Paternity of my son

[Landgaber]

My wife and I have been married 26 years and have an 19,yr old.  There is an ex-boyfriend of hers who she dated for 4 years, and had an abortion with prior to us meeting.  They ended their relationship and he became best friends with her brother so he still around today.  Per my wife, they remained secretly intimate for another 6 years - only months before we met so as too keep it secret from her brother.  She claimed it was only taboo sex (and hate sex as she coined it) because they weren't supposed to be doing it.  He is still around now, however 18 years ago, he was around often, at family functions and birthday celebrations etc..
Her behavior was and still is always very odd when he is around, and while I never paid much attention to it, I found it to be very odd.  Her brother has moved away so the instances of crossing paths at those celebrations of 18 yrs ago, bit this guy has still been been popping up in our lives in the most peculiar ways.
My son is now 18 yrs old, and frankly the resemblance is shocking.  Most of our lives people have asked if we are sure he is mine.  I've been observing some very odd behavior from my wife for the last 6 years or, when his face began to start maturing, but now at 19 - its shocking.

Long story short, I had facial recognition paternity algorithms run on both him and my son, and me and my son.  He and my son came back at 88%, with 6 out of 8 features at 100%.  My son and I came back at 45% with 1 feature out of 9 at 100% - a feature that scored 100% on the other test.   I approached her and he reaction was panic.  At first she offered to get a true DNA test done, then within days she told me to do myself and listed out the repercussion, which were both understandable, but several that were just threats.  The facial recognition is completely secret.  Only I and she knows its done.  To do an actual DNA test however, will require obvious swabs or blood draw, so secrecy is out the window.  Understandable repercussions would be altering people's lives forever, possible hatred form my child, possibly divorce, but at the minimum...and massive lash-back from the wife for suggesting it in the first place.  The unreasonable repercussions would be that she would find a way to jail me or get into a mental institution, take the house and kids, and I'm homeless and have lost everyone.  I am completely blown away by her reaction.  1) she didn't seem angry - she seemed completely panicked. As I said, Ii would expect her to mortified, insulted etc.  She wasn't.   I expected a her to suggest divorce - she hasn't I'm confused. In fact it seems more like she wants to keep an eye on me so is keeping me around.  2) Her threatening me with those insane threats was clearly more panic and her doing anything to get the notion of testing out my head.  It didn't work  3) The subject has come up lightly in the past...even his name coming up from some mutual friends.....she immediately diverts the topic if she even acknowledges it at all. I would describe her as trying too hard to act nonchalant, and is failing miserably, she knows it, and cant do anything to stop it.  Note - I was really after her reaction to the face test as well as the suggestion of a DNA test.  I had no intention of doing so with her.  

I am curious about your thoughts on a)  Should i be suspicious based on the facial recognition results.  They say it can be as high as 98% accuracy, and they look identical.  b) is it possible that I am reading her reactions as suspicious when they could be normal reactions of an innocent wife?  I am able to do without consent of either my wife or my son, so I could keep it secret if i can manage to get a sample discretely.  

Would love some thoughtsu    

Edited September 19, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[central]

You don't need her consent for a DNA test.  If your son is 18, he probably needs to consent.  You could easily get a DNA sample (discarded chewing gum, spit, whatever) and get a paternity test, but it could not be used  in court (and you could be in deep doo-doo if you let it slip that you did this, so be careful if you do!).  Unless he consents to it for whatever reason - e.g. an ancestry dot com search.  All you could do with the results is decide on a divorce, and if your son is 18, you may be beyond the time frame for child support.  Of course, if he's not your biological son, he's still the son you raised and he sees you as his father - so this should NOT be about him or affect your relationship with him.  It should only influence what you do about your marriage.

Anyway, I'd be very suspicious, and on that basis would want to know for sure what the truth is.  What you DO with it is the hard part, but I would seek legal advice about my rights and responsibilities before choosing any course of action.  E.g., would paternity fraud be a viable legal issue where you live?

[DKT3]

I don't think you need a test to know she believes there is a possibility that you are not the father,  her reaction sealed the deal on that.

So my question is, what purpose would it serve? The kid is 18 and results will not invalidate your relationship with him. 

I say dump the wife, who clearly had, if not has a long term relationship with this other guy. 

