Defund the police - U.K.

[Prudence V]

In the wake of Sarah Everard’s murder, and the trial of her murderer (a serving policeman who “arrested” her under false pretences and then raped and murdered her), the North Yorks.  Police and Crime Commissioner went on record to say that women should basically all become lawyers so we can identify a groundless arrest and resist. It has also transpired that the murderer was part of a police WhatsApp group that openly embraced racism and misogyny - and that other members of the Met who were members of this group are still on active duty, despite being under investigation. 
 

Of course social media has gone wild with outrage, for all the obvious reasons, and there has been the inevitable defence (“don’t blame the whole force because of a couple of bad apples”) which has been countered by hundreds of women posting stories of abuse and harassment at the hands of police, and comparisons made to how black people are treated by police (in the US especially)… 

Stephen Lawrence still stands as an example of institutional racism in the police, but perhaps institutional misogyny and other forms of institutionalised oppression need to be investigated in the same way, but with some real consequences this time. And perhaps it’s time for the UK’s own “defund the police” campaign? 

[elaine567]

The police force is just a reflection of society.
Society in general revels in misogyny whether covert or overt.

This individual nicknamed "the rapist" was allegedly into brutal porn ( " harmless") and was into misogynistic whatsapp groups ("just a bit of fun").
We have normalised such activities, we say it is none of our business, it is all harmless, boys will be boys, locker room talk...
Every week we are "entertained" by. some drama about a sadistic serial killer who preys on women, we are surrounded by rape and abuse of women.
The news is full of women being murdered, abused and tortured.
We all now hardly flinch...

The police force is severely underfunded and with it being stretched to capacity then when will it ever have time to vet itself.
They are just happy to get people, I guess they do not want to look too closely.
They gave this weird kind of a guy a gun...

[Prudence V]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

This individual nicknamed "the rapist"

Three days before the abduction and murder, he was driving around with only his top body clothed, indecently exposing himself to women. 
 

A serving policeman. And they chose not to follow it up. 

[elaine567]

I guess he was just losing it.
He managed to cover up his dysfunction until he could hide it no longer.
 

[skins33]

Never going to happen

- the country is right wing

- the conservatives have a massive majority in parliament (the only challenge in the last decade has been from other right wing parties such as UKIP - which is how Brexit happened)

- even the left wing opposition leader has expressly stated on national TV that defunding the police is not a good idea

[ ] 

Edited October 3, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
fact checking required

[skins33]

I quote from the Labour party conference:

“No Labour home secretary will ever defund the police. That’s not our party, that’s the Tory party, and they have spent 10 years defunding our police,” he told delegates in Brighton.

[Woggle]

There needs to be serious reform and house cleaning in police departments but any functional society needs laws and people to enforce them.

[Taramere]

As far as misogyny goes, it's everywhere.  I'm mistrustful of any political party that claims to be the party tackling it, because mostly what I see when it comes to the crunch is sexual violence against women being used as a political pawn.  Something to be screamed about or minimised depending on how politically convenient or inconvenient it happens to be....and I suspect that if I were black I'd feel the same way about racism.  

I think we should always be mindful of the relationship between social problems and crime - and of the impact that insufficient funding in addressing those problems can have.  As far as I can see, the slogan "defund the police" means different things to different people.  I don't think it's a helpful slogan since it raises ideas and fears about an anarchic society where people increasingly look to unregulated vigilante groups, organised crime and private security firms for protection depending on their income and life circumstances. 

If what people really mean, when they say it, is that some funds should be diverted towards other services such as mental health and youth work, then I think it's preferable to make positive commentary regarding those other services the focus...rather than having the focus on defunding a service that the vast majority of people likely view as an essential service. I'm of the view that the best way to handle allegations of serious misconduct is through an independently conducted, exhaustive public inquiry.  Hastily concocted policies that come as a knee-jerk reaction to public rage and protests are not my idea of a reliable basis for a well run society.  Consider parts of the US where the notion of defunding the police put into practice over the past year with some very negative outcomes resulting in what probably end up being very expensive policy reversals.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/25/us/defund-police-crime-spike/index.html

I think we should remember that we're a very different society in the UK to the US.  We have our own system governing the wayhealth services are funded and delivered, and how statutory provisions regulate the duties of various agencies (police included) involved in tackling social ills - and how those agencies are expected to work together.  London seems to be deteriorating dramatically in terms of levels of violent crime.  I think funding cuts affecting provision of community centres for young people has had a very detrimental impact - and it may well be the case that more funding of these services with a reduced police service being the ultimate opportunity cost would be the right approach...but I think there would have to be a costly bridging period where policing levels remain the same while youth facilities are being implemented/improved.  I just don't think kneejerk policies that are created in a hasty response to outbreaks of public anger and outrage lead to the best outcomes, or to a secure, well functioning and mature society.

 

 

[spiderowl]

There needs to be an independent investigation into the vetting of police officers and any related staff who interact with the public and into the culture in the police.  I understand the Home Secretary has already announced that this will take place.

As another poster said, the police reflect the society within which they work.  They are not perfect and are subject to the same prejudices as others.

There will always be those who slip through the net, but hopefully better vetting will make this less likely.  

Another issue is what serving police staff can do if they have concerns about the behaviour of a fellow officer/staff member.  They need to have a proper route to deal with this, probably an anonymous route to inform authorities because otherwise who is going to 'tell' on a fellow police officer?  It seems some women in the force are now saying they did not feel they could do anything about instances where they felt the culture was toxic towards women because they would be victimised or disbelieved themselves.

It goes without saying that if you have a job where being an authority and 'controlling' others is part of the role, that job is going to attract people who like exercising control over others.  This is perhaps one more reason why extra caution needs to be taken when vetting people for this kind of job.

One thing I want to say is that this is not a new phenomenon.  I remember my female friend and I being stopped by a police car late at night when we were returning home from a night club in a nearby town.  Apparently, one of the front headlights was not working.  (In those days, the police usually warned people to get it fixed.   Nowadays they just fine you because it's all about money not making people safe!)  Having checked who owned the car (my Dad), they told us to get the light fixed and we were sent on our way.  Ten minutes later, we were stopped again by the same police car.  There were the same two male police officers and they both got out to check us and both were smirking.  I felt pretty sure they knew it was the same car, but just further along the road.  Again, they checked us out and told us to get the headlight fixed.  We went on our way and were not bothered by them again.  At the time, I thought they had just spotted the car light was out and stopped us twice by mistake, but now I wonder why they stopped us twice when it was two young women driving late at night.  The roads there were so remote and quiet that the chances of it being a different car and driver were next to none.  They must have recognised the type of car if not the number plate and known it was us.  Were they just bored and playing, checking out women, or what?  This was over thirty years ago.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by spiderowl