Potential breakup-in-progress?

[Joa]

My bf (30y/o) needs a week to think things through. 
 

Background: we met a year before COVID-19 hit. Within months of starting our relationship, I moved to a different city to pursue an academic gig. A year later, he moved to the same city as me to live closer to me, but he’s unhappy here, and so am I. I’m only here to finish my degree, but this city isn’t our ideal place to live, so we started considering options to move either to his hometown or mine.
 

Now, I suffer from PTSD. Early on our relationship was a bit rocky mainly because I (now 26 y/o) had just learned (When I was 23 y/o) things that I should have learned a while ago but that my parents never taught me, things such as boundaries, healthy expression of rage, security in oneself, safety, etc... The two issues that have impacted our romantic relationship have been 1) my jealousy and 2) my expression on anger. That said, we are both very loving, caring, supporting, kind, intelligent, passionate individuals and our relationship has also been filled with so much healing, love, understanding, compassion, and profound emotionally vulnerability. We love each other so much, we dream about a future together, where our wedding is going to be, how many dogs we’re going to have, the kind of parents we want to be like, etc. My bf is unhappy living in the new city, it’s been a year since he moved here. And he’s also starting to have doubts about us because he 1) feels unhappy overall; 2) I’m learning to feel more secure and confident in myself and heal my wounds, but in a pace that isn’t as fast as we both would like it to be; and 3) sometimes - rarely - I feel activated and anger shows up and though I don’t hurt him with words or physically, I acknowledge that my screaming has an impact on him. 
 

How do I remain hopeful during this week? Any advice? 
 

I’m a badass woman. I know I have a lot to offer. I’m healing my wounds and I know this will take time. And my progress isn’t happening as fast as I want it to happen.
 

Thank you! 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa
Typo

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, Joa said:

I’m healing my wounds and I know this will take time. And my progress isn’t happening as fast as I want it to happen.

What sorts of things are you doing to address this? 

And what happens when you get angry? You mentioned screaming, so I am curious how often this happens and what triggers you. The same with your jealousy. When and why does that show up, and how do you cope with jealous feelings? 

Anger and jealousy can definitely be relationship-killers, so I can understand why he's not happy in the relationship at this point. I personally don't think a week apart is going to change anything, in practical terms. He might indeed need some breathing space, though. The point is not to be hopeful, really, but to be realistic about your future prospects as a couple. Perhaps you two don't actually mesh that well. 

[Joa]

3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

And what happens when you get angry? You mentioned screaming, so I am curious how often this happens and what triggers you. The same with your jealousy. When and why does that show up, and how do you cope with jealous feelings? 

 

I’m doing everything I can: therapy, journaling, praying, reading up on relevant books, and putting the things I’ve learned into practice when it’s appropriate. 
 

One of my triggers is my fear of abandonment. He used to have a wandering eye. He’s very friendly and is attracted to pretty much every woman he sees. We are open with each other about our attraction to other people, it just happens that he’s around more prospects and attractive people. My jealousy is around his wandering eye and the relationship he has with women he used to flirt with or women he *could* flirt with. When we talk about his attraction to other women, I ask him questions and he gets frustrated and that to me communicates that he’s hiding something or not being honest with me, but we talk it out. The issue is we have conversations like this often. He’s hurting because I don’t trust him. 
 

I want to trust him. He’s worthy of my trust. I’ve never met a man - not even my dad - who’s been safe to me. I’ve learned to not trust men. But with my bf, I’ve learned so much about myself and relationships and I keep learning more about myself. He inspires me to be a better person, and I have been growing so much just by learning to love myself and others the way he loves me.

I want to believe we can meet halfway, express our needs, and trust that things will be better because we’re both evolving and because we both want this relationship to work out. 

[ExpatInItaly]

5 minutes ago, Joa said:

He used to have a wandering eye. He’s very friendly and is attracted to pretty much every woman he sees. We are open with each other about our attraction to other people,

May I ask why? There is being open, and then there is having poor boundaries or an appropriate filter. There is no need to discuss who you're both attracted to. Seriously, why are you two having these conversations? No wonder you feel anxious and insecure. Dating a flirty guy with a "wandering eye" who is attracted to every women he sees will do that to you.

