It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

31 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand this because you have a fear to even talk about what you want with MM yet no fear of violence.

To me is very easy to understand why I am doing this:
- in the first scenario I depend on another person
- in the second scenario I depend only on myself

I've seen violence and what not directly towards me, i can deal with it, I have track history that I can. I am a solo player in general and the change is challenging...

[stillafool]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I have no problem talking about my own issues to them, but I absolutely don't want to disclose anything related to MM

Why?  Anything you tell your therapist is confidential and protected by law.  That is the best place to talk about confidential information. 

[TamBuktu]

19 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

He is manipulating the situation. Diverts the conversation to something more pleasant. To something he does not have to answer about. To have to lie about. The playing dumb... to buy time to come up with a believable story. 

It is all too familiar. 

Yes, that sadly reminds me of your story.

The dilemma is
- if I "push" I a perceived as the manipulator.
- if  I don't - indeed the "buying time" element might work against me, if you are right

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

Why?  Anything you tell your therapist is confidential and protected by law.  That is the best place to talk about confidential information. 

Yeah, on paper, I just don't trust the system... A friend of mine disclosed something to a social worker related to abuse in her past - she claims that years later, it is circulating her medical records and being brought up inappropriately. These types of stories are anecdotal, but still, I am worried giving power to someone else in such an intimate situation... Also, I fully realize that these fears might be irrational and yet that doesn't make it any easier.

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

So it's a good chance to change that, gradually

Maybe so, but like so many MM in affairs, they bask in the attention of the perfect and compliant OW.
Once she changes into a person demanding "more", they tend to not like that at all.
She then becomes similar to the wife they were trying to avoid by having the affair...
One wife, one OW  - bliss
Two women acting like wives - nightmare.

[TamBuktu]

Just now, elaine567 said:

Maybe so, but like so many MM in affairs, they bask in the attention of the perfect and compliant OW.
Once she changes into a person demanding "more", they tend to not like that at all.
She then becomes similar to the wife they were trying to avoid by having the affair...
One wife, one OW  - bliss
Two women acting like wives - nightmare.

So maybe this will be a test for his real intentions?

Nagging all the time is not something most people will enjoy of course, so it’s a fine balance.

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yeah, on paper, I just don't trust the system... A friend of mine disclosed something to a social worker related to abuse in her past - she claims that years later, it is circulating her medical records and being brought up inappropriately. These types of stories are anecdotal, but still, I am worried giving power to someone else in such an intimate situation... Also, I fully realize that these fears might be irrational and yet that doesn't make it any easier.

Yet you come to a public forum and disclose enough that anyone who has a clue would know it is you.  What happened with your 1 friend is rare.  Maybe she should have done her research before choosing that therapist.  You really need to hire one.

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Maybe so, but like so many MM in affairs, they bask in the attention of the perfect and compliant OW.
Once she changes into a person demanding "more", they tend to not like that at all.
She then becomes similar to the wife they were trying to avoid by having the affair...
One wife, one OW  - bliss
Two women acting like wives - nightmare.

True and then what happens - a new OW enters the picture.  Never fails.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Yet you come to a public forum and disclose enough that anyone who has a clue would know it is you.  What happened with your 1 friend is rare.  Maybe she should have done her research before choosing that therapist.  You really need to hire one.

Yes, that’s why I bounce between being vague and over sharing. I have my regrets about the oversharing and yet it’s too late to reverse.

It’s still nowhere near the level of lack of anonymity with a therapist. As said I can talk to one about everything but not the MM situation. At this point of time it is just a risk I’m not willing to take.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

He didn't bring it up, but i did - because of something circumstantial. I wish I didn't, so I can observe his reaction..

So what happened when you brought it up again?

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

At this point of time it is just a risk I’m not willing to take.

But you'll take that risk on a public forum?  Okay

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

But you'll take that risk on a public forum?  Okay

Lol yes, it was a bad judgement call:/

[TamBuktu]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So what happened when you brought it up again?

Unfortunately same thing. He clinged on the irrelevant side track ignoring the main conversation. I’ll try again.

[Crazelnut]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

 Associating “affair” with something dirty is well too ingrained unfortunately

Because it is?? For the record, I speak from experience on both sides. Whitewashing it in your mind only works for so long. You know that squicky feeling you get at church when you mislead everyone into thinking he"s not married? THAT. 

