Affair to be Expected?

[CompleteBC]

My wife and I have been married a little over 5 years and together for 10. I fear our life pre engagement and marriage has led to where we are. 
 

Shortly after starting dating we would routinely have her roommate join us when we had sex. I never had sex with her myself but my other half and her would together, almost as a visual prop for my pleasure. I had never experienced anything even close to that before so naturally it was exciting.
 

About 6 months into dating she suggested, and almost guilted me into having group sex with her friend and her husband. Her rationale being I almost owed her for the times with her now former roommate. Initially I was resistant but kept an open mind and gave it a try. That quickly evolved into us being a part of a group of 7 other couples who would get together a few times a month. Being invested in the relationship we decided to back away from the group prior to getting engaged. She remained close with a couple of the women, we got engaged, and eventually got married.

Multiple years went by without any couple interaction by us as far as I knew. Then, what I thought was by chance, we came across two of the couples at a beach resort we were staying at in May. After a full day of adulting my wife began flirting with them and by my own admission I did not fight. The next morning I woke up with enough regret but my wife wanted to meet with them again. We did on two more occasions during the week. Eventually I found out my wife knew they would be at the resort.

Last week I received a series of texts from the female half of one of the couples. She demanded to talk over a cup of coffee and I agreed. Upon meeting I could tell she was broken by something. The story was her husband had been irresponsible with their finances due to gambling and had at least for the time being put them in financial ruin. She then transitioned into my wife. She said that since May, my wife has been having sex with the men of the group, sometimes with the female halves present.

Not believing her and thinking she was just trying to get back at her husband I told her I didn’t believe her. I followed her out to her car and she pulled up several pictures of my wife with the men of the group and occasionally another woman or two. Turns out she had copied hundreds of pictures and videos from his files and was confronting not only me but another man who’s wife was an occasional participant.

Devastated, I began to blame myself for the lifestyle I allowed us to get engaged I early on, even though I put a halt to it when we got engaged. In fairness when we got back in town she asked me if I wanted to keep on getting back into it. I was an adamant no which I thought would be uniform for both of us.

My question is this. Do you guys consider this to be as serious if just 5 months ago we didn’t revert back for that short period? I mean that as in I feel like I condoned her behavior. I feel like I have a couple courses of action. The first is to tell her I know and just demand it stop. The other is to separate from her. Am I being hypocritical if I do that? My gut tells me, even though she knew and was part of it, that my behavior was no better as I took part as well. The disturbing part for me is many of the images, I looked at about 100 of them, was her with large groups of the same guys and others I didn’t know with no women in sight. Maybe it’s hypocritical but her being used by a dozen men was well outside what was acceptable when we did partake. Should I feel hypocritical?

 

[S2B]

She kept this from you…therefore you can’t trust her. 

[glows]

15 minutes ago, CompleteBC said:

Should I feel hypocritical?

You have provided reasons for not feeling hypocritical. You only have to  come to terms with potentially losing your wife if she disagrees with you as this may be a dealbreaker. What I suspect will play out is that she tries to guilt you or convince you that it's nothing and you should join in next time. 

All of this is really up to you and what is acceptable to you within a relationship. No one else can make that decision for you if you yourself condone it or accept that this is what you want. 

 

[Wiseman2]

34 minutes ago, CompleteBC said:

we came across two of the couples at a beach resort we were staying at in May. After a full day of adulting my wife began flirting with them and by my own admission I did not fight. The next morning I woke up with enough regret but my wife wanted to meet with them again. We did on two more occasions during the week. Eventually I found out my wife knew they would be at the resort.

Was it a swinger's resort?

[stillafool]

I don't think your wife is going to give this up.  If she is now sexually fulfilled by mutiple men at the same time, how do you compete with that?

[CompleteBC]

Thanks. Was not a swingers resort, actually a quiet upscale beach resort. I just don’t think that lifestyle is positive in the position we are, no knock on those that do. Tension developed at times over my being more inclined toward certain women and I just don’t want to deal with that, especially when she had her preferences and I didn’t care. 
 