That's not a you problem. That's a him problem. It's not appropriate behaviour for a guy with a girlfriend, so I am not clear why you feel that you somehow need to change. I would not be so quick to take the blame on that. 

 

 

[Joa]

19 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

May I ask why?

Sure. I want to be fair: he is respectful. He used to have a wandering eye, not anymore. He, however, likes to look around and see women, men, people, his environment, and that, of course, includes women. He says he acknowledges attraction, but he doesn’t stare or look at a woman just because he’s attracted to her, he doesn’t want to make women feel uncomfortable around him. I’d say, my issue is that I sometimes feel paranoid about his gaze so I’d ask him questions such as “hey I noticed you looked that way where X woman is at, did you mean to look there? Do you think she’s attractive?” And we’d have a brief conversation, we talk it out. But recently, for example, he didn’t tell me he was planing on stopping by a former colleague’s office to say hi to her. He’s visiting his former workplace in a few weeks and thought about saying hi to all his colleague friends. They, however, used to flirt until he met me. I got upset that he didn’t at least communicate to me that he was planning on seeing this person, even if it was for a quick stop by. I asked him not to see her, but he feels it’s unfair to ask him not to connect with her (whom he refers to as his “friend”). Mind you, they haven’t communicated at all for almost 2 years, so that to me doesn’t fit the definition of a friendship. But I get it, he wants me to trust him and not to make a big deal out of that situation because I’ve made a big deal out of similar situations before. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa

[Joa]

30 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That's not a you problem

It feels like it’s a me problem because 5/10 times when we’re outside I check in with him about things that I’m seeing but that I want to seek clarity on. Sometimes I think I see him looking at a woman, so I ask to clarify. But I’ve done it pretty much since I had a conversation with him about his wandering eye (about 2 years ago). I can see how it can be exhausting to keep answering the same questions. 
 

With respect to my anger, I used to scream to be seen and heard because my inner/wounded self felt that her need to be seen, understood, and heard wasn’t being met. But he’s actually been pretty good at holding space for me. During the pandemic, which is when I learned that the screaming was a projection of my rage, I used to get activated a few times a week for a few weeks, but then I started to learn coping and self-soothing techniques and in the past 2-3 months I’ve only screamed twice to say 2-3 sentences and then I’d calm down, breathe, and be open to hear his side. I do consider I’m getting better, but my guess is that it doesn’t matter if I’m expressing my anger less (via the screaming), it’s that that is probably a trigger for him at this point.   

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa

[ExpatInItaly]

9 minutes ago, Joa said:

He used to have a wandering eye, not anymore.

It's not clear what this means, exactly. 

Was he inappropriate with other women after he started dating you?

[Joa]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Was he inappropriate with other women after he started dating you?

Not after we started dating (that I’m aware of). He used to flirt and hookup with anyone he was attracted to and who shared the attraction for him. Now, he’s in a committed, monogamous relationship with me, so we’ve talked about boundaries around our attraction toward other people (for instance,  I’d tell him “be honest with yourself about your attraction to X person and honor me in your interactions with her”). And I believe he IS respectful and that he honors me. But sometimes I feel insecure, for example, when we go to a restaurant and there are attractive women. If I see he’s looking at them I’d ask him about his intention, and he would say he wasn’t looking at them, or that he quickly acknowledged their beauty but that it’s not his intention or interest to keep looking at them. But the mere act of constantly asking for clarification bothers him because he wants me to trust him. And I want to trust him too. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa

[ExpatInItaly]

Just now, Joa said:

He used to flirt and hookup with anyone he was attracted to and who shared the attraction for him

This is why I am little confused. A "wandering eye" implies that one is scoping out other prospects (or even cheating) even though they are in a relationship, not just a guy who hooked up with a lot of women while he was single.

So to be clear, he has never flirted with or hooked up with other women while he was dating you?

 

 

[Joa]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

he has never flirted with or hooked up with other women while he was dating you?

