Am I an extremist?

[Henry_shalom]

I have so many turn offs and deal breakers, and chief amongst them is people that turn out to be flakes when it comes to honouring comittments or doing what they say they would. And in recent years, i've been far more tolerant of this behaviour from friends and acquaintances most especially on the female side.


I've been friends with someone for sometime--a coworker. She and i work in different departments in a massive distribution company. She's one of those coworkers that you bump into like once in 2 weeks. But the first time she and i officially crossed paths was when a manager tasked her to test me on a computer program, which is a mandatory exercise for staffs that wants to switch departments. We started talking casually, and sort of took it online. At some point i told her that i liked her, that she's cool and friendly, and that i'd like to hang out with her. She told me that she'sinterested; that whenever i'm ready, i should hit her up. Last 3 Saturdays, i asked her if she'll be free to meet the next day, she asked me the time and place, and she agreed that she'll be there.

The next day rolled around and i called and ask her where she was, that i'm already close to the meeting venue. She told me she can't come; that the venue is too far from where she stays; that we should leave it for another time. To say that I was horn-mad would be an understatement. I was apoplectic with anger, not just because she bailed on me last minute without giving me any heads up, but because i cancelled so many appointments that day.

After that incident, my tolerant level declined so massively to the point that i started cutting off friendships from folks that treated me in similar fashion.

Today, after work, she approached me and was asking what she did wrong that caused my attitude towards her to change, because i've been ignoring her. [ ]

I was telling a friend about this, and he called me an extremist; that disappointments like these shouldn't warrant me acting this way.


 

Edited October 8, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Henry_shalom said:

 We started talking casually, and sort of took it online. At some point i told her that i liked her, that she's cool and friendly, and that i'd like to hang out with her. 

That's ok. You need to handle that not everyone wants to date for whatever reason. No harm no foul.

Just be polite professional and don't walk around with a chip on your shoulder because someone didn't want to date.

Let it roll off your back. Just start talking to and asking other women out, preferably ones you don't work with.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Pumpernickel]

I can somewhat relate. And @Wiseman2 I don't think this was about dating necessarily.

I used to be much more "extremist" in my younger years. If I make an appointment, I am usually reliable and show up on time. I have no patience for flaky people, BUT I do understand that things can come up. I am more mature now, and older and more experienced, and also more patient, so I no longer cut people out of my life for small faux-pas or mishaps, but I definitely make no effort, either. Soooo, if people stand me up, I try to be understanding (there ARE familiy emergencies and sitter-no-shows and whatnot), but I won't be proactive about the next get-together fosho....... I will just patiently wait it out; I will wait to be invited out/treated for dinner etc. without making much effort  while prioritizing other friends in the meantime. No big deal. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Pumpernickel

[Henry_shalom]

9 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok. You need to handle that not everyone wants to date for whatever reason. No harm no foul.

Just be polite professional and don't walk around with a chip on your shoulder because someone didn't want to date.

Let it roll off your back. Just start talking to and asking other women out, preferably ones you don't work with.

 

You're missing the point. This wasn't about dating. This is about people's behaviour, especially when it comes to honouring comittments.

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, Henry_shalom said:

This is about people's behaviour, especially when it comes to honouring comittments.

Ok, personally I have no time for flakes. I just bow out of that. 

[basil67]

I agree with your friend.  Yes, her behavior was rude, and I'd advise not bothering with her again.   Disappointment, frustration, or being cross would all be understandable, but "I was apoplectic with anger" is a very extreme reaction, and frankly, out of proportion to the crime.

Save the apoplectic fury for when someone does something really really terrible to you.   But let the smaller stuff wash off or else you'll end up hurting your own physical and mental health.

[dramafreezone]

3 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

Last 3 Saturdays, i asked her if she'll be free to meet the next day, she asked me the time and place, and she agreed that she'll be there.

Ok, so this is a red flag.

Whenever I used to ask a woman out for the next day (I don't do this anymore), and she says yes, then that's someone that's a high flake risk.  She's just agreeing reflexively.  I don't know many women that can fit you in the next day, even if they like you.   If she is really available the next day and likes you that much then she'll act completely different, she'd tell you she's on her way there without you asking.

3 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

The next day rolled around and i called and ask her where she was, that i'm already close to the meeting venue. She told me she can't come; that the venue is too far from where she stays; that we should leave it for another time

Man I've been at the restauarant, with the flaker saying that she had to go to the vet for her sick dog 😀.  What a coincidence, at the very time we were supposed to go out.   I handled it much better than you did lol, I simply told her that I hope her dog feels better and didn't ever text her again.

Flaking is just an unfortunate part of dating.  This one won't be the last.  You'll have to grow thicker skin and not take it personally, though I know how hard that is.

Edited October 9, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Henry_shalom]

5 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Ok, so this is a red flag.