I’m obviously constantly thinking about it which isn’t fun. The part that deep down is the most bothersome is I have a slice of apathy inside as well though after seeing a couple dozen guys have sex with my wife right next me as I’m with another woman. Trust? Yes it’s changed but I have a very different response now than I would have if not for the previous. 

[Veronica73]

She hid this from you. I don’t think you are a hypocrite at all. Unless you were doing similar things behind her back.

[CompleteBC]

Nothing even remotely close

[Just a Guy]

Hi Complete, apparently you and your wife are swingers whether you like it or not. Had you vigorously opposed the idea of her room mate participating in your one on one sexcapades with your then girl friend now wife you cannot authentically claim innocence or the high moral ground here. However, it is entirely up to you as to how you want to live your life hence forward. If you want to get out of this kink then you can have a talk with your wife and take a call on what you as a couple should be doing. If your wife is vehemently opposed to it as I think she will be, you can do some plain talking and let her know that while you respect her decision on how she wants to live her life, you cannot and will not be a part of it. Do some introspection and be very sure that you do not want to embrace this kink and then have the talk with your wife but be very firm in your decision then. Warm regards.

[Wiseman2]

9 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

 seeing a couple dozen guys have sex with my wife right next me as I’m with another woman. 

It seems like open relationships, orgies and this type of thing aren't for you.

Perhaps you're incompatible if you want monogamy and she wants to continue the swinging lifestyle.

[Blind-Sided]

Unfortunately... you married into an "open relationship", and are married to a woman who wants it to stay that way.  Because of that, you can't really tell her to stop.  That would be you changing the rules. But if she is lying about what she is up to... then to me... that is still cheating.  If nothing else, it puts her in a position that you can't trust her. Since it started as an open relationship... then you need to talk to her about the honesty/trust side of things.  (She didn't tell you for a reason) 

But as @Wiseman2 said... it sounds like you really aren't the kind of person who can be in an open relationship... and you should probably just consider moving on. 

[Asc1226]

You are not a hypocrite. All of the previous occurrences of swinging were discussed and agreed on by both of you. Though your wayward wife’s behavior at the resort was certainly planned out and I believe if you had refused she would have attempted joining in without you behind your back.

You should confront your WW. But be prepared. She obviously likes this lifestyle and feels she deserves to live it. Decide what you want beforehand. Monogamy? Open marriage? Swinging? Divorce?

From your post it sounds like you want monogamy. Don’t ask for it, demand it. Be prepared to walk away. You’ll  have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. No begging or pleading. Do not do the pick me dance. The prize for “winning” the pick me dance is an active cheater.

Face up to the fact that divorce is a possible outcome and see a lawyer. Knowledge is power. If you didn’t get copies of the evidence do so before confronting. Look up the 180. This is often a process, not an instant decision by the wayward. If she can’t make up her mind start withdrawing, show her what life will look like without you.

Peace

[CompleteBC]

Wow. Lots a varying angles and thought which is what I was looking for to consider. I oscillate but more times than not I find myself feeling as I had close to or the same influence as she did in this. I never anticipated the long term effects of those hookups with her and her roommate. I was simply living in the moment of something I’d never experienced as a young man in my 20’s.

 

Internally I feel @Just a Guy is saying. I just didn’t and have never been a guy for labels, at least for myself. For those couple years, which was pre family, those other couples became the priority as far as friends go and often times we missed out on other people we had established relationships with. My wife would make plans weekly and even planned a couple of group vacations. It just got to be too much.

 

Last night I texted the woman I met with. I asked her if the various groups, specifically the guys, knew I didn’t know about what was going on. It was never brought up with the exception of the occasional ask of where I was. I was inclined to reach out to a couple of the guys I haven’t had contact with but overall had good relationships with. 
 

