Affair to be Expected?

[HappilyMarried]

Sorry for what has happened behind your back @CompleteBCa question how was she meeting up with this whole group of men and sometimes women without you knowing? So I guess besides not telling you about this she also has lied to you multiple times about her whereabouts or what she was doing when you were not around. Also, has all of this happened since the trip to the resort in May or was she meeting with these men before that? DO you know how many different times this has happened? Best of luck! Have you talked to her yet? I would be getting checked as well for STD's as well.

[glows]

1 hour ago, CompleteBC said:

@glowsThats a part of it too. I feel like I should be more upset which is why I used the term apathetic in a previous post. I looked at more of the pictures and a video than I would have but I was looking for condoms which smartly everyone was wearing. I feel the entire spectrum of emotions. My carnal side says let’s just get back into it. Fortunately that’s a small % as maturity and time has led me to where I am today. I’m not ok with her going behind my back either.
 

I just don’t know how low scale she would or could keep things. I’m beginning to realize there’s no 100% correct answer.  It changes but right now I feel like I want to confront her to not only let her know that I know, but also to move on to whatever step is next. We have a successful business together, a family, and so much else in common. I feel like she should start therapy first almost as it’s fair to say she has a sexual dysfunction or illness. By very definition her actions have affected day to day life. 

I’m also considering my own thoughts or drive. I just don’t have the same drive as I used to and am pretty underwhelmed by the prospect of sex with other women at this point. Life’s just way too busy and my wife is enough for me. I admit I’m more resistant to the idea out of selfishly having more than enough. Obviously not the case for my wife. Bottom line is I just need to talk to her. 

You may be more rational than impulsive.   I’d be concerned about apathy or apathetic in this scenario and this would be a major indication to me that something’s wrong or I’m over stressed or depressed in a very unstable situation.

I think your earlier suggestion to mention to her that you’re aware without being confrontational is better than coming at this in a heated way. You can mention therapy but it might make no difference. This is who she is and she has no issue living this lifestyle or going behind your back. Her agreeing to go to therapy would also be her admitting that what she’s doing is wrong or that it needs to be corrected. 

Try it for the sake of your marriage but don’t hold your breath too long. I really doubt she sees anything wrong with what she’s doing if she’s pressured you or guilted you in the past to join her. This is her, her lifestyle, her choices. And what you are is outside of that, dissimilar. 

If you have a shared business or shared assets the only third party advice I’d seek is that of a lawyer in private. The he said/she said with others wouldn’t help or change the situation.

[AngryGromit]

4 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

The bottom line is she cheated on you.

Cheating isn't just when a member of a monogamous pairing has sex with someone else on the sly. Cheating can be an open couple where one partner violates the agreement and boundary that the couple has set up. Just because you explore swinging doesn't mean that lying and hiding is allowed. Actually the commitments and rules for a swinging couple need to be ultra clear for swinging to work and not destroy the relationship. 

I agree, if a couple is going to swing, they need to be on the same page.  If she asked you if you were OK with her attending a gang bang and you said ok, that be one thing, but to not ask you and do it.  How can you trust her? And it not just about sex, what if she's racking up mountains of debt and hiding it?  Cashing in your 401k to support her spending habit. Or drugs. She could destroy your future with her irresponsibility, long after your divorced.  It's obvious she's focused on her needs, what you want isn't on her radar. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Totally agree @AngryGromit: the issue here is betrayal and trust. This woman has violated any right to trust. The OP though is still having trouble asserting himself and standing up for some basic sanity.

If she's hiding sex with lots of men, she's got to be hiding other stuff. 

[Buffer]

I must have missed it but what did your WW say when you asked the who, why and her justification as to the cheating?

one day at a time. 

[mark clemson]

So to summarize your bi wife is into threesomes, swinging, and group sex and now has gone full porn star (and beyond actually) on you without telling you in advance, correct??

If yes, agree with much of what has been said above.

12 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

No idea how this plays out.

There are only so many likely scenarios:

- Option (A) - you do nothing. If so, this continues and you continue to feel very bad about it.

