It's complicated - insight needed

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

 He claims there is something (legal; past; not good) she is holding him with, and also is afraid of violence if she's forced out. 

You don't believe this story do you? He never said he's leaving or divorcing, you claim the words 'wife, marriage and divorce' are taboo and forbidden topics. Are you changing the story now that he would get divorced but now claims he can't "force her out" (not legal) and she will get a hitman after him?  

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You don't believe this story do you? He never said he's leaving or divorcing, you claim the words 'wife, marriage and divorce' are taboo and forbidden topics. Are you changing the story now that he would get divorced but now claims he can't "force her out" (not legal) and she will get a hitman after him?  

If you read few pages back, he said “he’s going to do something about it” and “I know he wants to be with me, right?” but “dark side is really dark” and “he’ll tell me when I’m ready”. Do I believe it? Not really. Does he believe it? That’s the million dollar question 

[RebeccaR]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Does he believe it? That’s the million dollar question 

If he believes it, he won’t leave (because he’s delusional and afraid). If he doesn’t believe it, he still won’t leave, because he chooses not to. How can it be the million dollar question when the result is the same, regardless if the answer is yes or no??? Tam - please help yourself and see this for what it really is.

[Wiseman2]

9 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

“he’ll tell me when I’m ready”. Do I believe it? Not really. Does he believe it? That’s the million dollar question 

It's hard to believe that he is supposedly a scientist with several degrees (or is that a lie too?) and his wife will beat him up, take a hit out on him or blackmail him?

That is the best married man excuse yet: "My wife will blackmail me and there will be violence".

Yet he's at your place every holiday. And she knows nothing about his whereabouts? But will have him killed if he tries to divorce? 

 Is it possible he has a psychotic disorder? The odd language, the paranoid delusions, etc.?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Wiseman2

[TamBuktu]

Just now, RebeccaR said:

If he believes it, he won’t leave (because he’s delusional and afraid). If he doesn’t believe it, he still won’t leave, because he chooses not to. How can it be the million dollar question when the result is the same, regardless if the answer is yes or no??? Tam - please help yourself and see this for what it really is.

Well whether he’ll leave remains to be seen. My attitude will change depending on the answer of the question… 

[Starswillshine]

I don't understand how we got from, he is married. To maybe, he isn't actually married because he NEVER mentions the wife or his marriage. To him mentioning that he can't leave because his wife is a danger. 

The contradictions are crazy. 

[stillafool]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's hard to believe that he is supposedly a scientist with several degrees (or is that a lie too?) and his wife will beat him up, take a hit out on him or blackmail him?

That is the best married man excuse yet: "My wife will blackmail me and there will be violence".

Yet he's at your place every holiday. And she knows nothing about his whereabouts? But will have him killed if he tries to divorce? 

 Is it possible he has a psychotic disorder? The odd language, the paranoid delusions, etc.?

I agree, with him being at Tam's every night I'm surprised her family hit squad hasn't come over there and  beat up both of them up.  Doesn't add up or make sense.  Probably not true.

Edited November 24, 2021 by stillafool

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's hard to believe that he is supposedly a scientist with several degrees (or is that a lie too?) and his wife will beat him up, take a hit out on him or blackmail him?

That is the best married man excuse yet: "My wife will blackmail me and there will be violence".

Yet he's at your place every holiday. And she knows nothing about his whereabouts? But will have him killed if he tries to divorce? 

 Is it possible he has a psychotic disorder? The odd language, the paranoid delusions, etc.?

Well I'm the one with the larger degree collection and see, it didn't help me at all in relational sense lol.

I also started the thread assuming she's aware abut us and that's their agreement  - he's free, but not "free". People here had a consensus that can't be true, so I dropped that. Now we are getting back on "she's aware"? I am confused with that, very confused.

It's either the best excuse yet or the darkest situation I faced, and I faced many. Whether he (or I, or her, or all of the above) have a mental condition - who knows, on the surface we are very normal people, when you dig deeper weird things come to the surface though... 

 

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I agree, with him being at Tam's every night I'm surprised her family hit squad hasn't come over there and  beat up both of them up.  Doesn't add up or make sense.  Probably not true.

There is a physical distance (for them) which might explain it.

[TamBuktu]

6 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

I don't understand how we got from, he is married. To maybe, he isn't actually married because he NEVER mentions the wife or his marriage. To him mentioning that he can't leave because his wife is a danger. 

The contradictions are crazy. 

Star, I don't see a contradiction:
- I never questioned the marriage - I questioned if it is legal vs e.g. just religious ceremony, or current  vs e.g. separated but not legally yet.
- from the very beginning I said he never mentions her except with some very obscure words, if absolutely pressured to do it; and also that I have seen her in real life.
- he states someone in her family is a danger which again, I don't really believe but he might (or he might be using it as a gaslighting tactic. I don't know.

[BaileyB]

41 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

That’s where love comes about - no judgement of the other’s flaws and working within their zone of comfort.

Again - the “unconditional love” argument that is offered by many to explain any number of codependent behaviors or as another poster said, decisions that need to be justified when all other logic has gone out the window. 

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I guess I’m trying to validate my hypothesis that they’re not close

With respect, your own hypothesis is irrelevant. 