No idea how this plays out. I feel as if my legit irritations with the way things played out and my moral high ground, which is rooted in being completely different than anything I ever thought of I’d be involved with, are my sticking points. 

[glows]

The longer you both keep going behind each others' backs contacting such and such or meeting xyz, the more complicated and painful this gets as time goes on. You don't seem ready to talk with your wife but if you are expecting this to get easier with more information, it's unlikely. 

[elaine567]

24 minutes ago, CompleteBC said:

. I was inclined to reach out to a couple of the guys I haven’t had contact with but overall had good relationships with. 
 

Why?

[CompleteBC]

@elaine567To understand the dynamics behind those meetings. Different emotions combined but the thought of some of these guys who I know going along knowing I didn’t know would have really angered me. Sounds like that’s not the case.

 

@glowsI agree to a degree. My only reason for reaching back out was to get more details which I didn’t get due to being so caught off guard initially. I have no intention of further contact with her. I see my follow-up as just that, a follow-up to round out the story. And yes you are correct. I’m not quite ready to approach my wife, at least until I have a clear plan. I’m inclined at this point to almost approach it in general terms and the conversation flow naturally and non accusatory. 

[stillafool]

Women who like to be gang banged by a bunch of men are rare to find.  Those that do usually get paid for it and the fact that your wife seems to love it is a problem.  She isn't going to want to stop nor will she.  What will happen if you decide to have kids?

[CompleteBC]

@stillafoolAs for your last question that has already happened and it’s definitely a large example of how and why time and priorities have changed. As for the gang bang thing. When we had get togethers it wasn’t uncommon for us to switch off of partners multiple times especially when it was a larger get together. Exacerbating that was my wife being the only consistent practitioner of anal sex. The multiple partner and swapping was almost assumed for her.

 

We had lots of talks about the forces which attracted her to the lifestyle, specifically her willingness as a woman to engage with multiple men. Was it a need, was it a want, was there something else? Her explanation made it clear to me the more who desired to be with her the better it made her feel. My take is it went well beyond the actual pleasure from the sec itself.

[Lotsgoingon]

The bottom line is she cheated on you.

Cheating isn't just when a member of a monogamous pairing has sex with someone else on the sly. Cheating can be an open couple where one partner violates the agreement and boundary that the couple has set up. Just because you explore swinging doesn't mean that lying and hiding is allowed. Actually the commitments and rules for a swinging couple need to be ultra clear for swinging to work and not destroy the relationship. 

You gotta wake up here. Dude, you are with a manipulator who is probably charming and charismatic and smiley and who just tramples over you with a smile on her face and a rub of your arm. In other words, you are way over your heard and out of your depth. First step is to realize that your wife lies and manipulates you. 

The issue here is not sex. The issue is you are married to someone who lives for manipulating and lying--while you yourself don't know how to say no and stand up for yourself. 

You sound like a straight arrow. How did you end up with this slick, cunning, lying conman of a woman?  You guys are totally mismatched. And you are way out of your depth. You need to find someone to talk to. Your wife is just getting started dude, and she's running circles around you. 

You've made a good start--finally!--by coming here and posting, but you need to take many more steps? Can you afford therapy? Do you have male friends? You gotta talk to someone. You need to tap the minds of multiple people because otherwise, the score her is wife 99, you 0. 

 

 

 

[CompleteBC]

@LotsgoingonSome cold hard truth in your statement. We are very opposite when it comes to sex, and very compatible and similar with just about everything else. Since day 1 I’ve been pretty amazed at how she’s able to compartmentalize the different parts of her life. Again, watching her and having her roommate join us was not only a shock but great at the time. I’d never experienced anything even close to that. And as for the other couples. I was always in traditional dating relationships. After taking the leap I enjoyed watching my wife get pleasure from sex with other guys and ultimately fed off of that openness, willingness, energy, and visual appeal from her and enjoyed sex with other women.