No, as far as I’m concerned, he has never flirted with or hooked up with other women since we started dating. He wouldn’t do that to me. I KNOW he wouldn’t cheat on me or disrespect me. I KNOW he loves me and he wouldn’t hurt me like that. I KNOW he knows when to draw boundaries with women. Yet, I ask him a lot of clarification questions about the women he’s attracted to, and then I drop it after we have a conversation. But I keep asking questions every time there’s someone he’s attracted to. 
 

Him wanting to visit his “friend” / former colleague / former woman he used to flirt with *until* he met me and not telling me about it was out of character. He feels it’s unfair for me to ask him to not see his “friend”—but I do feel bothered that he’s going to see someone he says he “cares about”, even though we’re both VERY clear they used to flirt big time at work. I know this because he told me about it. 
 

The main issue is this according to him, and I grew with him: 1) I’m insecure. I trust him, I trust he won’t cheat on me but I dislike that he finds other women attractive and that he’s friendly with them. 2) Sometimes I scream when I’m angry. He feels activated when I scream because it reminds him of his dad and because screaming isn’t a healthy way to express anger/frustration/sadness, etc 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa

[ExpatInItaly]

Thanks for the clarification. You made it sound as though he was trying to get with other women behind your back, but it appears that isn't the case. 

I dated a guy for a while who would try to grill me about every guy he thought entered my field of vision. He actually imagined a lot of this, but sit poke to his overall deep insecurtiy and lack of respect for me - that sort of interrogation suggests he didn't think highly enough of me to know I wouldn't be checking out the other hotties right in front of him. I found it exhausting and it turned me off, to be very blunt. 

He also got upset easily, and yes, was a yeller. Also quite direspectful and a turn-off. I had at one time found him very attractive but that disappeared as his poor behaviour continued. I just couldn't find it in me anymore to want to be with him. 

All I can really say is that at a certain point, it's too late. Your bofyriend might have already gotten to that point, where he just isn't interested in dealing with it anymore. I don't say that to dash your hopes but it sounds like he's tired. I would also assume that's why he didn't tell you he wants to see this former colleague - he's checking out of the relationship and isn't that bothered about why it might rub you the wrong way. Not a great sign. 

Are you currently in any sort of counselling to manage your anger and insecurity in general, though? 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[Joa]

13 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

that sort of interrogation suggests he didn't think highly enough of me to know I wouldn't be checking out the other hotties right in front of him. I found it exhausting and it turned me off, to be very blunt. 

How would you have liked him to be instead? If he felt insecure about himself, do you think there could have been a way for him to express his insecurities to you without impacting you/the relationship? Or the fact that he was insecure turned you off, regardless of how he expressed it? 
 

We have a couple’s therapist. We’re actually speaking to her tomorrow. We also have individual therapists. Mine is really good. I wish issues of insecurity had a quick fix but they take time. I’m working on it as much as I can and allowing time to heal me too. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Joa

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, Joa said:

Or the fact that he was insecure turned you off, regardless of how he expressed it? 

We all have our insecurities from time to time. So it's not that I expected him (or any other man) to never be insecure. That isn't realistic, nor fair. 

It was the constant questioning about other men in my vicinity that was draining and unecessary. I would have prefered he learn to self-soothe and tackle his own negative thoughts without needing constant reassurance from me. As an adult, we have to have better coping mechanisms and better relationships with ourselves before we can expect to have a healthy relationship with anyone else. That sort of eediness is never attractive, and I couldn't be his emotional babysitter. 

That and his anger issues ultimately destroyed the attraction and feelings I'd once had for him, and I let him go. 

[glows]

1 hour ago, Joa said:

future together,

where our wedding is going to be,

how many dogs we’re going to have,

the kind of parents we want to be like, etc. 

My bf is unhappy living in the new city, it’s been a year since he moved here.

I’m a badass woman.

I know I have a lot to offer.

OP, these are the only words above that read tangibly to me in where you stand with each other and what actions either of you are willing to take if any. How exactly is this man demonstrating any future with you and has he proposed? 

You know what you have to offer. What does he have to offer you? 