Whenever I used to ask a woman out for the next day (I don't do this anymore), and she says yes, then that's someone that's a high flake risk.  She's just agreeing reflexively.  I don't know many women that can fit you in the next day, even if they like you.   If she is really available the next day and likes you that much then she'll act completely different, she'd tell you she's on her way there without you asking.

Man I've been at the restauarant, with the flaker saying that she had to go to the vet for her sick dog 😀.  What a coincidence, at the very time we were supposed to go out.   I handled it much better than you did lol, I simply told her that I hope her dog feels better and didn't ever text her again.

Flaking is just an unfortunate part of dating.  This one won't be the last.  You'll have to grow thicker skin and not take it personally, though I know how hard that is.

Sick dog? That's funny. 

But the crux of my problem is that i get this same behaviour from my male friends as well. The female side i've been tolerating, but getting that from my male friends kinda makes my hair stand on end. This incident was was a last straw that struck a nerve.

If she had called or texted saying she was unable to make it, i'd have been okay with that, but calling her myself and finding out last minute is utterly disrespectful. I've heard enough.

Anyways, appreciate your feedback 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Henry_shalom

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

After that incident, my tolerant level declined so massively to the point that i started cutting off friendships from folks that treated me in similar fashion.

It's annoying to be cancelled at the last minute. I'm not sure that severing all ties with pals is the best solution. I just wouldn't go out of my way to establish plans in the future.

You might try to communicate your disappointment while realizing that your time is valuable.

Nobody wants to feel insignificant or as if their time is unimportant.

[Taramere]

12 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

After that incident, my tolerant level declined so massively to the point that i started cutting off friendships from folks that treated me in similar fashion.

Today, after work, she approached me and was asking what she did wrong that caused my attitude towards her to change, because i've been ignoring her. 

I think it is a mistake, and somewhat extreme, to suddenly decide to take a zero tolerance approach towards certain behaviour that you've tolerated in the past - and adopt a purging approach towards any friends who have been guilty of that behaviour at times.   I'm sure most of us have been guilty of cancelling on people at the last minute at times, sometimes due to practical obstacles or as a result of ill health.  From the other person's perspective it probably looks like flaking even if from our point of view we had sound reasons for cancelling.  Nobody likes to be let down at the last minute.

In this situation, her reason for cancelling was rude.  It wasn't related to ill health or another obstacle that had suddenly sprung up.  She just decided at the last moment that the meeting place was too far away.  I really felt your frustration when you talked about the things you'd cancelled in order to be able to meet her.

I think when she asked you why you were ignoring her, that was your opportunity to explain your frustration to her.  However, you've mentioned having been apoplectic with rage, and perhaps you felt unable to give an explanation when you were still feeling that angry.  I think that's probably always a good decision.  Even if other people regard it as passive aggressive, if you're at a point where you feel so angry with another person that you don't trust yourself to speak to them without exploding, silence and even ignoring them is by far the better option.  No matter what the reason or provocation, if you feel apoplectic with rage then the first priority is to address that and get it under control.  There's all sorts of advice out there on methods you can use to manage your anger, and I'm sure if you wanted to open a thread on anger management methods on here then people would contribute. 

Anger is one of those emotions/sources of energy that can be hard to deal with because we go through life getting mixed messages about it....basically often amounting to "if you're angry about the same things that make me angry then your anger is not only fine but laudable.  If you're angry about things I don't get angry about/don't think you should get angry about, then you're dysfunctional and need to get a grip of yourself."  If we can leave those lessons aside and just look at the anger itself (rather than the causes, and whether or not our anger is "righteous" or justified) then it probably starts to become easier to manage that anger before it manages us and dictates our life choices for us.

I think if you handle it, once you've got a grip over your anger it would be a good idea to answer her question.  I do think it's quite extraordinary that somebody who let you down at the last minute in that way wouldn't know why you're angry and ignoring her...but since she's asked, I'd give her an answer once you're calmer.  To let her know that you'd put effort into setting aside time to meet her, and that you felt it was rude of her to cancel for no reason other than that she'd decided at the 11th hour that it was too much trouble to reach that particular venue.  The problem with taking the opportunity to let somebody know why you're angry with them is that they'll often respond in a way that's likely to result in drama.  But if you're ready for any sort of response, including responses that would be unreasonable by any standard, you'll be better equipped to shrug and say "you asked me a question, I gave you an answer" and leave it there.

Definitely address the anger, though.  "Extremist" seems like a strange choice of words.  I read that thread and thought you were going to be talking about some sort of political extremism, but this seems like more of a anger management and relationship issue.