 

I did a lot of research before joining this site. I almost joined a swingers sight due to the subject but didn’t want to be swayed by the members. The thoughts already expressed on here have been helpful and have opened my mind. Yes we are fortunate are enough to be able to afford therapy but no I haven’t talked to any of my male friends since most are couple based. Just don’t feel comfortable enough.

[glows]

If you enjoy some aspect of this or aren't sure how you feel then take your time. While you seem hurt by your wife's actions you don't seem prompted to do anything to change your situation or the way you are living (with her, in your marriage). Maybe you are not as repulsed as you think or you are warming up to the idea of her living this double life outside of the marriage or not disclosing a lot of info to you. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Find your most open-minded male friend or look for a member of the swinging community that you really trust. Could be a man or a woman. And hey, since your wife randomly meets people behind your back for sex, surely you can meet people without telling her for good advice! 

Sit down with this person and explain your situation. They will tell you that there should be NO lying, misleading, going beyond the marriage without permission ahead time--explicit permission and on and on.

The issue is not comfort with swinging. That's the distraction--and that's just a way to justify being passive. The issue is your wife swings without telling you and without your permission ahead of time. She knows what's she's doing btw. Otherwise, she would have run this all past you. She also knows she's good at intimidating and fast-talking you when you have an objection after the fact.

Trust me: there are men and women (in fact the majority) in the swing group who have firm boundaries with each other and who don't sit passively as the other person violates those boundaries. 

You have the right to your discomfort with swinging as much as she has a right to her desire to swing. She's pursuing her desire without consulting you. That's a violation of the marriage. 

You got to start talking to people, because you need help getting clarity from others. Isolation and hiding your issue here is not your friend. You're not naturally as conniving (at least on this issue) as your wife is--and so you're going to get outmaneuvered if you rely only on your own thinking.  Conniving is not natural for you. Conniving about sex is your wife's super power. 

[CompleteBC]

@glowsThats a part of it too. I feel like I should be more upset which is why I used the term apathetic in a previous post. I looked at more of the pictures and a video than I would have but I was looking for condoms which smartly everyone was wearing. I feel the entire spectrum of emotions. My carnal side says let’s just get back into it. Fortunately that’s a small % as maturity and time has led me to where I am today. I’m not ok with her going behind my back either.
 

I just don’t know how low scale she would or could keep things. I’m beginning to realize there’s no 100% correct answer.  It changes but right now I feel like I want to confront her to not only let her know that I know, but also to move on to whatever step is next. We have a successful business together, a family, and so much else in common. I feel like she should start therapy first almost as it’s fair to say she has a sexual dysfunction or illness. By very definition her actions have affected day to day life. 

I’m also considering my own thoughts or drive. I just don’t have the same drive as I used to and am pretty underwhelmed by the prospect of sex with other women at this point. Life’s just way too busy and my wife is enough for me. I admit I’m more resistant to the idea out of selfishly having more than enough. Obviously not the case for my wife. Bottom line is I just need to talk to her. 

[CompleteBC]

@LotsgoingonFinding that male friend to talk to is a tough haul for me right now as far as talking. We had boundaries already set by others that we just went along with so yes I know they are there. During my conversation with the woman we did talk a bit about my and our withdrawal from the group very briefly. She referenced her belief that my justification was not valid. Like you she referenced the rules I needed to lay down which admittedly I never have. I always saw those rules of others as dealing directly with sex. Quite frankly all I did was b**** and moan when I thought we were too committed to time with the group. Outside of the deceit which is it’s own issue in and of itself, maybe with firmer rules, specifically with time and attention,  I’d be more open to it. In the past I felt obligated even though we did share commonalities outside of the sex. Sometimes it was downright brutal with my propensity for solitude and relaxation. I admit though that when the time was right it was a lot of fun.

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

Her explanation made it clear to me the more who desired to be with her the better it made her feel. My take is it went well beyond the actual pleasure from the sec itself.

Yes a lot of women really get off on and yearn for a lot of male attention.  I guess your wife is one of those but will take it to the extreme.