Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: But you have something to gain (a legitimate partner, kids). He has little to gain, and a lot to lose. The cost-benefit analysis is entirely different on his side, you are only thinking of your side. Yes. I can't think from his side of course but if I try to make a stab in the cost benefit analysis for him what I offer is ("benefit"): - loyal, reliable, partner, gets along with his family - partner who is flexible, willing to make changes and capable to do so - at the prime of life and career, affectionate, passionate - kids, hopefully grandkids one day "cost" -"establishment", social stigma, family stigma, maybe fear of violence -fear of big changes -losing a friend, confidant (her) It's not like I'm waiting for him to be my Prince Charming "rescuing me" from my sad existence lol. And it's not like I told him the above, just sharing my thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I have a pretty good idea of that actually Not that it matters How often do you check her social media? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: On whether they are married? I am not sure if they are legally married. But does it matter? It only changes things if it comes to divorce. If she's his GF of 10 years who calls him "husband" it doesn't make my case any easier. The PI will tell you whether they are legally married or not. Yes it matters because if they aren't it will be a lot less difficult for him to come to you. Of course her being only a GF versus a wife makes it easier. No legal tanglements. You guys can just be together. Easy peasy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: How often do you check her social media? Lol what’s that question about? Whenever she posts something, I don’t “live” on social media Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, stillafool said: The PI will tell you whether they are legally married or not. Yes it matters because if they aren't it will be a lot less difficult for him to come to you. Of course her being only a GF versus a wife makes it easier. No legal tanglements. You guys can just be together. Easy peasy. That’s the thing the habit, guilt, fear would still apply “legally” married or not. It’s fun for satisfying my curiosity but won’t solve anything Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 You have an "amazing connection" because it doesn't take into account all of the real hardships of life. Also look up intermittent reinforcement. It's much harder to "get over" someone you never really had, but felt for a long time that you just might. Again this isn't some amazing love, it's really all scientific and what you think is love is really anxiety and addiction. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: You have an "amazing connection" because it doesn't take into account all of the real hardships of life. Also look up intermittent reinforcement. It's much harder to "get over" someone you never really had, but felt for a long time that you just might. Again this isn't some amazing love, it's really all scientific and what you think is love is really anxiety and addiction. I feel like we've been through so many more hardships than an "average" couple.. Just the fertility treatment itself was something many couples around me broke up over.. Could you elaborate a bit on the "intermittent reinforcement"? I read about it but I feel like we don't fall anywhere on this pattern. In fact, what kept me with him initially was his extreme predictability and consistency. I never have to wonder if he'll call, when he'll come - it is very reproducible pattern> Another thing that I love about him is how safe he makes me feel. Sometimes I'd almost feel like i was losing control, circumstances were too much to handle - he always kept leveled and calm outlook. I guess in terms of attachment theory I'm at a level of secure attachment with him (started as anxious attachment, him - avoidant attachment). And my personality is not addictive at all. I'm not a risk taker nor get excited about instantaneous rewards. I'm persistent to extreme only with things that i'm convinced are absolutely worth it... Someone mentioned it's highly unusual he never mentions her. I think it makes sense - considering he sees her as a mother figure and in his world the ultimate offense is disrespecting a mother figure... The guilt and shame are very strong, because of it. Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, TamBuktu said: Just the fertility treatment itself was something many couples around me broke up over. I thought the fertility treatment was performed when you were still not yet intimate? And yes, many couples struggle through fertility treatment because of the intense emotions around expectations around couplehood, parenthood and inability to conceive. Since you were having treatment as a preservative, with no concrete plans for parenthood at the time, of course you and he didn’t struggle as a couple. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Ok well carry on then...? Why can't you just leave things the way they are since he's consistent and not even hanging out with his old wife? The relationship works for him the way it is. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Someone mentioned it's highly unusual he never mentions her. I think it makes sense - considering he sees her as a mother figure and in his world the ultimate offense is disrespecting a mother figure... The guilt and shame are very strong, because of it. Even if this is true - which is highly speculative, and highly self-serving - do you realize how much therapy he will need to overcome this? You can’t coach him through this, if this were the case - he would need a professional. Does he have a therapist? Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just now, RebeccaR said: I thought the fertility treatment was performed when you were still not yet intimate? And yes, many couples struggle through fertility treatment because of the intense emotions around expectations around couplehood, parenthood and inability to conceive. Since you were having treatment as a preservative, with no concrete plans for parenthood at the time, of course you and he didn’t struggle as a couple. We didn't struggle with the expectations aspect of it, but I did need a lot of emotional and physical support to go through (multiple) procedures. If it wasn't him, I'd have given up. He was with me through every shot and I wasn't a "cheerful" companion then... He stuck with me. Same when some very annoying family members were around and he had to be the one mitigating our relationships. Same when I had multiple house repairs that I couldn't do myself and he had to stay in 100 degrees hot room to do it for me. I've been with him when he lost close people to him. Lost jobs, had health scares.. That's what I call hardships. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Allupinnit said: Ok well carry on then...? Why can't you just leave things the way they are since he's consistent and not even hanging out with his old wife? The relationship works for him the way it is. I guess I'm repeating myself but if I didn't want kids - I would. But I want them and want them soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: Even if this is true - which is highly speculative, and highly self-serving - do you realize how much therapy he will need to overcome this? You can’t coach him through this, if this were the case - he would need a professional. Does he have a therapist? Not to my knowledge. He sees every woman with kids, especially older, this way. Not sure if that's cultural or real mommy issues. Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: I thought the fertility treatment was performed when you were still not yet intimate? And yes, many couples struggle through fertility treatment because of the intense emotions around expectations around couplehood, parenthood and inability to conceive. Since you were having treatment as a preservative, with no concrete plans for parenthood at the time, of course you and he didn’t struggle as a couple. This and she doesn't have to do his laundry, put up with his annoying family, smell his morning breath or hear him snore, be the only one to clean out the fridge, maybe he's bad with finances? You know, the real-life humdrum that really takes the shine off sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I guess I'm repeating myself but if I didn't want kids - I would. But I want them and want them soon. You don't think that's PRESSURE to him? Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: We didn't struggle with the expectations aspect of it, but I did need a lot of emotional and physical support to go through (multiple) procedures. If it wasn't him, I'd have given up. He was with me through every shot and I wasn't a "cheerful" companion then... He stuck with me. Same when some very annoying family members were around and he had to be the one mitigating our relationships. Same when I had multiple house repairs that I couldn't do myself and he had to stay in 100 degrees hot room to do it for me. I've been with him when he lost close people to him. Lost jobs, had health scares.. That's what I call hardships. It sounds like you need a best friend - these are things any good friend would do for a friend in need, if they had the ability and wherewithal. Yes, I understand he has sex with you, but I would put much more stock in the fact he has never once discussed marrying you, and has encouraged you to have kids as a single mom. These are indications he likes the situation as is. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Allupinnit said: This and she doesn't have to do his laundry, put up with his annoying family, smell his morning breath or hear him snore, be the only one to clean out the fridge, maybe he's bad with finances? You know, the real-life humdrum that really takes the shine off sometimes. These types of daily “battles” at this stage of my life, don’t worry me at the tiniest bit. Finances we are not going to merge anyway (he’s not merging his with hers either and never did). Life annoyances- I lived with a partner before and whether he picked his socks or not again was the least of my concerns.. Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 You sound like a very, very smart woman who is used to logically figuring out problems and overcoming obstacles. But affairs and relationships aren’t always driven by logic. Plus, you think you understand his logic, but I don’t think you have the whole picture. You would really need his side of things to understand his logic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: It sounds like you need a best friend - these are things any good friend would do for a friend in need, if they had the ability and wherewithal. Yes, I understand he has sex with you, but I would put much more stock in the fact he has never once discussed marrying you, and has encouraged you to have kids as a single mom. These are indications he likes the situation as is. He IS my best friend. We started as friends and anything else is just a cherry on the cake. Im not sure whether the idea he encouraged me to have kids as a single mom started - it’s absolutely not the case, I never expressed desire to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: You don't think that's PRESSURE to him? I haven’t even shared this with him until very recently (3 weeks ago to be exact) Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: You sound like a very, very smart woman who is used to logically figuring out problems and overcoming obstacles. But affairs and relationships aren’t always driven by logic. Plus, you think you understand his logic, but I don’t think you have the whole picture. You would really need his side of things to understand his logic. You are very right I’m filling the gaps for him… I hope to gain clarity over the long weekend, if nothing else… Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: He IS my best friend. We started as friends and anything else is just a cherry on the cake. Im not sure whether the idea he encouraged me to have kids as a single mom started - it’s absolutely not the case, I never expressed desire to do so. I thought he told you to have children now if you want them? Or maybe he encouraged you to have kids now with him as a partner, just under the current unmarried circumstances? If I misunderstood, I apologize 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: We started as friends and anything else is just a cherry on the cake Maybe you should consider accepting that this is as good as it gets. We don’t all get the cherry on top in life. In fact, most of us don’t. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 He may be a totally crap person to live with and a lazy father, leaving everything up to you. Those "lovey" feelings grow stale real quick when you realize just how incompatible you can be even as roommates. He can't even divorce his wife to be with you. You have it all mapped in your woman brain out how you're going to break them up and have a family and he's basically fine with your being a single mom. You don't know anything about him, really. If you want kids then a married man is your worst bet and we women can't waste years - he's not the least bit concerned. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: He may be a totally crap person to live with and a lazy father, leaving everything up to you. Those "lovey" feelings grow stale real quick when you realize just how incompatible you can be even as roommates. He can't even divorce his wife to be with you. You have it all mapped in your woman brain out how you're going to break them up and have a family and he's basically fine with your being a single mom. You don't know anything about him, really. If you want kids then a married man is your worst bet and we women can't waste years - he's not the least bit concerned. You know, I facilitated all this big time. I claimed I have enough medical tricks in my sleeve to "slow down the clock" but then I didn't share with him that the process has cost me an arm and a leg, it's not 100% guarantee no matter what, and that I am scared of the social aspect of being an elderly mom, not only the physical one. I played strong and it bites me in the b*** Link to post Share on other sites
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