- Option (B) - you discuss this with her, and she says she wants to continue. You must then decide if:

        - You can live with that (and thus she does it openly and/or with your participation), or

        - You can't live with that and need to give her an ultimatum that it stop and/or separate

        - Possibly, she might accept a toned down version of this, such as returning to more regular swinging

        - Possibly she might decide to end things with you, so she can continue this lifestyle;  think that's a low chance, but one never knows

- Option (C) - you discuss with her and she agrees to stop (very unlikely IMO but theoretically possible).  IF this happens I think you'll be in a position of needing to keep a strong eye on her for essentially the rest of your lives together.

- Option (D) - you unilaterally decide you can't deal with her cheating and separate

Not sure what to "advise" but from what you're writing it doesn't really sound like you are comfortable with this continuing even if it were done openly, at least not at this "level of intensity". She probably has sensed this which is why she went behind your back.  GL, it's definitely not an easy situation to be in.

Keep in mind that people can have relative hyper- and hypo-sexual periods during their lives. So it's possible she'll tone down again. Whether that will happen and how long it might take (IF it happens at all) are open questions that only time, possibly a LOT of time, would answer.

Edited October 24, 2021 by mark clemson

[CompleteBC]

Maybe the wrong time to get back into the conversation but I’m 3/4 in the wrapper and feeling just as honest as ever. I’ll start with the first thing that stuck out to me as being without question. Monthly we meet with our attorney and accountant. I can assure you we are in a stable track as far as business goes. Lots of checks and balances. Not because we do t trust each other but instead because we steer clear of issues with the irs. 
 

All the other subject matter is up for debate. I’ll say I truly appreciate the input from everyone. I’m in a box right now and so clouded in thought. I want true human opinion at this point. Not a therapist, not a yes man, not societal norms, but real human input. I’ve gotten that and I can’t say how appreciative I am if it.

As I lay here tonight I feel a both a rush of emotions and a deep desire to find sanity in what for me is an uncertain situation. I feel selfish. Overall I’m far better off than most I know. I love and adore my family, I have a thriving business, and I feel good about where things are as a whole. I love my wife and all her faults and scars. Yet part of me just wishes things were at least in part different.

I feel a large part of what has happened was my doing. Yes she’s done what she’s done and that’s her decision. Ultimately I could have put a halt to it early on. Instead I watched her have sex with another woman. I stood in front of both of them as they blew me and made out with each other. It was that first time I knew my wife was different than anyone mine else I’d been with. 
 

We weren’t married, not even close to engaged. I was at a “get together” with people I knew were into something I had never been involved with. I watched as she was fingered by a guy as she kissed two other men and was felt up on. All while I had the wife of one of those men giving me a blowjob. I liked it and so did she. I came that first time on that wife’s stomach as I watched my wife with four other men. Rules aside, the s*** we got caught up in was beyond what I’d ever imagined. I liked to occasionally f*** other women and she loved being f***ed by other men besides me.

For two years I compartmentalized our behavior. Her thirst was larger than mine but then again it was a good time. Our third or fourth time in I spent Friday through Sunday f***ing, going to breakfast, going to dinner, sleeping over, and f***ing some more till it got annoying. I love sex. I love my wife who wasn’t yet my wife at that time. But I lived variety in life as well. I loved reading books, watching sports, and otherwise just being solitary at times. I fought j thermally for those two years. Before we engaged I had a friend who asked me how it’s been and if I was ready for one piece of ass for the rest of my life. I never told him his things had been and just laughed it off.

Tonight I had great sex with my wife. Prior to sex she put on a mesh outfit she bought and asked me to film her as she toyed and played with herself. As I watched her I realized I saw photos and videos of her being used by  dozens of men, all without my knowing. I thought to myself, what the f*** am I doing? I met a girl I fell for quick. We had numerous threesomes. We had hour after of sex with others in front of each other. We got engaged, got married, and on a wym/unknown arrangement began f***ing other people just 5 months ago. Somehow I’m supposed to be shocked or surprised tfat dukes weren’t followed or things didn’t go as planned.

As we f***ed tonight I asked her what she wanted with her not knowing I knew what I knew. She said she wanted to get gangbanged and wanted to get treated like a whore. I went on to f*** her but realized yes, I will never truly be enough sexually. I don’t blame her. I’ve set all this up and I’ve gone along with a life I never even knew existed. 
 