If you just have to do DNA, it can be done with hair,  which you should be able to get without anyone knowing.  You can buy the kits otc and send them in. Example criGenetics is about $150 and will take 6-8 weeks.

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Landgaber said:

My wife and I have been married 26 years and have an 19,yr old.  There is an ex-boyfriend of hers who she dated for 4 years, and had an abortion with prior to us meeting.  They ended their relationship and he became best friends with her brother so he still around today.  Per my wife, they remained secretly intimate for another 6 years - only months before we met so as too keep it secret from her brother.  She claimed it was only taboo sex (and hate sex as she coined it) because they weren't supposed to be doing it.  He is still around now, however 18 years ago, he was around often, at family functions and birthday celebrations etc..
Her behavior was and still is always very odd when he is around, and while I never paid much attention to it, I found it to be very odd.  Her brother has moved away so the instances of crossing paths at those celebrations of 18 yrs ago, bit this guy has still been been popping -  Should i be suspicious based on the facial recognition results.  

The only legitimate test is DNA. But the real issue is her former lover always hanging around.

Address that first. Even in the remote chance that the boy is not yours biologically, don't you want to be his father?

Hopefully you are not discussing these theories and unproven "tests" with him. How damaging is that?

Talk to your physician about legitimate paternity tests if you have doubts.

However your wife's lover hanging around is the real problem.

[salparadise]

9 hours ago, Landgaber said:

He and my son came back at 88%, with 6 out of 8 features at 100%.  My son and I came back at 45%...

9 hours ago, Landgaber said:

The unreasonable repercussions would be that she would find a way to jail me or get into a mental institution, take the house and kids, and I'm homeless and have lost everyone.

 

 

Based on the facial recognition and her over-the-top reaction I think you already know what a DNA test will prove. Your son should probably be told at some point; the likelihood of him finding out through one of the databases, or just figuring it out on his own, is high. If your relationship with him is strong now it will probably remain so. Her threats about devastating your entire life are empty. She doesn't have the power to do much, but she could be a thorn in your side and disrupt your relationship with younger kids.

So the question is, what do you want to do about her? You don't need a DNA test or proof of an ongoing affair to divorce her, and it might be a lot easier on you and everyone else to do so quietly. So in that sense, the threat of a DNA test may be a lot more beneficial to you than exposing the paternity fraud to the world. You have that option until you exercise it.

Edited September 19, 2021 by salparadise

[Landgaber]

13 hours ago, DKT3 said:

I don't think you need a test to know she believes there is a possibility that you are not the father,  her reaction sealed the deal on that.

So my question is, what purpose would it serve? The kid is 18 and results will not invalidate your relationship with him. 

I say dump the wife, who clearly had, if not has a long term relationship with this other guy. 

If you just have to do DNA, it can be done with hair,  which you should be able to get without anyone knowing.  You can buy the kits otc and send them in. Example criGenetics is about $150 and will take 6-8 weeks.

 Well, I believe whole heartedly that he deserves to know the truth about who his biological father really is. Him knowing this doesn't make me any less his dad than if it were still a secret.  Believe me, I have no value for this man, however if he doesn't know, he deserves to also.  Sure it provides me some clarity, and explanations, but its deeper than that for me also.  My wife has severe Narcistic Personality Disorder.  By severe, I mean she ahs gone off the deep end with her need for accolades, diverting blame, most importantly manipulation techniques.  They have been very harmful to me. over our life together.  For my own personal understanding of how we are here, it is important for my healing to validate 1 way or the other my suspicions.  This info true or not, kept secret or not is vital for me.  I heavily suspect there has also been some parental alienation between me and my children.  This could be because she already suspects my oldest to not be mine, but also because narcissists tend to triangulate their mistreatment.  I am a big boy and can live with her treatment, but if I can intervene in the passing of this to my kids is also concerning me. She is dangerous

[seadoug105]

Surprise everyone with 23 and Me test.

cuz it be cool for mom and dad to learn about their family origins beyond what they learned as from their parents (grand parents).  And son gets to learn what % he got from each side.

or expand it to your brother in-law too…. Or tell him you are going to do that.  His reaction will tell you a lot.  About how much our wife and potentially her family have played you.

if everything checks out it was a great gift for the family to learn more about your sons family tree and heritage. 

If it turns out the way most expect… all your son needs to know is that it was “Innocent” gift, no matter what it said you will always be his dad.

