Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 22 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: If this is true (and ignoring the “adult” remark which is just sad), maybe he has already made the hard decision and has decided to stay put? I was referring to "initiating divorce" decision. Staying put is an easy decision since nothing is changing. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Never before he had to initiate getting in or out of relationships, perhaps except initiating ours (although he insists I started it lol). So what is your plan to have a life with him? Do you plan to keep on as you're going until his wife dies, moves out or leaves him? Question: When you were living with your roommate did you have a guy you were head over heels in love with that wanted you to leave and be with him? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 Just now, stillafool said: So what is your plan to have a life with him? Do you plan to keep on as you're going until his wife dies, moves out or leaves him? Question: When you were living with your roommate did you have a guy you were head over heels in love with that wanted you to leave and be with him? Of course not, that’s his past pattern, which I’m hoping is a subject to change. No I didn’t. I would have never mentally allowed myself to get there. I don’t think the concerns would have been different if I did though. Just the motivation to do it faster would have been there (yet fast is a relative term). Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Of course not, that’s his past pattern, which I’m hoping is a subject to change. How are you planning to manipulate this so he will change? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: No I didn’t. I would have never mentally allowed myself to get there. I don’t think the concerns would have been different if I did though. Just the motivation to do it faster would have been there (yet fast is a relative term). Then your situation is entirely different than this one. You had no one waiting to be with you, MM does yet he won't buge. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 Just now, stillafool said: How are you planning to manipulate this so he will change? Lol all I can do is show him the pros and cons, as well as give him confidence. If he wants to change, he will. It’s about overcoming inertia (which is hard) Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, stillafool said: Then your situation is entirely different than this one. You had no one waiting to be with you, MM does yet he won't buge. Right, yet the majority of the listed concerns are identical, in my opinion. Except the obvious added concern of hurting me by delaying his decision. Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Right, yet the majority of the listed concerns are identical, in my opinion. Except the obvious added concern of hurting me by delaying his decision. I thought he had decided to divorce and the issue is he’s making slow (imperceptible) progress telling his wife. Has he actually not decided yet? Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: I don't think he is genuinely unhappy in his marriage either. How could he be with the bare minimum amount of interaction they have + there is nothing shared, anticipated etc. It's a compatible housemate situation at best. I've been in similar situation and it's extremely hard to leave because there is no (obvious) reason. Hmm. I suspect IF it's a marriage with little love, affection, etc, then there is probably an emotional "void". Possibly one significant motivator in his having an affair with you. However, getting past the inertia and/or out of what is probably very much a "comfort zone," dealing with everything to divorce etc, is a BIG ask. Easier no doubt to just cheat and that's probably why some substantive portion of folks do it. So there is your "pickle". I would say don't wait TOO long. Also beware of IF you start to walk away he may start making noises about leaving, etc to get you to stick around. However, you need to put some reasonable deadlines to any of that or he may just go back to inertia once you're back and waiting for him. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Lol all I can do is show him the pros and cons, as well as give him confidence. If he wants to change, he will. It’s about overcoming inertia (which is hard) OK but why the inertia? He is 49 not 99. He must surely have some oomph left in him, some joie de vivre, some part of him up for the challenge .. no? As Stillafool says he has a love interest waiting for him, as well as the children he has supposedly always wanted... He is inert because IMO he doesn't actually WANT what is being offered... sad to say. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: I thought he had decided to divorce and the issue is he’s making slow (imperceptible) progress telling his wife. Has he actually not decided yet? Decision to actually do it, where the first step is telling her of course. He can speak to lawyers (and consider it progress) but until he tells her, I don't see it as final - because something is stopping him executing on it (whether it is a real or perceived fear etc) Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: Decision to actually do it, where the first step is telling her of course. He can speak to lawyers (and consider it progress) but until he tells her, I don't see it as final - because something is stopping him executing on it (whether it is a real or perceived fear etc) This is cryptic. He has decided to divorce but hasn’t told his wife yet? Ok, I agree that is one of the first steps if not the only first step. But, don’t fool yourself into thinking that once he tells her the decision is final. We have seen stories of MM who leave and go back sometimes multiple times. It’s not final until the ink is dry on the papers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, elaine567 said: OK but why the inertia? He is 49 not 99. He must surely have some oomph left in him, some joie de vivre, some part of him up for the challenge .. no? As Stillafool says he has a love interest waiting for him, as well as the children he has supposedly always wanted... He is inert because IMO he doesn't actually WANT what is being offered... sad to say. In a situation like this it is always what one loses vs what one gains. - in his case the gain (e.g. children) also comes with fear (e.g. age, how would we do it etc). At this point I see it as 50/50 decision point - something or someone needs to change to move things to say 60/40 - then he will do it. Also, he's not the impulsive or "of the moment" type, quite the opposite. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Hmm. I suspect IF it's a marriage with little love, affection, etc, then there is probably an emotional "void". Possibly one significant motivator in his having an affair with you. However, getting past the inertia and/or out of what is probably very much a "comfort zone," dealing with everything to divorce etc, is a BIG ask. Easier no doubt to just cheat and that's probably why some substantive portion of folks do it. So there is your "pickle". I would say don't wait TOO long. Also beware of IF you start to walk away he may start making noises about leaving, etc to get you to stick around. However, you need to put some reasonable deadlines to any of that or he may just go back to inertia once you're back and waiting for him. Right, so could you suggest a reasonable way to put deadlines without being an ultimatum? In my case it's only the biological reason (childbearing/childrearing) that I can justify as just a fact not ultimatum... but yet I know that's big part of his hesitation as this will be the biggest life change. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: This is cryptic. He has decided to divorce but hasn’t told his wife yet? Ok, I agree that is one of the first steps if not the only first step. But, don’t fool yourself into thinking that once he tells her the decision is final. We have seen stories of MM who leave and go back sometimes multiple times. It’s not final until the ink is dry on the papers. Oh I can't agree more. It SHOULD be the first step and yet I know he will never tell her until he's 100% set on logistics, which personally scares me a lot because I know how people react to "news" like this. I have no dount she knows he has a parallel life and it's sad to say but she probably is not even bothered because he knows his personality and how passive he is (so she feels "safe" or at least that's what I am assuming). And certainly it will be back and forth, and likely mostly driven by her (unless he makes a 180 change he will be the passive party in the divorce too) so we literally depend on her mercy. I have a friend that did this (back and forth) to her ex husband for 5 years out of spite... it will be a nightmare if we get into a similar development. (btw my friend's ex married his OW as she said "the second the ink dried" and they have been going strong so far... ) Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Right, so could you suggest a reasonable way to put deadlines without being an ultimatum? In my case it's only the biological reason (childbearing/childrearing) that I can justify as just a fact not ultimatum... but yet I know that's big part of his hesitation as this will be the biggest life change. Yes tell him straight up that your birthday is coming up and you want to be married and start having kids. Tell him you can't wait another year for him to leave. That if he does want to be with you he will have to make a decision by_________________. Tell him if he can't you understand but you will no longer put your life on hold for him after that date. These would be your facts but there's no way to get this across with an ultimatum. If you don't want to do this then enjoy being the OW for the rest of your life or he let's you go. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: At this point I see it as 50/50 decision point - something or someone needs to change to move things to say 60/40 - then he will do it. Is that not a bit upsetting that after 3 years he is really still on the fence and you have to think up devious ways to try to force him to be with you? He is going to really love that a few years down the line... manipulated into marriage... 8 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Right, so could you suggest a reasonable way to put deadlines without being an ultimatum? In my case it's only the biological reason (childbearing/childrearing) that I can justify as just a fact not ultimatum... but yet I know that's big part of his hesitation as this will be the biggest life change. Not really. To me a deadline needs to be a sort of ultimatum, otherwise for something like this it carries little weight. If he can't bring himself to start separating, you move on. If you're really going to try to get him to leave, to me the issue is your distaste for (reasonable time-frame) ultimatums. Deadlines imply (some sort of) consequences. Your point about your bio clock is certainly a valid approach that perhaps meets your requirements here though. Edited November 15, 2021 by mark clemson Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: And certainly it will be back and forth, and likely mostly driven by her (unless he makes a 180 change he will be the passive party in the divorce too) so we literally depend on her mercy. I have a friend that did this (back and forth) to her ex husband for 5 years out of spite... it will be a nightmare if we get into a similar development. It doesn't matter about back and forths. If a person wants to be divorced they can file for divorce on their own and have the papers served to their spouse. Lawyers take care of it all. Really no excuses if a person really wants a divorce. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, elaine567 said: manipulated into marriage... And, this is just it. True loves does not require manipulation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 His "innocent" betrayed wife may then start looking like an angel compared to the OP and her ambitions for him... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 3 hours ago, TamBuktu said: They have no idea. So you describe these people as common friends (which suggests they were also friends of his), and they have no idea he is married? Something is very strange there, unless these people are your friends that you introduced him to and now you all hang out together. Is that what you mean? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: So you describe these people as common friends (which suggests they were also friends of his), and they have no idea he is married? Something is very strange there, unless these people are your friends that you introduced him to and now you all hang out together. Is that what you mean? We met them through a hobby that we share few years ago. He has been going there before me but they weren’t talking. I know something is fishy (especially based on family meetings) but yet everyone here believes I’m delusional to think that… Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 hour ago, stillafool said: And, this is just it. True loves does not require manipulation. May I ask where do you see manipulation? I purposely never made demands or put ultimatums to avoid manipulation, so I don’t see what makes you think that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 15, 2021 Author Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 hour ago, stillafool said: It doesn't matter about back and forths. If a person wants to be divorced they can file for divorce on their own and have the papers served to their spouse. Lawyers take care of it all. Really no excuses if a person really wants a divorce. That’s based on your personal experience? I’ve supported some people through divorce and it was never that simple.. Link to post Share on other sites
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