It's complicated - insight needed

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Never before today. I had a very busy day but from my assessment - there are some suspicious features like repetitiveness in behaviors, extreme observational skills in some aspects and missing in other etc.

I won't do armchair psychology but it might still help me read for alternative communication strategies if he's indeed on the spectrum, this was a good idea.

I would also consider his strange communication style, difficulties expressing his feelings, tendency to avoid change/stay in relationships and jobs…
 

You realize, I’m sure, that if he is on the spectrum both that and his age would increase the risk of having children who are also on the Autism Spectrum. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

7 hours ago, Crazelnut said:

Ok, so you want communication tips. Here's one -- learn to communicate directly and assertively. Any partner that you have to manipulate (yes, that's what you're doing) and with whom you cannot express your deepest needs is not a good partner.

You say you're deliriously happy, and yet here you are. You said you wanted to deal with this factually. Ok. Fact: he is married and making absolutely no effort to change that. Fact: you are a mistress, dealing with mistress things, like guilt at church and lying by omission to friends, and those don't feel good. Fact: you want a child and he already signed away his parental rights. This love for the ages is going nowhere. But I suspect it doesn't matter. You'll stay in this run-of-the-mill affair, until one day the real truth dawns on you, but it will be too late. 

Too late for what though? My life is great as is, he is just the cherry on the cake. I have done my share of things to preserve fertility, it's not ideal to delay but is also not catastrophic (like it would have been to a woman relying just on her own biology).

I wanted to make it clear once again, I am not looking for a resolution (I have made my decision long time ago) or restating the obvious, just insights from facts, based on his behavior as well as mine. Based on personal experiences or concrete details of our experience.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You realize, I’m sure, that if he is on the spectrum both that and his age would increase the risk of having children who are also on the Autism Spectrum. 

Yeah, it's very probable. I work with a bunch of people on the spectrum, highly functioning, it's definitely a problem but a risk that I am willing to take.

Of course paternal age comes with more serious complications as well and that is something always on the back of my mind, don't think I'm getting into this blindly... 

[TamBuktu]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

^^ I could not agree more crazelnut. Well said.

If I may, I would add - 

Any relationship for which you must speak in code and never discuss the real issues (and the fact that he is married and will need to divorce in order for you to legitimately be together is a really significant issue) is not a mature or healthy relationship. 

If that is your goal - there are other, better options, than a 50 year old man who is married to another woman. Even if he was a single fifty year old man who was living the bachelor lifestyle and had never before made the decision to have a child, he would be a very unwise choice. If you are honest with yourself, and assess the situation rationally as you say you are trying to do, you would see this. But you don’t see this, because you are making an emotionally driven decision. When you write a list of cons like the one that you wrote above and the pro is “he cares for me and I feel happy when we are together” - despite all this talk about “facts,” you are making an emotionally driven decision.

You may in fact get along well - but you are not compatible as it relates to the things that really matter - the things that make him a reliable partner and the things that make this a successful, legitimate relationship. This happens all the time - people are drawn together but for any number of different reasons, they can not/should not be together. If I met a man who was fun and sweet to me, but he could not hold a steady job, had significant debt, lived far away from me, was dealing with the challenge of settling a divorce, etc… it would not matter that we had fun together and he was kind to me. My head would say - WOAH, too many red flags here, this is not going to work. The truth of your situation - there are so many red flags here that you are just ignoring, because it doesn’t support the fantasy that you have created for yourself. And that is going to cause you a whole world of pain. 

So yes, continue on if you must and I expect that you will do. But, your rational mind is screaming at you that there is a problem here - ignore that at your own peril. 

From all this the fact I fully agree with is that we should have taken direct communication approach to start with. I enjoyed the riddles (still do) and never expected this to turn so serious. We kind of kept the friendship banter style that we used to have long before anything more happened. In fact - he tried initially to bring up some things, I would always stop him and say lets figure it out over time - well, this wasn't the best of my decisions:(

Now that we have a set precedent- it's not impossible but is hard to make a major shift.

 

Of course there are many red flags - I think for some of them we haven't even scratched the surface. I have tried the "rational" partner choice previously and it didn't work for me. I had friends that did the same thing - it worked for them and they are happily married to their understanding. It just wasn't something for me. 

The above reasoning that you cite is not mine - it is what i described to you as pros/cons given by my friends and family. To me, although these are all valid reasons, the overarching theme is that I have found someone I "click" with and that's hard to explain in simple pros/cons list. I am still soul searching on this.

