It's complicated - insight needed

[stillafool]

42 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Expat - this was literally my main reason to start the thread - I was looking for someone in a similar situation, because I thought it is highly unusual "wife" to never be mentioned, despite of us spending all this time together, being close to each other's family and friends etc.

Tam this isn't unusual at all.  Most mistresses do know that their MM are actually married; but the MM rarely talks about his wife and family when with the OW.  Why would he?  First it's none of her business and second OW don't want to spend her time with him talking about his wife.  I completely understand his point of now wanting to discuss his marital life with you but may I ask - why would you want to know instead of enjoying all the time he spends with you?  Why do you need to know about his wife?

Edited November 24, 2021 by stillafool

[TamBuktu]

8 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Tam this isn't unusual at all.  Most mistresses do know that their MM are actually married; but the MM rarely talks about his wife and family when with the OW.  Why would he?  First it's none of her business and second OW don't want to spend her time with him talking about his wife.  

I find it unusual because he literally never mentions her, in front of others too, or makes it vague like if someone asks what is HerName doing he'll say something like "same old, same old" and change the topic. I mentioned we were friends before dating, for a couple of years. I've seen him doing it in front of other people - it was the same thing - he'd for example talk about how he spends Christmas with his siblings, wife wasn't mentioned at all. At this point (this was 4-5 years ago) i suspected he's separated but then he was wearing a ring daily back then. You don't think that's bizarre behaviour?

Edited November 24, 2021 by TamBuktu

[stillafool]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I find it unusual because he literally never mentions her, in front of others too, or makes it vague like if someone asks what is HerName doing he'll say something like "same old, same old" and change the topic. I mentioned we were friends before dating, for a couple of years. I've seen him doing it in front of other people - it was the same thing - he'd for example talk about how he spends Christmas with his siblings, wife wasn't mentioned at all. At this point (this was 4-5 years ago) i suspected he's separated but then he was wearing a ring daily back then. You don't think that's bizarre behaviour?

Absolutely not.  If I were engaged in an affair the last thing I would mention or talk about is my husband.  MM may think he is showing you respect by not bringing her up.  This is common.

Edited November 24, 2021 by stillafool

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Absolutely not.  If I were engaged in an affair the last thing I would mention or talk about is my husband.  MM may think he is showing you respect by not bringing her up.  This is common.

Right, my point was it was the same before the affair and with unrelated people.

On your question why I want to know more- I guess I’m trying to validate my hypothesis that they’re not close, and weigh my options.

[anika99]

18 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Deep in my heart I see him as the caring father I never had,

Hmm, interesting. He wants a mommy figure, you want a daddy figure. He can fulfill your needs for a daddy as long as he has a mommy at home (wife). Deep in his heart his wife is meeting his core need. With you he gets to enjoy feeling admired and needed, but you don't fill the needs his wife fills. 

[BaileyB]

59 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Why he keeps this part of his life "dark"? I have several hypotheses, some of which you yourself suggested
- doesn't want to be questioned
- is done with her but not ready to move forward with me
- is ashamed of the real situation
- feels intense guilt or shame
- is "saving" me from something he knows will make me feel uncomfortable
Or something else, who knows

His unwillingness to discuss what is a pretty basic fact that you have the right to know as the women who is in a relationship/having sex with him is not helping you or protecting you. If anything, he is hurting you by keeping the truth from you and allowing you to make an informed decision for yourself. Or should I say, you are hurting yourself by staying with a man who doesn’t respect or value you enough to be honest with you. 

He is a pretty typical married man in that he wants to keep the good times rolling as long as he can… If he spoke the truth, you may become uncomfortable and/or you may chose to make a different decision for yourself. That’s all. He is protecting his best interest, not yours. 

You are on a need to know basis and this important fact, he doesn’t think that you need to know. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I guess I’m trying to validate my hypothesis that they’re not close

You have no way to validate your hypothesis. You can watching his behavior but desire everything you observe or he says, the fact that he has yet to file for divorce tells you everything you need to know. That is the bottom line - they can be “not close” and still be committed to each other in marriage. 

[anika99]

22 hours ago, stillafool said:

The PI will tell you whether they are legally married or not.  Yes it matters because if they aren't it will be a lot less difficult for him to come to you.  Of course her being only a GF versus a wife makes it easier.  No legal tanglements.  You guys can just be together.  Easy peasy.

See I view this totally opposite. If the MM  isn't even actually married I take that as a sign that he really has no desire  to be in a long term legitimate relationship. He's been in this affair for 3 years, has never even mentioned wanting to leave and marry the OP when it would have been so easy for him. The only reason he has kept OP as his side piece for so long is because that's all he wants her to be in his life. Her role in his life is to meet his sexual needs and to have his ego stroked by having this younger woman who needs him, looks up to him and admires him. 

