It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

2 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

May I ask why?

You seem to struggle a lot with communicating clearly and directly, including answering quite simple questions on this board. It would be easier to understand the real story and thus give you useful feedback if you responded without trying to be coy. 

 

I will try my best here but there are two factors: 1) personality (born with it) and 2) why it has to be so serious?? We are not solving a legal case here just chatting over a (complete stranger's) story

Onto the other posts above (I am going by phrases that has been used, don't want to write a novel):

- strange and terrifying forces are metaphor obviously, but lets not multiply her sons:D - - the plain version: there are people in her family that are prone to committing hate crimes and he's worried about that

- feminine objects - no I don't live my tampons in his pockets - - for clarity things as benign as face mask with make up stains on it is a pretty obvious sign of another female

- spending every evening apart on their end - - in my opinion that's a huge red flag in any relationship, would you disagree outside of affair context? And add to it not attending family events with each other and having zero overlap of social circles

-his age - - I don't know where the idea stemmed for - he is not magically going to change when he turns 50, people evolve and improve at any age, that's on him not me anyway

-me being much younger and more attractive - although it is true, that's not even 1% of what attracts him to me. That's superficial stuff. I have a lot more to offer.

-disgusting things we do together - like what? Hiking, volunteering, gathering with family, grocery shopping? Oh poor me I knew you meant sex but I'm being coy. No I am not. Sex is not the glue that keeps us together, it is only a small part of life.

-Do they live together? I have no idea, I guess they do. Or maybe not. Let's put it this way - there are more than one units in the house.

-Is it residency marriage - nope

-Why don't I tell her directly? Um because is none of my business. I am not cheating on anyone, if I was - i would have been the one leading the conversation.

[TamBuktu]

And on the bright side: talk number 2 today, within a week. I reminded him of our conversation, he said he did some and still some more to do. I guess the pieces of the puzzle will fall together, I am still keeping it a bit vague with him but I am very encouraged he is not defiant or dismissive. A huge progress in my book, despite how small the step might look from the side.

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I am very encouraged he is not defiant or dismissive.

He can't afford to be defiant or dismissive if he wants to keep things pleasant with you.
He needs to keep you sweet.

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

He can't afford to be defiant or dismissive if he wants to keep things pleasant with you.
He needs to keep you sweet.

And you think he is playing here?

What makes you think he isn't genuine. 

I am biting my tongue here to add few more things about myself but I'm as far from a sweet helpless girl as one can get, if that's what he was after - wrong choice lol. But he knows me anyway.

[RebeccaR]

35 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

for clarity things as benign as face mask with make up stains on it is a pretty obvious sign of another female

Is she supposed to be going through his pockets? He’s a grown man, I assume she’s not taking care of his laundry. And I assume she’s not going through his car either. These are mature adults. I don’t check my spouse’s pockets or his car, period.

[RebeccaR]

39 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

there are people in her family that are prone to committing hate crimes and he's worried about that

Just a clarification, hate crime is the wrong term here. This term usually refers to racial crimes or crimes based on sexual orientation status.

[RebeccaR]

Once again, I highly suggest you read PhoenixRising’s thread (previously username  LilKatKat). There are many similarities.

[RebeccaR]

16 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

What makes you think he isn't genuine. 

The fact he hasn’t made a move to make your relationship legitimate after 3 years makes us suspect he doesn’t have your best interests at heart. I’m sure he sincerely cares about you and adores your company, but we suspect he’s not interested in getting divorced and starting over as a husband of a young wife, and a father. That’s why his feeble efforts to placate you that he’s “doing something” don’t seem genuine. If his goal is divorce, what’s the point of waiting any longer? Unless, as I suggested before, he’s waiting for widowhood so he can avoid the whole conversation. More likely he’s just waiting for you to drop the subject and go back to providing pleasant, undemanding companionship.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Is she supposed to be going through his pockets? He’s a grown man, I assume she’s not taking care of his laundry. And I assume she’s not going through his car either. These are mature adults. I don’t check my spouse’s pockets or his car, period.