Whether they're close or not makes no difference because he's still choosing to be with her and not you. 

[basil67]

31 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Star, I don't see a contradiction:
- I never questioned the marriage - I questioned if it is legal vs e.g. just religious ceremony, or current  vs e.g. separated but not legally yet.
- from the very beginning I said he never mentions her except with some very obscure words, if absolutely pressured to do it; and also that I have seen her in real life.
- he states someone in her family is a danger which again, I don't really believe but he might (or he might be using it as a gaslighting tactic. I don't know.

Marriage from religious ceremonies are recognised by law and have been ever since the Church got involved in marriage.  But even if they aren't officially married, it doesn't make leaving more simple.  My partner and I have been defacto for nearly 30 years and our lives are tied in all the ways they would be had we been officially married.  

I thought you said you knew her wife.  Am I confusing you with someone else?

The fact that you don't believe his stories and suspect he's gaslighting you is reason enough to walk away right now.  

[stillafool]

44 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

There is a physical distance (for them) which might explain it.

There's also one for MM but he still comes over.  A hit squad fueled by anger would not blink twice at traveling a long distance.  Besides you said MM is scared of them so he must know this already.

[TamBuktu]

15 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Marriage from religious ceremonies are recognised by law and have been ever since the Church got involved in marriage.  But even if they aren't officially married, it doesn't make leaving more simple.  My partner and I have been defacto for nearly 30 years and our lives are tied in all the ways they would be had we been officially married.  

I thought you said you knew her wife.  Am I confusing you with someone else?

The fact that you don't believe his stories and suspect he's gaslighting you is reason enough to walk away right now.  

That’s exactly my point actually - legal or not, he’s married

Yes, I’ve met her and worked with her on something

I wouldn’t say I suspect it- I’m just making a complete list of possible scenarios. Maybe this will all marinate over the long weekend 

 

 

[TamBuktu]

17 minutes ago, stillafool said:

There's also one for MM but he still comes over.  A hit squad fueled by anger would not blink twice at traveling a long distance.  Besides you said MM is scared of them so he must know this already.

I bet. That’s why I’m thinking BW is aware if everything and that doesn’t violate their agreement, whatever it is, whereas divorce proceedings will turn this all upside down 

[TamBuktu]

26 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

With respect, your own hypothesis is irrelevant. 

Whether they're close or not makes no difference because he's still choosing to be with her and not you. 

It matters to me.

If we want to be accurate- he’s choosing me as well, he makes this choice daily 

[TamBuktu]

55 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Again - the “unconditional love” argument that is offered by many to explain any number of codependent behaviors or as another poster said, decisions that need to be justified when all other logic has gone out the window. 

Isn’t that exactly what love is? What’s left when everything else goes out the window? I’m in a safe situation, and sane enough to make decisions;) The rest is semantics…

Anyway, let see what the long weekend will bring. It will be telling:)

 

[basil67]

My apologies about the confusion regarding whether you've met his wife.  I misread your words.

9 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

That’s exactly my point actually - legal or not, he’s married

So what's the point in searching for a marriage certificate?    

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

My apologies about the confusion regarding whether you've met his wife.  I misread your words.

So what's the point in searching for a marriage certificate?    

I wrote it earlier (people didn’t believe it)- this is my curiosity speaking more than anything. Knowing won’t change anything because the issue, habit/guilt/fear or whatever it is, still remains. 

[stillafool]

30 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

It matters to me.

If we want to be accurate- he’s choosing me as well, he makes this choice daily 

He may be settling for you because as you said yourself - she's never around.

[stillafool]

36 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I bet. That’s why I’m thinking BW is aware if everything and that doesn’t violate their agreement, whatever it is, whereas divorce proceedings will turn this all upside down 

That makes no sense whatsover and I don't believe it.   She doesn't care where he puts his penis but he'd better not divorce her or he'll get killed?  That's almost laughable.  You said she's never around so I doubt she gives a flying egg where he goes.

Edited November 24, 2021 by stillafool

[czanclus]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

There's also one for MM but he still comes over.  A hit squad fueled by anger would not blink twice at traveling a long distance.  Besides you said MM is scared of them so he must know this already.

Whoa, I 'turn around for one second'... the plot quicksands into murder mystery genre. I was once involved with a man who cultivated a huge aura of potentially criminal-level mystique around him, and hmm... that's definitely not daddy material. Not the kind that takes kids to playgrounds, neighborhood pool, and birthday parties for sure... You don't need this, Tam, go solo. Peace of mind and drama-free life is priceless. You can thank me later.

Edited November 24, 2021 by czanclus

[czanclus]

53 minutes ago, stillafool said:

That makes no sense whatsover and I don't believe it.   She doesn't care where he puts his penis but he'd better not divorce her or he'll get killed?  That's almost laughable.  You said she's never around so I doubt she gives a flying egg where he goes.

Well, for certain definitions of 'almost'. I straight up burst into laughter reading this. On point.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

If we want to be accurate- he’s choosing me as well, he makes this choice daily 

Indeed, he is choosing both his wife and you. If this is acceptable for you, continue as you have been. If not, you will at some point need to accept the reality of this situation and make a different decision for yourself.