 

[Wiseman2]

51 minutes ago, Landgaber said:

 She is dangerous

Not having proof of anything is dangerous. So is inflicting damaging false accusations of infidelity and illegitimacy. 

Does your son live at home? Do you get along with him? What is your reasoning behind hurting him with zero proof any of these wild assumptions? 

He's 19, you've been married 26 years and you believe that she is/was secretly not only having sex with this former lover but has an out-of-wedlock child with him?  

Why all this speculation 19 years after the fact?

What has happened recently that suddenly she gets the amateur's diagnosis of Narcistic Personality Disorder and your son get the amateur diagnosis of bastard?

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Landgaber]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not having proof of anything is dangerous. So is inflicting damaging false accusations of infidelity and illegitimacy. 

Does your son live at home? Do you get along with him? What is your reasoning behind hurting him with zero proof any of these wild assumptions? 

He's 19, you've been married 26 years and you believe that she is/was secretly not only having sex with this former lover but has an out-of-wedlock child with him?  

Why all this speculation 19 years after the fact?

What has happened recently that suddenly she gets the amateur's diagnosis of Narcistic Personality Disorder and your son get the amateur diagnosis of bastard?

 

Its heart wrenching you think this has to do with my need for the actual truth, or as ploy to hurt her or the child.  The fact is this....I don't want this to be true, but all the signs are pointing to the fact.  Frankly if there was no reason for her to avoid the actual test, we could do it together, with no one else the wiser.  Sure I'd have egg on my face, probably be divorced, etc.  The truth is, if he is not mine, he deserves to know his real father, and the real father deserves to know  of him as well.  Regardless of the outcome....1) I am wrong and he is my child, if he doesn't know, all that happens is his mother and father break up.  He is still my son.  2) If he isn't mine, he has the right to know who is father is, and father gets to know him.....but he is still my son....that will never change regardless of the outcome.  I will say, that since she learned about the facial recognition results, she has been acting very crazy.  Detrimental behavior, reckless behavior.  As the father I have an issue with it.  Again....I have no  "need" to hurt or decimate anybody.  This is a nightmare for me.  I'll stress....she could facilitate the secret testing with no one the wiser.  I would expect she would love to rub it in my face.  So what's the  deal?  While I love my child incessantly...he is why I am on this forum asking for perspectives.  He has rights and he deserves the truth.

The amateur's diagnosis?  Him being a bastard?  If you read the post, you'd realize  this guy is still popping up.  So why is he around 19 years later?  If you're just to insult, I am not interested.  I don't mind a respectful and informative counter argument, but yours was just ridiculous.  BTW - I am working closely with a therapist who has diagnosed her, and put me on a roadmap to healing  

[DKT3]

7 hours ago, Landgaber said:

Its heart wrenching you think this has to do with my need for the actual truth, or as ploy to hurt her or the child.  The fact is this....I don't want this to be true, but all the signs are pointing to the fact.  Frankly if there was no reason for her to avoid the actual test, we could do it together, with no one else the wiser.  Sure I'd have egg on my face, probably be divorced, etc.  The truth is, if he is not mine, he deserves to know his real father, and the real father deserves to know  of him as well.  Regardless of the outcome....1) I am wrong and he is my child, if he doesn't know, all that happens is his mother and father break up.  He is still my son.  2) If he isn't mine, he has the right to know who is father is, and father gets to know him.....but he is still my son....that will never change regardless of the outcome.  I will say, that since she learned about the facial recognition results, she has been acting very crazy.  Detrimental behavior, reckless behavior.  As the father I have an issue with it.  Again....I have no  "need" to hurt or decimate anybody.  This is a nightmare for me.  I'll stress....she could facilitate the secret testing with no one the wiser.  I would expect she would love to rub it in my face.  So what's the  deal?  While I love my child incessantly...he is why I am on this forum asking for perspectives.  He has rights and he deserves the truth.

The amateur's diagnosis?  Him being a bastard?  If you read the post, you'd realize  this guy is still popping up.  So why is he around 19 years later?  If you're just to insult, I am not interested.  I don't mind a respectful and informative counter argument, but yours was just ridiculous.  BTW - I am working closely with a therapist who has diagnosed her, and put me on a roadmap to healing  

I dont necessarily disagree with your reasoning either way.