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

Because it is?? For the record, I speak from experience on both sides. Whitewashing it in your mind only works for so long. You know that squicky feeling you get at church when you mislead everyone into thinking he"s not married? THAT. 

I think - at church they all know he’s married, but are wondering what OW is doing there since she’s a different race or religion and clearly an outsider.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, Crazelnut said:

Because it is?? For the record, I speak from experience on both sides. Whitewashing it in your mind only works for so long. You know that squicky feeling you get at church when you mislead everyone into thinking he"s not married? THAT. 

It will be helpful if you can share your experience.

Of course it is, and also of course there are exceptions.

I think of it the following way. Imagine a murder. It’s always a horrible event, no matter what. However, would you consider the following 4 scenarios identical: 1) self defense 2) a victim breaking free of an abuser 3) situational neglect like forgetting the stove on 4) intentional cold crime. That’s an extreme example but I’m just trying to find an illustrative way to convey my point

[Crazelnut]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

I think - at church they all know he’s married, but are wondering what OW is doing there since she’s a different race or religion and clearly an outsider.

Oh, I must've understood. Thanks.

Nonetheless, it is associated with something dirty because it is. It is morally and legally "dirty," no matter what you try to tell yourself. No one can help who they fall in love with, but at least own what you're doing and who you are. 

However, a good therapist will NOT bring morality into it. He/she will focus on your psychological health and functioning. No need to fear judgement from a professional.  

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I think - at church they all know he’s married, but are wondering what OW is doing there since she’s a different race or religion and clearly an outsider.

And let’s assume that’s the case. Why would he intentionally put me in this situation? Which also endangers him.

[TamBuktu]

Just now, Crazelnut said:

Oh, I must've understood. Thanks.

Nonetheless, it is associated with something dirty because it is. It is morally and legally "dirty," no matter what you try to tell yourself. No one can help who they fall in love with, but at least own what you're doing and who you are. 

However, a good therapist will NOT bring morality into it. He/she will focus on your psychological health and functioning. No need to fear judgement from a professional.  

So in your opinion there is no circumstance making an affair acceptable or only possible solution of the moment? It’s 100% unforgivable, no matter what? Would the same thing apply if two of the parties are in long term relationship but not married or this applies to marriage and marriage only?

[elaine567]

Just now, TamBuktu said:

Unfortunately same thing. He clinged on the irrelevant side track ignoring the main conversation. I’ll try again.

He is a slippery one...
I personally do not think you have a hope in hell with this man.
Sorry!

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

And let’s assume that’s the case. Why would he intentionally put me in this situation? Which also endangers him.

Are you suggesting he’s trying intentionally to engineer a DDay? Is that what you took as a sign? Why don’t you just ask him why?

[RebeccaR]

I think you would feel more accountability with a trained therapist than with anonymous s***posters. If a therapist showed you the problematic behavior patterns of MM, you couldn’t easily just reverse what you previously said.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

Are you suggesting he’s trying intentionally to engineer a DDay? Is that what you took as a sign? Why don’t you just ask him why?

Yes. Either this, or he is hoping for guidance or push from others.

I did ask him and his answer was he wants to immerse me in his world. Shall I believe him?

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I think you would feel more accountability with a trained therapist than with anonymous s***posters. If a therapist showed you the problematic behavior patterns of MM, you couldn’t easily just reverse what you previously said.

I don’t see reversing of anything?

But yeah, if I had one that I trust it would have been ideal. I don’t thought, and even if I did - it’s one person opinion, a trained person but still a person.

I’ve been to therapy previously, I found it useful to bounce off and understand thoughts but useless for solving situations. I think it could be really helpful for my own issues (ie anxiety and communication difficulties) but to share my personal story with them, would be more harmful than useful (considering the moral bias).

[RebeccaR]

6 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes. Either this, or he is hoping for guidance or push from others.

I did ask him and his answer was he wants to immerse me in his world. Shall I believe him?

Have you considered his wife might be engineering things? Maybe she is directing him to immerse you, and to sneakily get you to make him your beneficiary. Maybe it’s a situation where she’s sexually turned on knowing he’s with another woman. There are a lot of possibilities.