It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

12 hours ago, BaileyB said:

My friend, if you have to work this hard it’s just not meant to be… You shouldn’t have to convince the man to be in a legitimate relationship with you. Either he wants this and he will make it happen, or he won’t. And no amount of time, communication, planning, or scheming will change it…

That's very true, ball is in his court. All I need to do is show him I want this with him because the more I think, I never made a point of it over the years.

[TamBuktu]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Can't you just ask him?  What fight? 

"Do you live with your wife"? is a pretty simple question. Is that what you think you need a detective crew to figure out? 

Who cares? It still doesn't change your situation as far as your age, his age, the fact that he's married, etc.

All you need to know is if being a mistress is the best path for you vs having a husband and family with an available honest man.

Perhaps being a mistress is a phase, especially with all the mystery, riddles, circular talk, avoiding reality, etc.

Like an interesting book. Maybe you'll finish reading it, then pursue a real life of your own that you build with someone.

Is it possible he's not even married, just tells you that to avoid complications with you? Maybe she's just another mistress.

LOL it's simple if he ever acknowledged her existence, which he hasn't. It sounds so out of place to ask considering that.

To me what matters is if he still has feelings left for her etc. I doubt it considering what he is doing, but if so, I'd reconsider the "fight" - i meant building life with him.

And yes, it's like living a dream, book, movie, you name it. It's like a book you never want to stop reading.. I've never had a "honeymoon" type of feelings for that long, he's either a fantastic player or we share an out of this world connection, i don't know. That doesn't stop me from longing for real nuclear family but yet the joy of the moment is blurring my thoughts. Maybe is an escape of my serious, proper image that I've been living in my whole life, I don't know. That's why I said it's complicated.

On whether they are married? I am not sure if they are legally married. But does it matter? It only changes things if it comes to divorce. If she's his GF of 10 years who calls him "husband" it doesn't make my case any easier.

[TamBuktu]

22 minutes ago, stillafool said:

 Spying on his wife is definitely your hobby.  He doesn't have to spy on her he already knows what's going on.  He has invested more years in his marriage and her than you.  

 

You never answered as to why when he leaves your house to do "hobbies"  he doesn't come back to spend the night with you rather than go home to her.  Why?

Lol are you sure about that? That he goes "to her" and not to "his place/his independent activities"? And also that he knows all about her that I don't know? Maybe, just maybe I have evidence to think otherwise? Just some food for thought.

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I am not sure if they are legally married. But does it matter? 

Actually all that matters is if you are happy on the sidelines with someone who leaves every night and you're not even sure where.

[Allupinnit]

16 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

She's 30 years older than me but definitely spends more time in front of the mirror, as well as trying to catch men attention. It's actually quite funny to me. She's good looking but why on earth a woman her age will get hot for "likes" on social media lol. I generally avoid leading with my looks, for whatever reason I still feel "prudish" I know my relationship doesn't support this lol but that's how I feel. So I doubt he ran after me for looks, I just never made it a centerpiece of my "presentation" to him or to the world.

 

What qualities you think he values in a "mistress" vs "wife"?

I think you should stop busting on his wife.  You're trying to steal her man.  That's worse IMHO than anything you're laughing at behind her back.

[TamBuktu]

6 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

I think you should stop busting on his wife.  You're trying to steal her man.  That's worse IMHO than anything you're laughing at behind her back.

Ok, understood. I was just trying to make a point about looks and presentation because someone brought it up.

[Allupinnit]

Just now, TamBuktu said:

Ok, understood. I was just trying to make a point about looks and presentation because someone brought it up.

It's the nature of affairs.  The comparison, the triangulation, you're being pit against another woman who's not even aware of you.  It's really unfair.

[anika99]

20 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

. I've never had a "honeymoon" type of feelings for that long, he's either a fantastic player or we share an out of this world connection, i don't know.

