safety is being put at risk so I'm more than happy to talk with an attorney and explore my options 

 

Like I said in an previous post, I have no problem fighting for my rights as a tenant and have done so quite a few times

 

Honestly both my landlady and my neighbor are at fault here and I'll go after them both if I need to. My neighbor is intentionally intimating me, monopolizing the backyard and risking my safety with her dogs running around and my landlady is allowing it 

Okay good!!   Let us know what the attorney says, I am interested myself!!    I hope it goes your way Dis.

Lord, between the last situation with the crazy lady upstairs and this, you haven't had much luck have you?  

Hopefully, the tide will turn, our homes should be our sanctuary, a place of calm and peace, mine is.

I could not live any other way, I'd have a breakdown!  

[Dis]

41 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay good!!   Let us know what the attorney says, I am interested myself!!    I hope it goes your way Dis.

Lord, between the last situation with the crazy lady upstairs and this, you haven't had much luck have you?  

Hopefully, the tide will turn, our homes should be our sanctuary, a place of calm and peace, mine is.

I could not live any other way, I'd have a breakdown!  

Yes!!! I have had such horrible luck! But that neighbor was so much worse. I had to share a house with her. She had the top floor and wow, she made every second of my life a living h*ll. That's the reason why I stopped renting apartments and duplexes because if you get into it with your upstairs neighbor, you won't even have peace within your home. 

 

Whereas my saving grace here is that we don't share a building and we live a good distance apart so I have my space, my peace and my quiet. I still love my home and it being my safe haven hasn't changed. 

 

It's just the yard that's the problematic area

[Mrin]

I love dogs but I have zero tolerance for owners who don't train and/or control them. And I won't do the whole blame the owner not the dog thing. That's just enabling poor dog ownership. Won't hesitate to call animal control on a chronically problem dog at large.

My sister had a dog that people nicknamed "ballshot" or "the beat down". Dog was completely untrained. If you were a dude you basically had to stand with your hand cupping your balls at all times around that damn thing. Finally told her her dog wasn't welcome at my house until she trained it. She didn't and the poor thing ended up suffocating in a potato chip bag of pulled from the counter. 

[Dis]

16 minutes ago, Mrin said:

I love dogs but I have zero tolerance for owners who don't train and/or control them. And I won't do the whole blame the owner not the dog thing. That's just enabling poor dog ownership. Won't hesitate to call animal control on a chronically problem dog at large.

 

She said several times during that intimidation chat that she is a, "responsible dog owner" I almost laughed at her 

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Dis said:

 my saving grace here is that we don't share a building and we live a good distance apart so I have my space, my peace and my quiet. I still love my home and it being my safe haven hasn't changed. 

Ok. If you wish to renew your lease or rent anywhere for that matter becoming a litigious problem tentant won't help you.

What will help you is calm reasonable approaches to the issue.

Hysteria anger calling police etc. Marks you as the problem.

Use calm and effective remedies. For example, don't answer the door if they are confronting you. 

Be less hostile and antagonistic. Discuss calmly that you would prefer their dogs be trained to stay off your property. Remember they just moved in and they can train the dogs.

In general coming at new neighbors this aggressively won't help you resolve things. 

 

 

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Discuss calmly that you would prefer their dogs be trained to stay off your property. Remember they just moved in and they can train the dogs.

In general coming at new neighbors this aggressively won't help you resolve things. 

Wiseman, it is not Dis' property, it is a shared property.  One property owner/landlord, two tenants - Dis and this couple with the scary pitbulls. 

If they were simply neighbors, each with separate property, it would be easier, but again, they share the property and have the same landlord. 

She has rights, all tenants do.  It's the law.

Pitbulls attack, they maul, disfigure and kill. 

The landlord is liable should anything happen, but why even chance it? 

Dis, I stick with my advice about talking to an attorney specializing in landlord/tenant laws.

This should NOT be happening.

Edited September 14, 2021 by poppyfields

[Blind-Sided]

11 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Again, check with an attorney.  If you are a good tenant, who pays your rent on time every month, and upholds the requirements of your lease, then I don't think she is allowed by law to retaliate against you for filing a claim by not renewing your lease.  

You are right... but she could rase the rent to the point where our OP couldn't afford it. 

OP... I know you don't want to involve the police... but you need to get a report put on file NOW.  Since the landlord isn't helping... a second report to the police (when it happens again) will get them in line. 