I'd agree with you for one off event. For something going on for years - not to notice anything can happen only if the person is intentionally "blind" but again, for the sake of the discussion lets use a simple model: - she knows nothing

If that's the case and if I were him, I probably won't disclose anything specific before ending it. That will make for less drama for us and for her anyway.
 

[TamBuktu]

12 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Just a clarification, hate crime is the wrong term here. This term usually refers to racial crimes or crimes based on sexual orientation status.

Yes it's the right term. The above has a lot to do with it but please let's not steer the conversation in that direction

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

The fact he hasn’t made a move to make your relationship legitimate after 3 years makes us suspect he doesn’t have your best interests at heart. I’m sure he sincerely cares about you and adores your company, but we suspect he’s not interested in getting divorced and starting over as a husband of a young wife, and a father. That’s why his feeble efforts to placate you that he’s “doing something” don’t seem genuine. If his goal is divorce, what’s the point of waiting any longer? Unless, as I suggested before, he’s waiting for widowhood so he can avoid the whole conversation. More likely he’s just waiting for you to drop the subject and go back to providing pleasant, undemanding companionship.

Got you. That will be interesting to see, I am curious too. Dropping conversations is not a strong point of mine and he knows it lol.

[TamBuktu]

25 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Once again, I highly suggest you read PhoenixRising’s thread (previously username  LilKatKat). There are many similarities.

I started reading her content, few glaring red flags pop from post N1 - her story started as rebounding (reduces success chance by default), different age range (goals), live-in kids involved, complains about spouse. I am lucky (happy) we don't have any of these factors, otherwise I wouldn't even considered.. Yet her story is interesting so I'll keep reading:)

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I will try my best here but there are two factors: 1) personality (born with it) and 2) why it has to be so serious??

It has nothing to do with being serious, OP.

Playing word games makes it difficult to understand what the story is. When you try to skate around the facts and obfuscate, we can't offer you constructive feedback because we don't know what exactly the issues are. 

It serves no purpose to hint that he has cheated before, get upset when people pick up on that, and then backtrack and say it was just a little joke and this evening companion was a man. How does that sort of "play on words" help you? 

It winds up looking as though you change the details when you don't get the advice you hope to hear. 

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

 two factors: 1) personality (born with it) and 2) why it has to be so serious?

- there are more than one units in the house.

My take was english is not your primary language and whatever translation software you're using can make things sound odd and cumbersome as far as grammar and idioms. Is this correct in your case?

Back to your situation with him and your questions. Is he the maintenance man in buildings she owns? Is this why it's unclear if they live together? 

Have you ever been to his home?

[elaine567]

49 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Have you ever been to his home?

On 10/31/2021 at 12:46 PM, TamBuktu said:

i have picked up things from his apartment but haven't been in..

 

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

It serves no purpose to hint that he has cheated before, get upset when people pick up on that, and then backtrack and say it was just a little joke and this evening companion was a man. How does that sort of "play on words" help you? 

Are we frustrating you so much that you decided to have a little fun with the people who have given their time to try and offer you advice? If so, perhaps this thread has run its course… We have discussed the situation, you have decided that you intend to play this out… what purpose does it serve to mislead the posters here? I will wish you well, I’m out.

[TamBuktu]

Yeah this is getting futile but anyway:
NO I've never used a translation device or software
NO he is not the maintenance man although of course he maintains HIS houses like I do mine
YES i have been in his home but in the common areas not the units  so NO, I haven't been in the one of three possible units where she lives. 
On the door outside is only his name written. She uses a separate mailbox elsewhere too, God knows why.

I don't know what is frustrating - i made it abundantly clear if I disclose full details especially employment etc I am risking our privacy. But I already disclosed so much, just not using searchable words.