This is common in affairs. They don't move out of the honeymoon phase because they don't progress like a normal relationship, for example you have been seeing this guy for 3yrs yet he has never spent a night with you. You also don't seem to really even know this guy, you don't if he's even married or living with his wife. WTF? Obviously your relationship with this man is very stunted. 

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, anika99 said:

This is common in affairs. They don't move out of the honeymoon phase because they don't progress like a normal relationship, for example you have been seeing this guy for 3yrs yet he has never spent a night with you. You also don't seem to really even know this guy, you don't if he's even married or living with his wife. WTF? Obviously your relationship with this man is very stunted. 

What would a "normal" progression be? I don't think I'd have been sleeping over if he was truly single either, for a number of reasons. 

Whether he lives with her is obviously a painful topic to think about, I know he has another woman and that's hurtful enough.. The fact he never mentions her except in a super cryptic manner made the whole thing emotionally easier, but conversations about it - hard to impossible. Otherwise I know all about him, I think (except this aspect of his life).

[Wiseman2]

12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I was just trying to make a point about looks and presentation because someone brought it up.

It sounds like you are seething with envy because she has what you want. You have no idea if she is "looking in a mirror all day", do you? 

[stillafool]

19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Lol are you sure about that? That he goes "to her" and not to "his place/his independent activities"? And also that he knows all about her that I don't know? Maybe, just maybe I have evidence to think otherwise? Just some food for thought.

I'm asking you why he doesn't come back and spend the night with you after his "activties".  Again, you won't answer that one.  I'm sure with your mind on his wife 99.9% of the time you're running a close second to what he knows about her while she cares 0.01% about you.  You need to investigate him the way you've done his wife.

[RebeccaR]

29 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

it's simple if he ever acknowledged her existence, which he hasn't. It sounds so out of place to ask considering that.

I think you will have to bring up the topic of his wife. If he doesn’t acknowledge a wife, how can he discuss his divorce with you?

He may not be acknowledging the wife’s existence precisely to forestall the divorce conversation - and that appears to be working for him.

31 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

To me what matters is if he still has feelings left for her etc. I doubt it considering what he is doing, but if so, I'd reconsider the "fight" - i meant building life with him.

This is common in affairs, that a person can have feelings for two people, can betray someone they claim to love, and can stay in a marriage despite the things they’re doing with their affair partner. This is seen time and time again on this sub.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

I'm asking you why he doesn't come back and spend the night with you after his "activties".  Again, you won't answer that one.  I'm sure with your mind on his wife 99.9% of the time you're running a close second to what he knows about her while she cares 0.01% about you.  You need to investigate him the way you've done his wife.

On your question- habit, mostly. Attachment to the place where he lives. Things to take care of as well. She can be a part of it but there is a lot more.

Of course I investigated him too lol, not now but at the beginning.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I think you will have to bring up the topic of his wife. If he doesn’t acknowledge a wife, how can he discuss his divorce with you?

He may not be acknowledging the wife’s existence precisely to forestall the divorce conversation - and that appears to be working for him.

This is common in affairs, that a person can have feelings for two people, can betray someone they claim to love, and can stay in a marriage despite the things they’re doing with their affair partner. This is seen time and time again on this sub.

Yes I think so too- that’s why he never brought her up on first place .

I hope divorce is something he handles in his own but if he needs my help- we can do it without mentioning her/the word divorce itself.. but that’s of course not the point. 
 

From what I’ve read here/elsewhere and discussed with divorced people- in the end of their relationship is not about feelings but 1) habit 2) guilt 3) practical inconvenience 4) fear of life after big change… Is that not right?

 

 

 

 

[TamBuktu]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It sounds like you are seething with envy because she has what you want. You have no idea if she is "looking in a mirror all day", do you? 

I have a pretty good idea of that actually 

Not that it matters

[RebeccaR]

8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

in the end of their relationship is not about feelings but 1) habit 2) guilt 3) practical inconvenience 4) fear of life after big change… Is that not right?

Without getting into whether or not this is entirely true, those are huge obstacles to overcome, don’t you agree? Especially since he may also be fearing the additional change of midlife fatherhood. 