[Wiseman2]

55 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I stick with my advice about talking to an attorney specializing in landlord/tenant laws.

It's not a landlord/tenant issue. It's a local ordinance issue. There are smart and effective ways to handle things. The neighbors are not guilty of letting their dog attack anyone. If the dogs are an annoyance/nuisance there are appropriate remedies. The landlord  has done nothing wrong and is not "violating" anyone's' rights.

[d0nnivain]

38 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

 The landlord  has done nothing wrong and is not "violating" anyone's' rights.

I don't know about that.   One property owner / landlord, two tenants sharing a yard.  If the one tenant's dogs are violating the OPs quiet enjoyment of the property the OP leased, the OP may have a remedy in landlord tenant court  However, that remedy is going to be a possible reduction in rent or the ability to move before the end of the specified lease term.   

[Shining One]

12 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

If the one tenant's dogs are violating the OPs quiet enjoyment of the property the OP leased

I'm curious as to how this would be legally defined. Is the dogs' mere presence enough to be considered a violation? Or do the dogs have to commit certain actions before it's considered a violation?

[d0nnivain]

It's a state law issue so it would vary.  It could be barking incessantly or at all hours.  It could be digging up flowers or defecating but the human owners don't pick up after the dog.  It could be menacing if the dog is or appears vicious.  But it would have to be more than the dog just being there.  

[SumGuy]

On 9/11/2021 at 3:33 AM, Dis said:

...

So the convo wasn't going anywhere and it was clear she was just looking to argue so I walked back in my house and called my landlady. She basically didn't want anything to do with it. 

 

So tomorrow I'm going to the police to have documentation of what happened. I don't feel physically threatened by her but I do feel she was threatening in other ways with the other recording the convo and saying she's putting cameras on her house when I've done nothing to her or her family. 

 

Any [] general advice? Thanks! 

Where I live a landlord can't just opt out of dealing with it.  Sure they do, but that does not remove their legal liability. 

You have just as much right to quite and peaceful enjoyment of what you are renting as your neighbors, as well as a right to all the easements and rights of way that come with it...such as crossing the yard.  A landlord has to ensure that is the case, there are probably plenty of boiler plate phrases in the lease that would allow them to curb the dogs.  Sure you may rent a cottage in the back, but where I live you'd have an easement to cross the yard for various daily activities of living, and the landlord is on the legal hook to ensure that.  

I note where I live, this yard may be considered a common area, like the hallways or courtyard of an apartment building.

Again, where I live, certain dog breed are noted for being aggressive (fair or not) pit bulls being one of them.  It certainly was a question on my home owners insurance as well.  Such breeds don't get a bite...one bite and they are put down (it also doesn't take much for this to be mandatory, that is the victim can't say no, it is the state that decides)...and the owner sued...especially if here is a history (documented of course) of the dogs aggression.  Also, anyone that knows dogs knows they are more likely to get aggressive when in a pack.

Doesn't matter if you are in the yard they rent if you have a right to be there.  Let's also mention you were there first: there is the old adage first in time, first in right.

Also where I live a loose dog bites you one inch outside their property line, maybe put up a marker, and it is all over for the dog no questions asked, no excuses.

The cameras are a good thing...perhaps look into what rights you have on being observed and have a letter/e-mail ready to go, from an attorney perhaps, to preserve as evidence any recordings should you need them. 

Heck talk to an attorney you may want to send the preserve all recordings letter ahead of time. 

As you are the one acting in good faith and most likely to get hurt the cameras are likely a benefit to you, all the cameras will do is capture evidence against your neighbors, evidence they can't destroy where I live...very, very bad if they do...especially if there is potential for any criminal charges...which there can be with a dog attack where I live, especially when the aggression has been documented.  

In short, I understand that where I live the burden is on them and your landlady to make sure the dogs are controlled, not on you to change how you live to avoid a menace brought to your life by your neighbors.   

Frankly, where I live they should be being nice to you, they are the ones with a whopping potential to get in serious trouble and you hold all the cards to mess with how they live their life.  Last, but not least, where I live...landlords sometimes retaliate against tenants that complain...which is the stupidest thing they can do as the penalties where I live for retaliation are hefty and can often prevent them from evicting you in situations they otherwise could.

