It's complicated - insight needed

[elaine567]

Have you ever considered his wife may not take this lying down. and will do her damnedest to ruin your life?

He may be worried about  his safety and peace of mind, but what about yours?

If he is really so passive/submissive in his marriage too, then it will be you that is seen as the aggressor.

Since you agreed to shut off the "pain topic" for a few days, has he brought it up by himself?

[TamBuktu]

15 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

I think Tam feels judged by this board and is pretending to be chill for us, while it’s her massive anxiety and insecurity in the relationship that caused her to post in the first place. We’re all anonymous here and there’s no way she provided identifying details. I can’t imagine caring about being judged by an anonymous board. You don’t have to put on a good show for us - but apparently you feel you do for the love of your life? Doesn’t make sense.

So I initially posted because of our anniversary date, in loose terms, being close.

But of course, I feel judged, wouldn't you feel judged in my place? It's not only a touchy subject but people immediately make conclusions and start character assassination. Like just here what I heard for myself is that I am manipulative, delusional and confused, and he is weak, selfish and an user. Even if some of these were true, would you enjoy hearing these for yourself or a loved one? Also, there was a lot of "decision making" and "future projecting" for us, that I didn't ask for. 

All I wanted is unbiased (unlike my friends/family) look of the entirety of the situation, I am not looking for a solution but to put together the parts that don't make sense. We can claim all we want that it is a "generic affair" but even if it was, there are some details that just don't make sense. I made it harder for everyone of course by disclosing irrelevant details like our fertility journey or financial stuff...and of course people jumped on these (which is normal)... I still have got a lot good advice, and yet a bunch of open questions that make no sense to me.

The only "negative" of this whole exercise is it spiked my anxiety on few occasions - which again translated wrong that my entire existence is anxiety ridden.. Anyway, it is nice to bounce thoughts off in a "relatively) safe environment, because as we all know anonymity in the virtual space is not really a thing, and I have the feeling that's why people share personal stories very reluctantly (I am talking about stories of people that have been the MM or the MW themselves, especially those that still are).

[TamBuktu]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Do you mean he shuts you down when you attempt to talk to him? Or do you mean you two just talk in riddles and circles and that makes any worthwhile conversation difficult?

He doesn't have to take any medication if he doesn't want to, that in itself Is a Decision, so It is Not "indecisive".

Both actually. When it comes to uncomfortable topics, he pretends (I think) he doesn't understand or will start talking about something related to the topic that has minimal or no impact. It's hard to explain without giving specific example, I hope it is sort of clear. 

And when it comes to real responses, they are vague or given in a riddle. I am guilty of doing the same thing.

[RebeccaR]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I am guilty of doing the same thing.

Believe it or not, two people with the same flaws don’t make a great match. 

[TamBuktu]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Have you ever considered his wife may not take this lying down. and will do her damnedest to ruin your life?

He may be worried about  his safety and peace of mind, but what about yours?

If he is really so passive/submissive in his marriage too, then it will be you that is seen as the aggressor.

Since you agreed to shut off the "pain topic" for a few days, has he brought it up by himself?

It's very possible. And I wouldn't even blame her... If she considers him that passive, the logical thought will be someone "forced" him into a different relationship, if I were her I'd think that for sure.

He didn't bring it up, but i did - because of something circumstantial. I wish I didn't, so I can observe his reaction..

I figured that for me the only way to bring serious things up is when there is a circumstance to initiate a conversation. I know it's very unhealthy and wonder how to change this.

[RebeccaR]

Just now, TamBuktu said:

I know it's very unhealthy and wonder how to change this.

A good therapist could help you work to change these patterns 

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

A good therapist could help you work to change these patterns 

Yeah, it will take time though.. I’m looking for “patch” solution for here and now 

[Starswillshine]

20 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Both actually. When it comes to uncomfortable topics, he pretends (I think) he doesn't understand or will start talking about something related to the topic that has minimal or no impact. It's hard to explain without giving specific example, I hope it is sort of clear. 

And when it comes to real responses, they are vague or given in a riddle. I am guilty of doing the same thing.

None of these are good signs. 

I don't think this guy is passive at all. Nor a whimp. 

[stillafool]

33 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

All I wanted is unbiased (unlike my friends/family) look of the entirety of the situation,

Sorry but this is pretty much what you can expect when you come to a public forum.  You will get all types of answers and questions and some or most will not be to your liking.  If you want unbiased opinions and information about your dilema it's best to see a professional therapist for that.

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Sorry but this is pretty much what you can expect when you come to a public forum.  You will get all types of answers and questions and some or most will not be to your liking.  If you want unbiased opinions and information about your dilema it's best to see a professional therapist for that.

Also, it’s impossible to be unbiased when OP is clearly giving a biased view of the situation.