I don't need to be married to him - it's more of a want, not need. I don't think I am losing much besides time, if things go south, but then at least I'd know I spend the time with someone I enjoyed instead of mindless "goal" dating. And yes, fertility (or more so childrearing) is a major worry.. that's why I stated an year as a reasonable timeframe before taking other actions (still don't know what these would be).


All I want at this point is to understand what's going on and I know the best advice lol, talk to him directly, i just cant get myself to do it without losing my nerves, being avoidant, or being annoying quite frankly.

[RebeccaR]

11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I don't need to be married to him - it's more of a want, not need. I don't think I am losing much besides time, if things go south, but then at least I'd know I spend the time with someone I enjoyed instead of mindless "goal" dating.

A few days ago you were struck with unbearable anxiety when you feared you might have lost him. Again, which is it? 

[RebeccaR]

12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

i just cant get myself to do it without losing my nerves

What do you mean by “losing my nerves”? In common usage (losing one’s ‘nerve’, singular, not plural) that means not having the courage to do something. Maybe there is a language barrier because you seem to be using it differently. Do you mean you get very nervous?

[RebeccaR]

15 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

or being annoying quite frankly.

If you marry him, how will you cope when you’re worried about annoying him? Raising children often frays one’s patience and annoying one’s coparent is a given. Have you spent much time around young children and teenagers?

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

What do you mean by “losing my nerves”? In common usage (losing one’s ‘nerve’, singular, not plural) that means not having the courage to do something. Maybe there is a language barrier because you seem to be using it differently. Do you mean you get very nervous?

Yes - bad translation from a different language - what I was trying to say is I keep losing my composure, call it anger issues, I say things that can be hurtful and are unnecessary.. 

Regarding my Saturday anxiety - that's exactly what happen. Of course I was super upset and scared, that would have been a disaster (caused by me)

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

If you marry him, how will you cope when you’re worried about annoying him? Raising children often frays one’s patience and annoying one’s coparent is a given. Have you spent much time around young children and teenagers?

Nope. It is a concern that he expressed too (when we resolve the current "situation" there will be other situations testing my patience) and it is a valid point. I need to work on myself I guess

I mean put it this way, in some social aspects we are both a mess, which also never stopped people from having marriages and kids..

Edited November 17, 2021 by TamBuktu

[RebeccaR]

6 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes - bad translation from a different language - what I was trying to say is I keep losing my composure, call it anger issues, I say things that can be hurtful and are unnecessary.. 

Regarding my Saturday anxiety - that's exactly what happen. Of course I was super upset and scared, that would have been a disaster (caused by me)

But if you don’t “need” him, and one of the reasons you might lose him is you are unable to express your feelings, why not reach the reasonable conclusion that the relationship is just not working out? Even aside from the affair situation and his lack of desire to divorce, it seems you guys have some real relationship issues?

[RebeccaR]

7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

mean put it this way, in some social aspects we are both a mess, which also never stopped people from having marriages and kids..

wise people delay marriage and kids to get necessary therapy, when they are aware of issues, rather than go ahead with a relationship that’s doomed to fail.

[BaileyB]

55 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yeah, it's very probable. I work with a bunch of people on the spectrum, highly functioning, it's definitely a problem but a risk that I am willing to take.

I work with young children on the spectrum and their families - mostly children who are more involved. I have seen the stress this places on families. I have seen marriages end. In my current job, I get regular phone calls from parents of preschool and school age children with ASD - these parents are not coping at all. I’ve answered calls from parents looking for assistance because their children have been asked not to return to daycare or school. Last week, I had a grandmother/daytime caregiver call and the only thing she said in her message was “I need help. Call me please.” I once had a mother call and ask how she could surrender guardianship of her child because she could not cope anymore. So, there is the other end of the spectrum too. If you are ok with that, especially with the possibility of being a single parent, then you have no worries…

Edited November 17, 2021 by BaileyB

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

I work with young children on the spectrum and their families - mostly children who are more involved. I have seen the stress this places on families. I have seen marriages end. In my current job, I get regular phone calls from parents of preschool and school age children with ASD - these parents are not coping at all. Last week, I had a grandmother/daytime caregiver call and the only thing she said in her message was “I need help. Call me please.” I once had a mother call and ask how she could surrender guardianship of her child because she could not cope anymore. So, there is the other end of the spectrum too. If you are ok with that, especially with the possibility of being a single parent, then you have no worries…

Speaking from personal experience, having kids on the spectrum is more stressful than one can imagine 

[TamBuktu]

26 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

wise people delay marriage and kids to get necessary therapy, when they are aware of issues, rather than go ahead with a relationship that’s doomed to fail.