My point earlier was basically saying you don't have to prove it to your wife, she already knows the guy is the father which is why she has allowed him to hang around,  and probably continued an off and on sexual relationship with him for all these years. 

Tell her you've dropped the whole thing, get the testing done secretly to reduce her ability to use it against you with the kids. Have the results sent to someone you trust. Then handle the results when you get them. If he is yours they never have to know you did it.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[mark clemson]

22 hours ago, Landgaber said:

My wife has severe Narcistic Personality Disorder.  By severe, I mean she ahs gone off the deep end with her need for accolades, diverting blame, most importantly manipulation techniques.  They have been very harmful to me. over our life together.  ...

I am a big boy and can live with her treatment

Perhaps, but consider -  should you?

[Bryanp]

I believe that you deserve more in your life. It is unfortunate that you do not.

[pepperbird2]

op,

I'm an adoptee, and got well versed int he use of DNA to find bio relatives. I'm in c couple of support groups for people looking for their bio families, and some pf them are people who are in the same boat your son could be in.

It's absolutely heartbreaking for them when they find out the truth. Many weren't even looking- they were just interested n learning more about their family's roots, and then something like this comes up.

I don't know what advice to give here-either way, it could be a rough road. Is there any way your wife would come clean to you? AT east that wya you'd know whether to do a test or not...or maybe you would anyway?

Edited September 20, 2021 by pepperbird2

[Wiseman2]

On 9/19/2021 at 5:54 AM, Wiseman2 said:

However your wife's lover hanging around is the real problem.

That is precisely the problem I wrote about addressing, rather than this wild goose chase regarding your son.. 

23 hours ago, Landgaber said:

you'd realize  this guy is still popping up.

 

[Nothanks]

I’m sorry to hear you are in this situation.  I’m assuming you do not want your son to know unless he is not biologically yours correct?  And you need to get a mouth swab from him?  You could tell him you would like to perform genetic testing for health reasons.  That is true.  Dealing with your wife is a whole other matter.  Sounds like you have had enough.  

[basil67]

5 hours ago, Nothanks said:

I’m sorry to hear you are in this situation.  I’m assuming you do not want your son to know unless he is not biologically yours correct?  And you need to get a mouth swab from him?  You could tell him you would like to perform genetic testing for health reasons.  That is true.  Dealing with your wife is a whole other matter.  Sounds like you have had enough.  

If the son is viewed as an adult, it is highly likely he would have to give informed consent.   Particularly, consent to having his parental DNA screened and understand the consequences of his decision. 

With regards to having genetic testing done for health reasons, I've just had genetic testing done on my son for reasons relating to his disability. But because nothing hereditary has come up, DNA of parents isn't part of the equation.  

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/testing/informedconsent/

[Nothanks]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If the son is viewed as an adult, it is highly likely he would have to give informed consent.

Not for an otc kit. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Nothanks said:

Not for an otc kit. 

Hmmm.....I just looked up an OTC kit online and it doesn't say either way about consent on the information provided.  I take it you've done one and didn't need informed consent?   

[DKT3]

I talked to an attorney friend who said it varies, however,  if you are married to the mother and the child is over 16 you can get it done without consent. The fact that he is 19 and OP is married to the mother and he is a legal parent he does not need anything in any state in the US. 

[basil67]

Did the attorney say that he can test the DNA of his adult child without that child's permission?    If so,  I'd be furious if one of my parents took my DNA and had it tested without my permission....or lied about what they were testing for.    I can't see how putting another adult's DNA out there without their permission would be legal.  

Edited September 21, 2021 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

Just contact an attorney and start filling for divorce. Cut to the chase instead of wasting time on DIY facial recognition games and don't make your son pay the price for your bad marriage.

[pepperbird2]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

Hmmm.....I just looked up an OTC kit online and it doesn't say either way about consent on the information provided.  I take it you've done one and didn't need informed consent?   

It sounds like the op's son is an adult, or at least nearly one. the idea of doing genetic testing on another adult without their informed consent bothers me, but I'm not the OP.

This is where I have a huge problem. IF ( and that's a big "if") this turns out to be another man's biological offspring he has every right to know his genetic heritage. It could even be for reasons as  mundane as knowing if he is predisposed to any diseases. This goes beyond you and your spouse. It's a human being who deserves to know his genetic background. Are you willing to keep that form him just so there can be peace in your home?

btw,YOU are his dad. Who was there for every scarped knee, every sickness, every good report card? Who was always there for him, not matter what? Who's heart broke for him every time he was sad or in pain? YOURS DID !  You did so much for him growing up, and the bond you share can never, ever be broken.