What happens from here I don’t know. I’ve had endless comments in this and I appreciate all of them. The last thing I wanted to hear, and figured I would get was something to the effect of how stupid I was for complaining. Again I can’t thank you everyone enough as one piece of good advice would have been a step, much less all that’s done to this point. 

[Just a Guy]

Hi Complete, having read further, the comments made by others to your posts and your responses to them, I get the feeling that you are in a space where you want to let sleeping dogs lie. Fact is, it is your life and you are entitled to live it whichever way you want. Your last post seems to me to indicate that you have been carrying out a mental evaluation of your life situation, in the process weighing up the pros and cons of the various factors in your life to try and make sense of whether you ate happy with things as they are, or, whether the actions of your wife impact your sensibilities to the extent that you need to sit up and take proactive action to distance yourself from them.

For this purpose you will have to introspect and dig deep within yourself to ascertain whether her actions gel with your core beliefs or whether they are completely antagonistic toward them. In simple terms you have to decide whether you want to live the rest of your life being married to a whore or do you want out of this situation and return to a sane world which is predictable according to your core beliefs! Your wife is probably a nymphomaniac or possibly a sex addict and she will not be amenable to normal advice or suggestions to tone down her behaviour. She needs serious counselling/ psychiatric treatment to be able to overcome her addiction/ great desire for sex. If she truly loves you and is committed to your marriage she should willingly undergo this treatment. If not then her lobe for you is not strong enough for her to overcome her addiction. I would think that you may benefit from visiting alternative life choices sites such as Hotwife forums where you can ask for advice on how to deal with your situation. The folk there can be very helpful and sympathetic to your kind of a situation and will have a lot of very pertinent advice to offer you. For the rest you will have to introspect till you arrive at some conclusion on your situation. Fact is you and your wife are definately compatible, sexually. You have to deal with that fact. Warm wishes.

[Lotsgoingon]

BC, you have to start tellling people what is going on. 

Hearing from others is what helps most of us get some backbone in relationship. When we're young, lots of us will do anything, all kinds of foolish stuff in a relationship. We don't know "what's normal" and don't know or trust that we know what's crazy. 

But having friends weigh in--even if they're laughing and calling us out, maybe especially when they're calling us out--is so helpful. You missed that opportunity. Since you don't have strong boundaries or clarity, what you did was basically put yourself in a cultlike atmosphere. You just easily went along with her. And since your wife seems to be otherwise high functioning, you kept justifying (and that logic makes sense as well). 

I'm sorry you missed this fresh air air and insight from the outside world. 

 

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

I liked to occasionally f*** other women and she loved being f***ed by other men besides me.

This isn't an affair. It's orgies, swinging etc. If you like the lifestyle, which it appears you do, you may as well stay with her because it could be difficult to find this arrangement again.

[stillafool]

22 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

Life’s just way too busy and my wife is enough for me. 

But you aren't enough for her and sadly as time goes on people age and have age related problems like ED; what will happen then and how will you feel?  

I don't think she will stop wanting multiples even as she ages.  I guess what will stop her is as she ages men will not show her the desire she so craves.

Edited October 24, 2021 by stillafool

[Just a Guy]

Correction to my last post, last couple of lines. I meant incompatible and not compatible. It changes the meaning completely. Sorry!

[CompleteBC]

Was a little reluctant to read the responses due to my condition during my post. Once a month I accompany her to the spa and get a massage while she runs the gamut of female services. I think I may just make the approach after she gets out and we have an early dinner. I’m not going to plan, just going to let the conversation flow. 

[HappilyMarried]

3 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

Was a little reluctant to read the responses due to my condition during my post. Once a month I accompany her to the spa and get a massage while she runs the gamut of female services. I think I may just make the approach after she gets out and we have an early dinner. I’m not going to plan, just going to let the conversation flow. 