Good news is we’re not getting married soon lol so maybe it’s good we were delayed by the circumstances;)

[TamBuktu]

21 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Speaking from personal experience, having kids on the spectrum is more stressful than one can imagine 

I hear you, Bailey as well, I’ve done all in my power to minimize genetic risks, from here on it’s not in my hands.

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

Good news is we’re not getting married soon lol so maybe it’s good we were delayed by the circumstances;)

What happened?  Earlier in this thread you were in a hurry to get married and start having kids.

[stillafool]

23 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Call me please.” I once had a mother call and ask how she could surrender guardianship of her child because she could not cope anymore.

We had a woman on this board a few weeks ago who wanted to give up guardianship of her teenage daughter.  She had her at 18 and was now tired.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

What happened?  Earlier in this thread you were in a hurry to get married and start having kids.

We probably have different definitions of a hurry, that’s all.

If we are being realistic things can’t be resolved in a blink- so there will be (necessary) delays

[stillafool]

43 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes - bad translation from a different language - what I was trying to say is I keep losing my composure, call it anger issues, I say things that can be hurtful and are unnecessary.. 

Regarding my Saturday anxiety - that's exactly what happen. Of course I was super upset and scared, that would have been a disaster (caused by me)

You don't feel very secure with him or you wouldn't feel this way about having a conversation about what you want and need.  If you consider him your soul mate you would have no problem talking to him about anything because you would feel so comfortable that you would be heard and understood.  You wouldn't be nervous that he would consider it pressure or an ultimatum.  I don't think you are as close to him as you say or you wouldn't have fear that he would reject your conversation and dump you.  Just something to think about.

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

We probably have different definitions of a hurry, that’s all.

If we are being realistic things can’t be resolved in a blink- so there will be (necessary) delays

You've changed your story many times in this thread.  I'm not surprised at this ^.

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

You've changed your story many times in this thread.  I'm not surprised at this ^.

I think Tam feels judged by this board and is pretending to be chill for us, while it’s her massive anxiety and insecurity in the relationship that caused her to post in the first place. We’re all anonymous here and there’s no way she provided identifying details. I can’t imagine caring about being judged by an anonymous board. You don’t have to put on a good show for us - but apparently you feel you do for the love of your life? Doesn’t make sense.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes - bad translation from a different language - what I was trying to say is I keep losing my composure.

Do you and he both come from the same cultural background? Do you and he speak English with each other but not the same native language?

Before deliberating if he has neurological or psychiatric problems, it's important to understand if you are experiencing cultural and language barriers.

Is this the case? And agree. Some idioms do not translate well and can be confusing.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Wiseman2]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:04 PM, ExpatInItaly said:

 Your odd writing style suggests you struggle accepting your own role in this affair so you use a lot of distancing language. 

Agree. It's hard to have intimate conversations with him about important topics regarding your thoughts and feelings, if it's vague, riddles and cryptic language.

However you claim you both speak the same native language, which is not english, so perhaps things are clearer to him than it appears in these posts?

[TamBuktu]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree. It's hard to have intimate conversations with him about important topics regarding your thoughts and feelings, if it's vague, riddles and cryptic language.

However you claim you both speak the same native language, which is not english, so perhaps things are clearer to him than it appears in these posts?

We share a different language as well, although he considers English his native language and it's generally our language of preference. I prefer not to disclose further details here but yes, there might be language/cultural element involved too.

[TamBuktu]

15 hours ago, stillafool said:

You don't feel very secure with him or you wouldn't feel this way about having a conversation about what you want and need.  If you consider him your soul mate you would have no problem talking to him about anything because you would feel so comfortable that you would be heard and understood.  You wouldn't be nervous that he would consider it pressure or an ultimatum.  I don't think you are as close to him as you say or you wouldn't have fear that he would reject your conversation and dump you.  Just something to think about.

That's a good point, I think he has his guard up and that's what stops me from being more open. Also he literally shuts up under pressure, which makes any discussion counterproductive - it could be for something as simple as his doctor giving him a choice between 2 pills and he can't decide which one to take - so he just doesn't take them at all.