[stillafool]

52 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

She's 30 years older than me but definitely spends more time in front of the mirror, as well as trying to catch men attention. It's actually quite funny to me. She's good looking but why on earth a woman her age will get hot for "likes" on social media lol. I generally avoid leading with my looks, for whatever reason I still feel "prudish" I know my relationship doesn't support this lol but that's how I feel. So I doubt he ran after me for looks, I just never made it a centerpiece of my "presentation" to him or to the world.

What qualities you think he values in a "mistress" vs "wife"?

OMG, you stalk her social media too?  Girl, please see a therapist.  Does he know you stalk his wife?

The qualities a MM values in a mistress is:  loyalty (never tell no matter what), great sex, fun to be around, not very curious (no questions about home life or wife), always available at the drop of a hat, not asking him to leave his wife.  It seems you have most of these except your obsession with his wife and him leaving her.  Drop that.

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Without getting into whether or not this is entirely true, those are huge obstacles to overcome, don’t you agree? Especially since he may also be fearing the additional change of midlife fatherhood. 

Of course they are. And these challenges apply even if he's fully single. It will be a struggle but so worth it for both of us n the end, I hope.

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

Of course they are. And these challenges apply even if he's fully single. It will be a struggle but so worth it for both of us n the end, I hope.

But you have something to gain (a legitimate partner, kids). He has little to gain, and a lot to lose. The cost-benefit analysis is entirely different on his side, you are only thinking of your side.

[stillafool]

14 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

From what I’ve read here/elsewhere and discussed with divorced people- in the end of their relationship is not about feelings but 1) habit 2) guilt 3) practical inconvenience 4) fear of life after big change… Is that not right?

 

Not for me.  I was a little sad that the marriage failed because I don't like to fail.  Otherwise I was ready to go.  Most people are.

 

20 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Of course I investigated him too lol, not now but at the beginning.

 

19 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

My question is (please let's leave moral judgement aside) - what else is smart to research?  I need the right questions, the rest I can handle

 

Well apparently you didn't find out much that is why you're still scratching for information.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

OMG, you stalk her social media too?  Girl, please see a therapist.  Does he know you stalk his wife?

The qualities a MM values in a mistress is:  loyalty (never tell no matter what), great sex, fun to be around, not very curious (no questions about home life or wife), always available at the drop of a hat, not asking him to leave his wife.  It seems you have most of these except your obsession with his wife and him leaving her.  Drop that.

I know her in real life, what's the big deal? She knows me too and I can't care less if she "stalks" me because I don't post anything embarrassing.

Loyalty - yes, but not in the beginning

Great sex now - yes, but no sex in the beginning

Not very curious - oh, VERY VERY VERY curious for everything, that's how we bonded

Always available - absolutely, any time for a loved one

Not asking him to leave - that changed recently, otherwise yes

I mean besides the last one and the not-curious one these are quality one would want in any life partner, no?

On my end the only other things I'd want from a husband/life partner are reliability (which I offer) and affection (which I offer). What else one would want from a "wife" material?

 

[TamBuktu]

Just now, stillafool said:

Not for me.  I was a little sad that the marriage failed because I don't like to fail.  Otherwise I was ready to go.  Most people are.

 

 

Well apparently you didn't find out much that is why you're still scratching for information.

The question was in relation to hiring someone, you're taking it out of the context.

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Not very curious - oh, VERY VERY VERY curious for everything, that's how we bonded

But you aren’t curious about his home life (except secretly), that’s something he values greatly about you

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

She knows me too and I can't care less if she "stalks" me because I don't post anything embarrassing.

But this is just it, she probably barely knows that you even exist.  People don't stalk what they don't care about. Start spying on him since he's the one you want and stop wasting time spying on her.  Jealousy is a hungry beast.

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

The question was in relation to hiring someone, you're taking it out of the context.

Oh you didn't make that clear in your post.  I'm glad to see that you are finally going to hire a Private Investigator.  Cheers to that.