Best of luck @CompleteBC! I think you are doing the right thing to confront and get it all out in the open and let her know how you feel about it and how it has hurt that she has done this behind your back to you and your marriage. If you do not want it be honest and tell her how you feel and if she says she does not or will not stop having sex with multiple men then I guess you will have to decide if you want to deal with or can deal with it or go your separate ways.  Just remember you must do what is best for you. Think about it for the past few months (years) your wife has done exactly what she has wanted this entire time with no thoughts of how it would affect or hurt you. It was all about her now you need to man up tell her how you feel and what you need if she can't or won't then you will know upfront and can decide what you want to do. Let us know how it goes.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, CompleteBC said:

. I’m not going to plan, just going to let the conversation flow. 

But this is a plan. What exactly do you want? Monogamy? An open relationship? Swinging? Cuckolding? Occasional sex with other women?

Without crystal clear communication regarding what's bothering you, it's just going to continue on the same trajectory with regard to the swinging and orgies.

Not making a plan means you don't actually know what you want because you go on and on about how you want random group sex, but her extremeness sort of gets to you.

No plan means you want your cake and eat it too, but actually can't handle the whole scenario.

 

[elaine567]

On 10/23/2021 at 6:59 PM, CompleteBC said:

I feel like she should start therapy first almost as it’s fair to say she has a sexual dysfunction or illness.

My guess would be that it likely arose from child hood sexual abuse.

Sexual promiscuity  wrongly equated with self worth, being wanted by and desirable to multiple men/women makes her feel good and if she was indeed abused  may take away the mental pain....

[AngryGromit]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:32 AM, CompleteBC said:

I liked to occasionally f*** other women and she loved being f***ed by other men besides me.

Personally I think that's really hot, I'm kinda envious of you in that regard, but I don't even think I could get over the gang bang thing. Even if every guy she has sex in every gang bang wears protection, condoms are not 100% effective all the time, it's like 98%. I guess if it was the same group of men every time, and everyone only has sex within the group, risks would be minimal, but you said so yourself, you seen men with her you didn't know.  The law of average says sooner or later she's going to get something and pass it on to you, While AiD's / HIV isn't a death sentence it once was, you don't want it. it averages 36k a year for treatment and costs are only going up.  You might think 36k is peanuts, not a problem, but there are a lot of unpleasant side effects of taking so many drugs as well.    

[AngryGromit]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

My guess would be that it likely arose from child hood sexual abuse.

Sexual promiscuity  wrongly equated with self worth, being wanted by and desirable to multiple men/women makes her feel good and if she was indeed abused  may take away the mental pain....

I don't think everyone that operates outside the "norm" is damaged in some way, some people have higher sex drives than others. 

[CompleteBC]

I did speak with her extensively last night. Let me address the no plan as I should have articulated it different. My plan was speak to her, let her know I had knowledge of what occurred the last 6 months or so, and to put the ball in her court as far as explanation regardless of its validity. That is in itself a plan, what I should have stated was I had no lineup of items I was going to assert and address other than what was stated above. Open ended is what I would call it. 
 

I started by telling her calmly that I knew and even went so far as to tell her who told me. I told her to collect her thoughts prior to explaining and to keep this an even keel, adult conversation where only complete truth would work. Almost immediately she said “I have no excuse and I screwed up”. That was followed by “am I going to lose you”? 
 

Right after she told me to ask her anything and that she’d be direct and honest although she understands if I didn’t believe her. I first asked her when the last time was. She was adamant it was back in September. I then asked her why she allegedly stopped it. 
 

She was invited to play in a club tennis tournament. I knew about the tournament but did not know it was one of the women we saw on the trip that invited her. She said she drank too much and I said it wasn’t an excuse. She agreed but ultimately it put her guard way down. I asked how being with one couple turned into what I saw in some of the pictures. She saw a couple of people from the couples we hung out with years ago. Along with those couples were many of their friends including guys that were single and others who were well aware of what those couples lifestyle was. All while I was out of town and away from my family for our business for almost two full weeks.

She rambled on and on and she was beating around the bush. I was getting  impatient and asked her how this event allegedly ended her involvement again. Naturally she said it came up several times with the strangers of how the others knew my wife. Our past came out to the others and it went all downhill from there. 
 