Not to be all confrontational, but it boils down in my mind to: you have a right to the peaceful enjoyment of what you rent and all the easements that come with that for you normal daily living (which includes walking a pet), this right supersedes the right of the dogs to be off leash (or off lead) even in the yard they rent...and unless you are physically attacking a person a dog has very little right to bite you no matter what (again where I live...the deck is stacked against dogs).  The text you send is you being nice to them but it doesn't mean the dogs get a free bite if you forget.

[SumGuy]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:16 AM, Blind-Sided said:

You are right... but she could rase the rent to the point where our OP couldn't afford it. 

...

Where I live raising the rent like that is almost assumed to be retaliation.  In fact, even if it was otherwise a normal increase doing so after a complaint means the landlord has to prove it is not retaliation if the tenant pushes it. 

It all depends on the local laws though.

Where I live pretty easy to get some free legal consultation from the attorney generals office or an attorney and landlord tenant stuff, there are plenty of penalties involved and a lot of potential money in a dog bite case, and they are easy to win I understand.

The landlord should also be concerned about what their insurance says.  Where I live I'd need to tell them if I had a pit bull...if I didn't and my pit bull bit (if I had one) someone I'm certain they would deny me coverage.  Just like if I got a trampoline or installed a pool.

[Nothanks]

Just to break this down from their perspective, you said you were OK with the dogs off leash and then called your landlady advising you had a change of mind?  Before going to speak to them directly?  And then you talked to the son and not the parents?  It was after that they confronted you at your door?  Not sure I got that right but if so…..from their perspective, it looks to them that you escalated it to the landlady without coming to them to inform them you changed your mind.  And when you did, you talked to their son (don’t care about his age….parents are protective of their children).  That doesn’t excuse the wife from being rude/crazy to you.  However, I don’t think further escalation is a good idea if you want to live in peace. Rather than going to the police and looking into lawsuits, why not wait until you see the husband outside alone and talk to him politely.  Inform him that you have been attacked by dogs before and are just wanting to feel safe in your home.  You are sorry if things have gotten off to a bad start.  You just want to get along but are looking for some understanding from them about the dogs. Calm and reasonable.  If then they go all crazy town on you, then absolutely do what you have to do.  Have your phone ready to record if it starts going wrong.  But I think if you have an opportunity to de-escalate with a reasonable party, try that first. If things do escalate, please keep your cat safe!

[Dis]

The wife was on her porch as I had my hand full walking up to mine 

 

She said, hello!

 

I was like, seriously? Yeah, she's one of those people with very little self awareness. If I was rude and threatening to someone, like she was to me, there's no way I'd think to do that. 

She literally told me she doesn't want me talking to my landlord. That was out of line and an attempt to intimidate me from speaking up for my rights. 

 

I just looked at her and said nothing back

 

I did this because I've been way too accommodating and nice to these people and I want them to know I'm not a door mat. I don't wish to escalate the situation and would never do that anyway but I don't want her to think she can speak to me the way she did and I'll be okay with it. 

 

My landlord is basically siding with them and asked me if I'd be open to meeting the dogs, I said sure as long as that woman isn't with them lol. I said I'm not interested in speaking to her again and if she does come up on my porch again I won't answer the door but I will call the cops. 

[Alpacalia]

It's unsettling to encounter two pit bulls on the loose. I don't blame you in the least!

I'm not sure about leash law violations in your area, especially given it's a communal space that neither of you owns, and since the dogs haven't done anything yet, perhaps preventive is the best strategy.

Leads, electric fences, or nylon/fabric muzzles are a couple of ideas that come to mind, and I would offer to contribute half of the expense, though this is not your financial responsibility. It may be worth it for the sake of peace of mind.

Another alternative is to agree with your neighbors on a set time slot that is the same every day where the dogs are free to be off their leash - that way, you can arrange your activities around it and know in advance when the dogs will be off the leash. Of course, they can still use the yard for their dogs, but they must be leashed outside of the allotted times.

As a side note, my best friend lived in an apartment complex and had a similar issue with her neighbor’s dog that resided in the same building.  The dog ended up biting her in her face and left her severely disfigured. Well, the owner was required to have the dog euthanized and my best friend ended up suing the dog owner’s rental insurance company.

If they are responsible dog owners, they will be willing to work with you, and will want to mitigate any potential injuries and the possibility that they would end up having to put their dogs down in the event one of their dogs caused bodily harm.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Alpaca