[stillafool]

23 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

t's very possible. And I wouldn't even blame her... If she considers him that passive, the logical thought will be someone "forced" him into a different relationship, if I were her I'd think that for sure.

She isn't the only one who would consider him passive as you do too.  This makes it all the more dangerous for YOU if you're found out because he's so spineless he will surely throw you under the first bus running when he's confronted about this affair.  He's not going to take the blame because he's not going to leave her.

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Sorry but this is pretty much what you can expect when you come to a public forum.  You will get all types of answers and questions and some or most will not be to your liking.  If you want unbiased opinions and information about your dilema it's best to see a professional therapist for that.

Agreed. I do fear judgement from a therapist too, in the end of the day they are people too. Associating “affair” with something dirty is well too ingrained unfortunately

[TamBuktu]

18 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

None of these are good signs. 

I don't think this guy is passive at all. Nor a whimp. 

Bad signs for what?

I know he’s not a whimp because he gets his ways. He’s just perceived that way. He does have genuine fears as well.

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

All I wanted is unbiased (unlike my friends/family) look of the entirety of the situation, I am not looking for a solution

What, exactly, do your friends and family think of all this?

When you speak in riddles and the first several pages of your topic were about trying to decipher your "vague and riddles" posts, then you can't really hope for straight answers, just like he speaks in vagueness and riddles, never being forthcoming, factual or logical with you. 

 However when people live a lie, the truth is their enemy. That is the case with him. Both with you and his wife.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Wiseman2

[TamBuktu]

6 minutes ago, stillafool said:

She isn't the only one who would consider him passive as you do too.  This makes it all the more dangerous for YOU if you're found out because he's so spineless he will surely throw you under the first bus running when he's confronted about this affair.  He's not going to take the blame because he's not going to leave her.

It’s possible. I personally have no fear because sadly, I have way too much experience with unpleasant situations.

But yes, who knows how he would react.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

What, exactly, do your friends and family think of all this?

When you speak in riddles and the first several pages of yours topic were about trying to decipher your "vague and riddles" posts, then you can't really hope for straight answers, just like he speaks in vagueness and riddles, never being forthcoming, factual or logical with you. 

 However when people live a lie, the truth is their enemy. That is the case with him. Both with you and his wife.

I posted above but in a nutshell they find him loving and caring on one side, but indecisive and immature in the other.

You’re right, I learned that the hard way:)

Could you elaborate on your third paragraph? I’m not following 

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Agreed. I do fear judgement from a therapist too, in the end of the day they are people too. Associating “affair” with something dirty is well too ingrained unfortunately

Don't fear judgment from them; that's not what medical professionals do.  I think you really need to talk to a professional to help with your fears and anxiety as well as this situation with MM.

[stillafool]

6 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I personally have no fear because sadly, I have way too much experience with unpleasant situations.

I don't understand this because you have a fear to even talk about what you want with MM yet no fear of violence.

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I’m not following 

Is this what he does to you when he "pretends he doesn't understand", as mentioned in your previous post?  Do you think he is obtuse, just acting obtuse or actually doesn't understand what you're talking about?

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Is this what he does to you when he "pretends he doesn't understand", as mentioned in your previous post?  Do you think he is obtuse, just acting obtuse or actually doesn't understand what you're talking about?

I don't know really. It just happens way too conveniently only when the topic is serious, so I suspect he either pretends, or if he doesn't - is some kind of mental block.

I still don't understand your third paragraph lol.

[Starswillshine]

23 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Bad signs for what?

I know he’s not a whimp because he gets his ways. He’s just perceived that way. He does have genuine fears as well.

He is manipulating the situation. Diverts the conversation to something more pleasant. To something he does not have to answer about. To have to lie about. The playing dumb... to buy time to come up with a believable story. 

It is all too familiar. 

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

It just happens way too conveniently only when the topic is serious, so I suspect he either pretends, or if he doesn't - is some kind of mental block.

He doesn’t want  serious conversations with you. Didn’t you say he likes things bubbly and cheerful? Of course he changes the subject when you’re trying to change the role he assigned to you. 

[TamBuktu]

15 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Don't fear judgment from them; that's not what medical professionals do.  I think you really need to talk to a professional to help with your fears and anxiety as well as this situation with MM.

I have no problem talking about my own issues to them, but I absolutely don't want to disclose anything related to MM

[TamBuktu]

14 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

He doesn’t want  serious conversations with you. Didn’t you say he likes things bubbly and cheerful? Of course he changes the subject when you’re trying to change the role he assigned to you. 

So it's a good chance to change that, gradually

[TamBuktu]

31 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand this because you have a fear to even talk about what you want with MM yet no fear of violence.

To me is very easy to understand why I am doing this:
- in the first scenario I depend on another person
- in the second scenario I depend only on myself

I've seen violence and what not directly towards me, i can deal with it, I have track history that I can. I am a solo player in general and the change is challenging...