[Interstellar]

not an extremist at all. this is about keeping your word and honoring commitments.

and a lot of americans nowadays no longer honor that. it’s about what have you done for me lately?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Interstellar

[elaine567]

15 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

Last 3 Saturdays, i asked her if she'll be free to meet the next day,

Why are you leaving it to the Saturday to ask her if she wants to meet on a Sunday?
Most have things to do on a weekend.
I guess she agreed out of politeness, having declined the other times I presume, but had likely no intention of meeting you at such short notice on a weekend, or she never realised the venue was so far away...
If all your friends are letting you down, then you need to look closely at what you are actually offering these people with your presence.
Friendship as you get older evolves, people do not feel the need to keep up with friendships they may feel they are getting little or nothing out of.
As people age they find they have other things to do with their lives, and "hanging out" goes down the priority list.

Get your anger under control, it IS extreme and inappropriate under the circumstances

[Lotsgoingon]

16 hours ago, Henry_shalom said:

To say that I was horn-mad would be an understatement. I was apoplectic with anger, not just because she bailed on me last minute without giving me any heads up, but because i cancelled so many appointments that day.
 

Big mistake here: NEVER cancel appointments for a date. You fit the date around the appointments--unless you are using the date as an excuse to get out of something you don't want to do anyway. And frankly, I'm not clear that this was a date. I have always had coworkers I hung out with, including women. 

You are sacrificing way too much if you got mad because you canceled appointments. I don't cancel appointments for meetings even with super-close friends, unless it is an emergency (as in a close friend's parent dies) or if it looks like I won't otherwise be able to see the person for another month. And if this meeting was a date, you never want to cancel things on your calendar because the message you send to yourself is that you are desperate and that desperation announces itself even when you're asking the person out or when you show up to the date. The meeting or date has to fit YOUR life. 

BTW: The other person doesn't know that you have canceled events to meet with them. So you are bringing high expectations to the meetings without telling them of those expectations. That's actually unfair to them.

If a bunch of people have canceled on you, it's likely you're doing something wrong in your asking them out. Might be that you make this all seem really casual and they don't know how firm this meeting is (or how important it is to you). I don't contact people the night before a meeting, but maybe you need to do that if people are flaking. 

So no, your reaction and anger is not reasonable. It's over the top. But I get your anger because somehow you are giving up too much. 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Pumpernickel]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

I guess she agreed out of politeness, having declined the other times I presume, but had likely no intention of meeting you at such short notice on a weekend, or she never realised the venue was so far away...

Maybe, but that’s not on him. She could’ve said no if she had no intention to meet him, not cancel last minute. I think he did nothing wrong. What is on him is that he canceled other plans for her. That’s his problem entirely. 

[glows]

You ignored her flakiness in the past, twice before on consecutive weekends, so don't do that anymore. It's just shelving that anger and letting it fester and grow. Deal with it in a manageable way. I leave room for emergencies and someone canceling once due to a valid reason. Past that it's on you to evaluate whether the other person is valuing your time or as interested in meeting with you, regardless of the relationship. 

[Henry_shalom]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:46 AM, Taramere said:

 

I think when she asked you why you were ignoring her, that was your opportunity to explain your frustration to her.  However, you've mentioned having been apoplectic with rage, and perhaps you felt unable to give an explanation when you were still feeling that angry.  I think that's probably always a good decision.  Even if other people regard it as passive aggressive, if you're at a point where you feel so angry with another person that you don't trust yourself to speak to them without exploding, silence and even ignoring them is by far the better option.  No matter what the reason or provocation, if you feel apoplectic with rage then the first priority is to address that and get it under control.  There's all sorts of advice out there on methods you can use to manage your anger, and I'm sure if you wanted to open a thread on anger management methods on here then people would contribute. 

Anger is one of those emotions/sources of energy that can be hard to deal with because we go through life getting mixed messages about it....basically often amounting to "if you're angry about the same things that make me angry then your anger is not only fine but laudable.  If you're angry about things I don't get angry about/don't think you should get angry about, then you're dysfunctional and need to get a grip of yourself."  If we can leave those lessons aside and just look at the anger itself (rather than the causes, and whether or not our anger is "righteous" or justified) then it probably starts to become easier to manage that anger before it manages us and dictates our life choices for us.

I think if you handle it, once you've got a grip over your anger it would be a good idea to answer her question.  I do think it's quite extraordinary that somebody who let you down at the last minute in that way wouldn't know why you're angry and ignoring her...but since she's asked, I'd give her an answer once you're calmer.  To let her know that you'd put effort into setting aside time to meet her, and that you felt it was rude of her to cancel for no reason other than that she'd decided at the 11th hour that it was too much trouble to reach that particular venue.  The problem with taking the opportunity to let somebody know why you're angry with them is that they'll often respond in a way that's likely to result in drama.  But if you're ready for any sort of response, including responses that would be unreasonable by any standard, you'll be better equipped to shrug and say "you asked me a question, I gave you an answer" and leave it there.