She started to tear up. Internally I about lost it again as I demanded an answer to my question. She said a bunch of them left the banquet and the girls rode in golf carts with the guys as they played a few holes. While riding with a divorced guy she met she started giving him a blowjob. Beyond the obvious issue I was boggled by how it happened on an open golf course. To show where her head can be she explained it was dusk and she wasn’t worried about people from houses seeing her. She was crying and told me she had got on top of him and had sex with him. I’m no genius but I’ve played in tennis tournaments and played golf and I’ve never dragged condoms around with me. Sure enough he didn’t use a condom and she said she had no idea until he asked her where to finish. While having sex with him some of the others got out of their carts and took videos of them. She got off to all of it and went along with the husband of our old partners inviting her back to their house. To make it even better she admitted to telling the guy she had sex with and the others to invite any and everyone who would want to have sex with her. 
 

She continued to drink before and after getting to the house. She detailed what went on the next couple hours but I’m just not going to get into it. That first bit of detail is more than enough. To summarize she has sex with the guy above, had sex with some of the couples we’d previously partnered up with, and went off to a separate room away from the party and had sex with random guys who weren’t a part of the couple group. To make matters worse she doesn’t know if the guys outside of the couples used condoms but doesn’t think they did. I told her I wanted no more details.

She said she was scared but more so pissed at herself and embarrassed. I asked her to explain each. She said she was pissed because what she did wasn’t right for me, her or us and that she lost control. She was scared she was going to get pregnant or get a disease. And embarrassed because she acted like whore. 
 

I really didn’t have much to say after. This went well beyond what I even thought the situation was. I asked and she said the few other times were in a group setting made up mostly of people we’d previously partnered with. I told her I’d need some major time to think and went into damage control mode. My demands were multi fold. First was any issues would be kept from our family and that we could not let our family or business life suffer as it would only complicate things and not be fair given what she’d done. My other was she attend counseling not only for me but most of all for herself. I’m in major compartmentalize mode. Im inclined to leave the relationship about 95% at this time. I just need to take a step back at this time to process. 
 

I asked her if she wanted or more accurately needed to swing in order to be fulfilled. She said she thinks she does but would sacrifice it if it meant a life as it was with us. I replied I couldn’t trust her again if we weren’t in that lifestyle. 
 

As for her background relative to her behavior. Yes there’s a background there I wasn’t made aware of until about a year after we got married. I won’t go into detail as that’s hers to work through and share with who she chooses.

 

[DKT3]

The picture I get reading your story is you have a wife who has systematically pressed your boundaries, each time you've moved the line a little farther away from your core values and the kind of marriage you wanted.

Now she's pushed too far and you're stuck. If you say you want a monogamous marriage moving forward she will grow to resent you and will likely cheat on you again.  If you allow it to continue she will continue to push your boundaries as she has so far.

Sometimes people are just not meant to be. Once you recognize that you have two options,  Sunk Cost Fallacy, you continue to invest in a relationship that doesn't work for you. OR Remove yourself from it and search for one closer to your core values. There is no compromise that will work here, not for you at least.

[HappilyMarried]

23 minutes ago, CompleteBC said:

To make it even better she admitted to telling the guy she had sex with and the others to invite any and everyone who would want to have sex with her. 

Of everything she said and how bad she supposedly felt. A couple of things:1) She didn't feel bad enough or care enough for to come to you about it. 2) She didn't feel bad enough or care enough about you and your marriage to not continue to do it for a number of months.

That statement above cannot be explained away in sense or excuses to say and do that. In my opinion she did that and said that because she wanted that to happen and as she said she invited it to happen she never gave you or your marriage any thought whatsoever she wanted it bad and she made sure it happened. In your post you didn't mention it but I would guess out of all of the women there she is the only one that acted out that bad and that way. I also would ask the other times that she claims that it was just mainly with couples you both had been with before. I would ask if she tried to get her friends to have the single guys back again, or if they were there again would she had done those things again?

I hate you are going through this @CompleteBC and while I personally don't agree with your lifestyle that you and your wife had partaken in the past it does not give her the right to do what she did to you and your marriage. I think she knows that and that is why she did not say anything and I really think the only reason she stopped was she was afraid she was going to get caught or she has had either a pregnancy or STD scare or both. I personally would ask her this specifically and ask if she has been tested she did these things and then came home and had sex with you. Think about that as well.