If you do decide to get paternity testing done, please know that no matter what the results, YOU are this young man's true father. I know I'm focusing on him and not your wife, but that's because he's the one here who could be totally in the dark. I am so sorry you have found yourself in this position.

[pepperbird2]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Did the attorney say that he can test the DNA of his adult child without that child's permission?    If so,  I'd be furious if one of my parents took my DNA and had it tested without my permission....or lied about what they were testing for.    I can't see how putting another adult's DNA out there without their permission would be legal.  

Even if it is, how is the conversation going to go? "son, I had your DNA tested, sorry if I didn't ask your permission. "

[Prudence V]

OP, my older brother is (very likely) not my father’s child. Like your son, throughout his life he has always looked like the cuckoo’s child, with family and others always commenting on how different he looked to myself and our younger brother. He has very unusual looks, so it’s noticeable. My father was deployed abroad around the time of his conception, and my mother was (allegedly) seeing an “old flame”, who bore a striking resemblance to my older brother - though, of course, my mother denies that, and claimed my brother’s birth was “premature”…

Either way, my father raised him as his own, with no sign he thought of him not being his kid… When my parents did eventually divorce, after we kids had all left their home, he still said nothing, and my mother always denied any accusations (until the day she died). My father, though, shortly before he died, admitted his suspicions to me privately, and I was shocked that he’d lived with it so long without breathing a word. My brother, to this day, has no idea. No tests have ever been done, and the erstwhile lover died decades earlier so nowt to be gained there. 
 

I’ve done the genetic thing for other reasons, so it’s possible that if one day he did decide to do it too (unlikely - he lives on the margins, and would not have the resources) or, more likely, his daughter did, some disparities would turn up… but there are so many companies now doing this, and none of the databases currently link up, so it’s highly unlikely, and with each passing generation more diversity gets introduced anyway. 
 

So my advice would be to let sleeping dogs lie for your son - unless he himself has questions about why he looks so different, in which case I’d be honest with him. 

[pepperbird2]

3 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

OP, my older brother is (very likely) not my father’s child. Like your son, throughout his life he has always looked like the cuckoo’s child, with family and others always commenting on how different he looked to myself and our younger brother. He has very unusual looks, so it’s noticeable. My father was deployed abroad around the time of his conception, and my mother was (allegedly) seeing an “old flame”, who bore a striking resemblance to my older brother - though, of course, my mother denies that, and claimed my brother’s birth was “premature”…

Either way, my father raised him as his own, with no sign he thought of him not being his kid… When my parents did eventually divorce, after we kids had all left their home, he still said nothing, and my mother always denied any accusations (until the day she died). My father, though, shortly before he died, admitted his suspicions to me privately, and I was shocked that he’d lived with it so long without breathing a word. My brother, to this day, has no idea. No tests have ever been done, and the erstwhile lover died decades earlier so nowt to be gained there. 
 

I’ve done the genetic thing for other reasons, so it’s possible that if one day he did decide to do it too (unlikely - he lives on the margins, and would not have the resources) or, more likely, his daughter did, some disparities would turn up… but there are so many companies now doing this, and none of the databases currently link up, so it’s highly unlikely, and with each passing generation more diversity gets introduced anyway. 
 

So my advice would be to let sleeping dogs lie for your son - unless he himself has questions about why he looks so different, in which case I’d be honest with him. 

Sorry, but as someone who was denied this knowledge for a long time, if the son turns out to not be the OPs, this could have serious consequences health wise. I think too many are focusing ot the OP and his wife, when the only "innocent' one here is the son.
It's a "brave new world" put here, an for 75 bucks Canadian, this house of cards could all fall down, and if that happens, it going to be one heck of a lot worse than it would have been if there was honesty involved.

When you get right own to it, this is an adult man He has every right to know his genetic background.

OP, if you want a better understanding of what this sort of secret can do to a person, look up "NPE" online. You'll get a real eye opener to what happens when this sort of secret is kept. It's pretty bad. The ones who seem to dot he best are the ones who handle it matter of factly and honesty.