Definitely address the anger, though.  "Extremist" seems like a strange choice of words.  I read that thread and thought you were going to be talking about some sort of political extremism, but this seems like more of a anger management and relationship issue.

Reading your last four paragraphs was a tremendous eye-opener. Yes, I'm aware that i have some anger issues, but i didn't think about it having any form of bearing in this event.

Anyways, appreciate your candid advice and your detailed objective assessment on this. And as well your use of smart choice of words.

Thank you!

[Henry_shalom]

22 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Big mistake here: NEVER cancel appointments for a date. You fit the date around the appointments--unless you are using the date as an excuse to get out of something you don't want to do anyway. And frankly, I'm not clear that this was a date. I have always had coworkers I hung out with, including women. 

You are sacrificing way too much if you got mad because you canceled appointments. I don't cancel appointments for meetings even with super-close friends, unless it is an emergency (as in a close friend's parent dies) or if it looks like I won't otherwise be able to see the person for another month. And if this meeting was a date, you never want to cancel things on your calendar because the message you send to yourself is that you are desperate and that desperation announces itself even when you're asking the person out or when you show up to the date. The meeting or date has to fit YOUR life. 

BTW: The other person doesn't know that you have canceled events to meet with them. So you are bringing high expectations to the meetings without telling them of those expectations. That's actually unfair to them.

 

 

I'm realising my mistakes now. My problem is i place too much expectations on people, and when they don't conform to those expectations, i get mad. 

[Henry_shalom]

21 hours ago, glows said:

You ignored her flakiness in the past, twice before on consecutive weekends, so don't do that anymore. It's just shelving that anger and letting it fester and grow. Deal with it in a manageable way. I leave room for emergencies and someone canceling once due to a valid reason. Past that it's on you to evaluate whether the other person is valuing your time or as interested in meeting with you, regardless of the relationship. 

3 Weekends ago was when i first made the arrangements with her, and when she didn't show up, i ignored her till recently. 

But i do get your point on the anger issue, which is the common train of thought amongst the respondents here.

Thank you for the feedback and also for taking the time to respond.

 

[Henry_shalom]

23 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Why are you leaving it to the Saturday to ask her if she wants to meet on a Sunday?
Most have things to do on a weekend.
I guess she agreed out of politeness, having declined the other times I presume, but had likely no intention of meeting you at such short notice on a weekend, or she never realised the venue was so far away...
If all your friends are letting you down, then you need to look closely at what you are actually offering these people with your presence.
Friendship as you get older evolves, people do not feel the need to keep up with friendships they may feel they are getting little or nothing out of.
As people age they find they have other things to do with their lives, and "hanging out" goes down the priority list.

Get your anger under control, it IS extreme and inappropriate under the circumstances

Agreeing out of politeness is not an excuse. I'd have preferred a 'no' than wasting my time.

But everything you've said makes so much sense. I didn't about it from your viewpoint until now

 Thank you for your feedback and for taking the time to respond.

[Mysterio]

This sounds more like Dating than Friendship.  To me.  I don't understand flaking.  Flaking to me seems like this with me looking at the woman.  If I Doris.  Go out with Brent.  Then Brent it going to fall in love with me.  I will break his heart, because I am not into him that way.  So if I Flake.  Then all will be good.  I evaluate on looks over personality or even give some guys a chance. 

What Doris does not understand is that Flaking has this viral entity to make Brent jaded towards women in the future.  Thats more problematic, than going out with Brent in the first place.  If Brent makes a move.  All Doris has to say is that she does not feel that way and if he wants that type of romantic relationship.  He has to find another girl to do that with.  Yet Doris still likes the attention.  She does not have the desire to be physical with him.  

Thats what comes to mind with this post.  At age 50 for myself.  Unless the woman is really in my face about getting together.  I just chill.I have Women friends that I can get together with for the non romantic interactions.  Any woman that is not them.  She is a romantic prospect.  

Nothing is really to far away, unless this woman does not have a car and is having to take multiple buses to meet you.  Anything less than an hour can't be that hard to meet at.  

Edited October 19, 2021 by Mysterio

[Noproblem]

Honestly, you did the right thing by cutting her off, just be polite in public and don't interact with her outside of what the job requires!

You are not Extremist. I repeat. You are not, but people's feelings and words are not real. They lie and flake with zero regard to your feelings or what they have promised you!

But don't get angry, don't keep it in.. Just let of expectations and don't give up on everyone just because of these many bad apples. There are still good ones here and there.

 

You are not extremists, you are genuine, if a guy asks me out, I will say no thank you if I am not willing to go out.. Easy peasy. I might make up a lie on why I can't go out so I don't hurt feelings, but never promise then lie at the last minute, that's is disrespectful and rude!

Edited October 24, 2021 by Noproblem