Finally, you have some serious thinking and decisions to make. I personally think no matter what she is saying know she will do this again and I even think even if you were to forgive everything and go back into the swinging lifestyle she is still going to do things like this behind your back and more than you want to deal with. Do you really want to spend the rest of your marriage always worrying when you go away and feel like you have to police her from now on. I agree with you that is worse than I even thought it could be and based on other similar stories on her about being unfaithful there is usually more than they say happened. I know that is probably the last thing you want to think about. Best of luck!

[CompleteBC]

Humility and good sense have seemed to pass her by. She’s adamant I’ve heard everything. Not so sure it could get worse or be worse so I believe her on that as there’s nothing to hold back. I think there’s lots in play here. Although just a weekend drinker, she goes to heavy when she does. I think she has a problem. I think she’s always had an addiction to not only sex, but the more extreme end of it as well. How or if that can be fixed I don’t know. Nor do I know how much the experience she had before affected her.

 

I don’t want to say all the reasons I fell for her so fast. She did warn me though. That first date night ended in sex I’d never had before. She’d ask me why I’m with a girl like her. She told me “I’m into some stuff that most guys can’t handle”. I should have listened or at the very least accepted it moving forward. I love her and it’s tough, but yet it’s not the end of the world at the same time. 
 

She asked me before dinner why I let her get us into having sex with other people. Not accusatory just that she wished I would have stayed resistant. I don’t what her fits of honesty are being driven by. I told her I enjoyed it too. It drives her so much that after all this she’s asking me to try it again. I just do t get it, wouldn’t be able to say that if I were her.

[DKT3]

I honestly believe you're missing the major issues here. RESPECT, or lack of.

She commented that she was worried about being pregnant or picking up an STD, but not about how it would affect you.  It never dawned on her to get out in front of it and confess,  having done this so publicly and in front of people you knew.  While worried about having picked up an STD im sure she didn't avoid sex with you or insist you use protection.  You have to see just how unconcerned she was about you. 

Now, once caught she gets concerned that you will leave her, not so much about how her actions made you feel. 

Her behavior both during and after the events are somewhat narcissistic, extremely selfish and shortsighted.  Get what she wants and to hell with what's comes after.

You need to ask alot of questions,  and maybe start putting both your emotional and physical safety and health first.

[CompleteBC]

@DKT3I disagree with you. Im looking at this in its totality because, as I mentioned earlier, three more in play than just a relationship with a man and woman. I have zero acceptance of her actions. I’m beyond inclined to think at this point it’s not going to work. Quite honestly I most likely wouldn’t have created an initial post if I knew she had gone on what was seemingly a random sex spree with unknown men beyond what she and we had experienced. I’m kicking thoughts and ideas here because I’ve avoided talking to those I know for various reasons. I can see the validity of points that it may have helped along the way if I had. About the only legitimate reason for me attending therapy with her is to have a breathing human in front of me to listen and talk some sense. Fortunately this has been therapeutic and I have gotten advice I not only maybe didn’t consider but also some I didn’t emphasize enough. She cheated and put herself above me and all we have. I agree with that. I’m just coming to terms with any of that walkway I laid, no matter how small it was, to get there. I’m not totally blameless but I do know I’d never and have never done anything to accelerate us to an end.

[DKT3]

Be careful.  Its common among betrayed spouses to take ownership of their partners act(s) of betrayal. 

By doing so, it give you a sense of control. If I'm better then they will be better. 

The behavior you call a random sex spree, is really a continuation of behavior you've described throughout.  

The great thing (or not so great, depending on your perspective) about this site is the hypersensitive attention to what we call wayward behavior.  We've been through alot, seen alot heard alot and miss very little. 

When you're inside you can't really see the whole picture.  Sometimes with just a very small piece of the puzzle those outside have a better veiw. 

Her total disregard for you is undeniable,  no matter the excuses you make. Her actions are independent of any of yours.  It will take you a while but you will get this better in time. 

I honestly believe you've been asking the wrong questions, too focused on the acts and not enough focus on how she allowed herself to do this, her mindset, her ability to risk your physical health and emotional well-being.  In time those will be the things that rob you of sleep and peace.