So far, you're going out and noticing he has a wandering eye. He likes to meet up with old flirtatious colleagues and dismisses your concerns. You feel more worried and anxious because he has stopped listening to you. He disagrees with you and is no longer hiding his disagreement. There is a lot of talking between the both of you but not enough doing. What are either of you doing to demonstrate that love you are saying you have for each other? Does he listen to you and put that love into action? Or does he continue to dismiss you and stare at other women? He's unhappy with the current situation so is he working actively to change or relocate? Does he approach you about budgets for moving for example and contribute to plans for your future together? 

I ask these things because you may be sensing that he's scattered and not as committed to your future as all that talk led you to believe. Or, he's pulling away because things aren't as good as they seem. His behaviours don't strike me as a man who's loyal and dedicated to his life with you. 

Perhaps it's time to rethink the way you're approaching this and ask yourself what he has to offer at all - really. 

[Blind-Sided]

I'm not going to comment on specifics on what I have read.... but just let him go.  Accept that you aren't a "Badass Woman"... you have anger issues.  Giving yourself a tough label, doesn't make it true.  And honestly... to me... giving yourself a label like that just gives you an accuse and/or a place to hide the real you. Work on yourself before wanting to bond with others. 

I wish you peace in moving forward. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Blind-Sided

[d0nnivain]

7 hours ago, Joa said:

healthy expression of rage,

The above jumped out at me.  There are healthy expressions of anger but not "rage" IMO.  The fact that you use the word rage a lot in your various posts seems quite troubling to me.   There is never a reason for anger to get so out of control that you are enraged.  Therein lies your 1st problem.  The idea that this happens to you so often that you find yourself screaming multiple times per week, you need anger management in the worst way. 

All this jealousy is all you.  When your BF was single he flirted & dated around.  Single people are allowed to do that.  Now that you are together he's monogamous but you keep picking at him, accusing him & making him talk about stuff that should never be given voice.  He has a eyes.  The fact that he noticed an attractive woman briefly then moved on is not something that merits comment or a discussion by you.  Stop demanding that he explain himself every time his eyes land on a woman.  Good gracious.  It's not him that is driving his "wandering eye."  It's you.  Also not every conversation between a man & a woman is flirtatious or inappropriate.  Even if there are light hearted jokes or smiles, that is human interaction not flirting that is detrimental to your relationship.  You are obsessed & it's unhealthy & unattractive. 

It sounds like this guy has done a lot for you.  Putting up with your rages.  Moving to be with you.  Yet all you do is pick & accuse.  Sadly I think this relationship has run it's course.  You have proved to be somebody he doesn't really want to spend a life time dealing with you & your issues.  A couple's therapist for a dating relationship is a waste of time & money.  If your relationship is so bad you need professional help to maintain it, just break up because it's not working.  Do stay with your IC because you have a lot of issues that need to be resolved.  

[assertives]

16 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

 A couple's therapist for a dating relationship is a waste of time & money.  If your relationship is so bad you need professional help to maintain it, just break up because it's not working.

This. Dating is a try out to see if you are compatible as life partners. If at the dating stage and you both already need therapy to help navigate the relationship, it's not working and you guys are not suitable for each other. 

I too think that this relationship has ran its course. It frankly sounds like he's tired and him not telling you about meeting that ex coworker may not be because he has anything to hide, but might be because he knows it's going to end up with another one of those conversations that at this stage is probably one too many that he's had enough of. 

It sounds like he's done alot for you and have put up alot to be with you. You may have alot to offer but the issues you have will take some time to resolve and I do think it's not very fair to put him through your issues. Have you considered also what kind of negative impact your issues could have on him? If this does end in a break up, I'd really suggest spending some time staying single, work on your issues for awhile before starting to date again.

[ExpatInItaly]

On 9/20/2021 at 8:53 AM, Joa said:

We have a couple’s therapist.

This is your sign that your relationship is probably already over. 

When you need a couple's therapist after just 2 years of dating, the relationship is limping its way to the end. 

[Wiseman2]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:39 AM, Joa said:

 Sometimes I scream when I’m angry. 

Well, you'll have to work on your anger and communication skills rather than resorting to being abusive.

Have you seen a physician about the moods and anxiety? Start there.