[stillafool]

9 minutes ago, anika99 said:

See I view this totally opposite. If the MM  isn't even actually married I take that as a sign that he really has no desire  to be in a long term legitimate relationship. He's been in this affair for 3 years, has never even mentioned wanting to leave and marry the OP when it would have been so easy for him. The only reason he has kept OP as his side piece for so long is because that's all he wants her to be in his life. Her role in his life is to meet his sexual needs and to have his ego stroked by having this younger woman who needs him, looks up to him and admires him. 

Oh I completely agree with you.  OP seem hell bent to find out all of a sudden if he is legally married or not.  So I told her there is a way to find out what is true.  Also if she were to find out he is in fact not married there is no good reason that he can't be with her other than he doesn't want to.

Edited November 24, 2021 by stillafool

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

he's married AND something has stopped him from leaving her for good.

He never started "leaving her for good", did he?

[czanclus]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

On your question why I want to know more- I guess I’m trying to validate my hypothesis that they’re not close, and weigh my options.

Alright, what do you got so far? (I'm very similar in thinking through scenarios from sometimes a mere seed of hypothetical, and at this age cannot bother to apologize to what in my mind are mindless drifters who deem any level of thought beyond the basic if-then as 'overthinking' - you do you.) But, lay it out. If they are close, if what he's giving you is the pinnacle of what you'll get, then what? If they are not close, would it not suffice to have his actions on the plan you lay out in the next, say, couple of months, be the testament to the fact? Can this 'wife/mother figure' fit into yall's lives in any capacity or do you want her out entirely, all with a 'good luck and best wishes' farewell card? How's the algorithm looking so far? 🙂

[stillafool]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

The worst thing that might happen is he will not say anything or deflect the topic.

Because you let him get away with this.  I would not, I would demand a direct answer or he could go kick rocks.  TBH Tam you knew the man was married when you got involved with him.  So to what purpose would you want to hear about his wife?  What do you want him to say?  It's disrespectful to his wife to discuss her with you or anyone in your presence since he's having sex with you behind her back.    I can't imagine why you'd want to hear her name either, don't you at least feel some guilt for having sex with this woman's husband?  You actually know her.  How deep do you want to drive this knife into her back?

[Allupinnit]

OP how do you feel about tomorrow being Thanksgiving and he's spending it w her and not you?  You can speculate all you want about his relationship with his wife but his actions are telling you he's good with the status quo.  How incredibly painful and lonely that the guy you want to be with and have a family with, is spending the holidays with someone else (his wife).  

Why do you want to waste your baby-making years on THIS guy?!  He will never be yours.  I know it takes some time for your head to catch up with your heart but this really seems all rather crazy.  Replaying every interaction where he didn't say this or that to see how "committed" he is, when you could just straight up ask him yourself.  

[RebeccaR]

Tam, if he responds to mother figures, maybe he is waiting for you to give him instructions on moving your relationship forward. You don’t want to pressure him because you want him to decide on his own; but maybe he needs a mother figure to give him a push. In this scenario, you would need to be the mother figure. Does this sound like a role you can play?

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

The worst thing that might happen is he will not say anything or deflect the topic.

Hasn't that been happening all along, hence the "research", speculation about his wife, marriage, whereabouts, intentions, etc.?

[introverted1]

3 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I was looking for someone in a similar situation, because I thought it is highly unusual "wife" to never be mentioned, despite of us spending all this time together, being close to each other's family and friends etc.

Have you read the thread "after 2 years, he's married"?  The MM there dated his OW and never let on that he was married at all.  It does not appear that he plans to leave his wife, either. while not all MM go to this extreme, it's a rare one who talks about his wife.  Mostly, they like to pretend that the wife does not exist while they are with their OW.  It helps keep the fantasy going.

I think you have grossly over-simplified the reason(s) your MM got married, placing the "blame" for this decision on his wife.  You consistently assume she is too old for sex or any sort of real life, she is just waiting around to fall apart and die. 

In 61 pages (this length is due mostly due to your reluctance to share actual details as propensity for walking back the few details you do share) I see nothing to suggest that this guy plans to leave his wife, regardless how little you value his marriage.  For reasons you either don't know or don't want to share, he is committed to her on some level. In that respect, this affair is no different than countless others on this board:  OW hoping her MM will recognize her value and choose her over the wife he is married to. I am not sure why you think your ending will be any different, particularly as he has made no move to change the status quo.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Because you let him get away with this.  I would not, I would demand a direct answer or he could go kick rocks. 

Amen!

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Tam you knew the man was married when you got involved with him.  So to what purpose would you want to hear about his wife?  What do you want him to say?