At this point I have my take aways 1) to be more direct with him and 2) stand my ground (clearly expecting some resistance) and 3) learn more about her and 4) ensure he's aligned with the goals to be full-time husband&dad in the near future (by near I am giving a wiggle room but not 3 more years).

Only advise I need is how to pace and approach the conversations.

[ExpatInItaly]

13 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I don't know what is frustrating - i made it abundantly clear if I disclose full details

That's not what I was refering to, though. And I don't think the vast majority are asking for full disclosure. Just honest facts. 

Not suggesting he's had another OW before you and then °no, haha, it was a man, what's wrong with you guys!" 

It makes no sense to mislead people who are trying to offer you some help. It simply makes it hard to take you seriously, which is to your own detriment. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[elaine567]

My advice would be to take a direct approach, lay all your cards on the table and ask him what he thinks.
Marriage and  kids is your goal, nothing else and you don't want to waste any time.

I believe he is capable of stringing you along for months, even years, so you need to be decisive and state your case, so there is no ambiguity on your part.
If you hesitate or are not clear as crystal, he will use that against you "but you never said that... I thought you meant..."

[Pumpernickel]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

My advice would be to take a direct approach, lay all your cards on the table and ask him what he thinks.

That would be the logical thing to do, but I am afraid the OP is too vague of  a person to do that. She's been coasting along for years in this situation, and seems quite content. Maybe she doesn't know what she really wants, hence the hesitating.

[TamBuktu]

13 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That's not what I was refering to, though. And I don't think the vast majority are asking for full disclosure. Just honest facts. 

Not suggesting he's had another OW before you and then °no, haha, it was a man, what's wrong with you guys!" 

It makes no sense to mislead people who are trying to offer you some help. It simply makes it hard to take you seriously, which is to your own detriment. 

Ok understood.

Maybe i was hit the wrong way a bit on the suggestion that he had another relationship when he was out in the evenings before.. he is very much not that type, although I see why people are suspicious. Ours is once in a lifetime thing per his words (and yes he can be untruthful, I am choosing to take him for his word though and stand by it)

[RebeccaR]

Just now, Pumpernickel said:

That would be the logical thing to do, but I am afraid the OP is too vague of  a person to do that. She's been coasting along for years in this situation, and seems quite content. Maybe she doesn't know what she really wants, hence the hesitating.

I disagree. Despite her protestations OP has clearly banked her entire future on this man, figuratively and literally. She has (unfortunately) convinced herself she can never establish a connection with a different man, this married man is her soulmate. Please realize Tam that there is life beyond this one man who hasn’t shown any inclination to leave his marriage.

and you haven’t answered, whose decision was it for you to make him beneficiary of your life savings?

[TamBuktu]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

My advice would be to take a direct approach, lay all your cards on the table and ask him what he thinks.
Marriage and  kids is your goal, nothing else and you don't want to waste any time.

I believe he is capable of stringing you along for months, even years, so you need to be decisive and state your case, so there is no ambiguity on your part.
If you hesitate or are not clear as crystal, he will use that against you "but you never said that... I thought you meant..."

Yes, I am afraid that's the only option and it is so much not my personality, I am struggling hard.

Would it make sense laying it all out but in small chunks? Last week I was the closest I have even been to laying it all out and literally gave me physical side effects, I have never done this with anyone else in my life, not at work, not at past relationships, not at my birth family. It just stinks.. 

[RebeccaR]

Once in a lifetime? That’s romance talk. You know what would be really romantic? “Tam I told my wife I want a divorce - I want a legitimate relationship now while we’re both young enough to raise a family together”

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

That would be the logical thing to do, but I am afraid the OP is too vague of  a person to do that. She's been coasting along for years in this situation, and seems quite content. Maybe she doesn't know what she really wants, hence the hesitating.

I was very hesitant initially, yes. Only in the past year or so I had a "mind shift".. I think the main issue is I have never done it with anyone else (being direct on topics like marriage, family etc, or any other important topic if that matters). I generally get things done myself and here I need his input.