She wants him to say that he is leaving her and choosing Tam. Like most OW on this site, she knew he was married but she chose to disregard that fact - assuming that he would make a different decision when he realized what a “special connection” they share together. Except now, it’s three years later and he STILL hasn’t left! She only wants to hear about the wife in the context of “we are not close” and “I’m going to leave.” And, since neither of those things may be true - the only logical explanation after three years is that they are not true - the only thing he can realistically do is avoid the subject. And Tam, has graciously allowed him to do that… 

[BaileyB]

11 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

I see nothing to suggest that this guy plans to leave his wife, regardless how little you value his marriage. 

Well said.

He apparently values his marriage - if he didn’t, he would have left a long time ago. Particularly when presented with another option…

Edited November 24, 2021 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, Allupinnit said:

OP how do you feel about tomorrow being Thanksgiving and he's spending it w her and not you?  You can speculate all you want about his relationship with his wife but his actions are telling you he's good with the status quo.  How incredibly painful and lonely that the guy you want to be with and have a family with, is spending the holidays with someone else (his wife).  

Why do you want to waste your baby-making years on THIS guy?!  He will never be yours.  I know it takes some time for your head to catch up with your heart but this really seems all rather crazy.  Replaying every interaction where he didn't say this or that to see how "committed" he is, when you could just straight up ask him yourself.  

We are spending it together, thank God. Like every other major holiday, like Christmas, Valentines, our birthdays etc. If he was spending it elsewhere, I might have called it quits long time ago. I actually think it's a good occasion for heart to heart talk...

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Well said.

He apparently values his marriage more than you would like to acknowledge Tam - or he would have left a long time ago, especially when presented with another option.

There is something I haven't really been sharing because, well, I didn't fully believe him when he said it. He claims there is something (legal; past; not good) she is holding him with, and also is afraid of violence if she's forced out. The only reason I'm not bringing it to the discussion is because it will raise a slew of speculations... and I'm not fully convinced it's not just a deflection strategy (which I frankly hope it is, the alternative is much grimmer).

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

Tam, if he responds to mother figures, maybe he is waiting for you to give him instructions on moving your relationship forward. You don’t want to pressure him because you want him to decide on his own; but maybe he needs a mother figure to give him a push. In this scenario, you would need to be the mother figure. Does this sound like a role you can play?

I think so too. I am not sure how can I fill this role, unless I have a literal living child with him. I can't be a mommy for a grown man, and I probably have somewhat of daddy issues like people pointed out.

Taking this softly thought, I can try giving him instructions to see how he responds. It's something way out of my comfort zone but will be a very interesting experiment.

[BaileyB]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

We are spending it together, thank God. Like every other major holiday, like Christmas, Valentines, our birthdays etc. If he was spending it elsewhere, I might have called it quits long time ago. I actually think it's a good occasion for heart to heart talk...

You have been having a lot of heart to heart discussions recently - how’s that going for you? They have, by your own words, left you needing to collect your thoughts and allow him some time to settle down. So - how thrilled do you think he will be when you bring this topic up again on Thanksgiving? And, how is it going to be any different than your previous attempts that he had managed to evade?

Perhaps this is a marriage of convenience, why else would a woman allow her partner to miss holidays as described. Which makes it even more bizarre why he hasn’t actually chosen to be with you Tam - 

[stillafool]

8 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Amen!

She wants him to say that he is leaving her and choosing Tam. Like most OW on this site, she knew he was married but she chose to disregard that fact - assuming that he would make a different decision when he realized what a “special connection” they share together. Except now, it’s three years later and he STILL hasn’t left! She only wants to hear about the wife in the context of “we are not close” and “I’m going to leave.” And, since neither of those things may be true - the only logical explanation after three years is that they are not true - the only thing he can realistically do is avoid the subject. And Tam, has graciously allowed him to do that… 

Also I think Tam is jealous of the wife because she sees or hears no reaction from her.  She wonders why the wife hasn't gotten upset and kicked him out so he can be with her.  Because the wife isn't upset Tam is wondering why and also why he goes home to her at night.  This man doesn't want to talk about his wife because she is his real life and he's very good at keeping Tam arms length when it comes to his wife and home life.  He's careful not to mix his fantazy life with his real life.  I think if Tam wants to continue with him she is going to have to learn her place in this affair.

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

There is something I haven't really been sharing because, well, I didn't fully believe him when he said it. He claims there is something (legal; past; not good) she is holding him with, and also is afraid of violence if she's forced out. The only reason I'm not bringing it to the discussion is because it will raise a slew of speculations... and I'm not fully convinced it's not just a deflection strategy (which I frankly hope it is, the alternative is much grimmer).

You say “deflection” but that would actually be a “lie”. You concede there’s a very good chance he’s flat-out lying to you.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Hasn't that been happening all along, hence the "research", speculation about his wife, marriage, whereabouts, intentions, etc.?

Yes, to him that's a lifestyle. I literally told him i don't mind it when he does it with others and i witness it, but with me he can be open and honest. He responded he's so used to double talk etc, sometimes he doesn't even know why he's doing it. I tend to believe him...