Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Look he's got what he wants right NOW - he has a lot to lose, too! Otherwise he wouldn't be pushing back on it. Why would he walk away from his arrangement with you AND her? To be a full-time dad at his age with you? He doesn't want that! That ship has sailed for him. That's right. He is going to lose security too, as well as his "good boy" image.. I guess it comes down to morals and fear.. but i see why he waited as long as he possibly could. Whether that ship has sailed (for kids) - his own father had him the same age as he is... It's not impossible, especially with an younger partner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: That's right. He is going to lose security too, as well as his "good boy" image.. I guess it comes down to morals and fear.. but i see why he waited as long as he possibly could. Whether that ship has sailed (for kids) - his own father had him the same age as he is... It's not impossible, especially with an younger partner. Well no it's not impossible, he just doesn't want it. If you keep pushing him like this he's going to grow to resent you. You take one little lie he tells you and run with it to the point of wanting to call the cops for him and having his baby! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Well no it's not impossible, he just doesn't want it. If you keep pushing him like this he's going to grow to resent you. You take one little lie he tells you and run with it to the point of wanting to call the cops for him and having his baby! Well he wants it enough to go through fertility treatment.. I hope I'm wrong about it but I even suspect that's why he got involved with me to start with... Or at least it was one of the strongest motivating factors. His narrative now is "because I want it" but we both know that's games and justifying poor decisions from his past (his current wife isn't the one I'm referring to, another person before her smashed his desires for kids in "normal" age.. he wanted to be with her real bad and she had hysterectomy to put the long story short). Now, calling a threat for abuse a "one little lie" is dangerous thinking. Having been through quite a few abusive situations myself (where nobody called the cops because they mind their own business and "hey, the girl survived anyway") makes me very sensitive to topics like this. I better call the cops for a false claim or hyperbolizing then to visit him in a hospital or worse. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Yes I agree that lying about abuse is egregious, but it seems he walked that back. Seems like he'd rather put up with the abuse and stay where he's at than leave her and have a baby with you. Do you enjoy being with a spineless man who lets all the women in his life dictate his fate? Seriously it's everyone else's fault? Victim mentality is never attractive. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Yes I agree that lying about abuse is egregious, but it seems he walked that back. Seems like he'd rather put up with the abuse and stay where he's at than leave her and have a baby with you. Do you enjoy being with a spineless man who lets all the women in his life dictate his fate? Seriously it's everyone else's fault? Victim mentality is never attractive. It's not, I know. I just see more dimensions of his personality than that particular aspect of it. Also, I have some insights why he's that way, and that makes it easier for me to accept him as is. As mentioned my past wasn't particularly peachy and it is affecting me in ways that even as of today I can't fully control. In a way, I see his "spinelessness" as a similar byproduct of his past/present and I'm just accepting it and working with what we've got and not against it. Edited January 7, 2022 by TamBuktu Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Well - I mean your heart is set on this path so best of luck to you prying him away from his wife. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: You didn't answer my question can she claim alimony or anything considering there is NO property acquired after marriage with her name on it? Yes, if she is not working and he is working, he will owe her spousal support. The amount will depend on many things, not the least of which being the amount of time they have been married. The longer he stays, the more he will pay. I know that from experience. I agree with what was said above - she will get what she is entitled to get (as will he), based on the law. You can not manipulate this situation - the law will determine how this divorce is settled. 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: my question is: is cheating complicating factor for a divorce? Not in many jurisdictions. Of course, it will depends on the law where you live. But, in many places adultery is of no relavence at all in a divorce proceeding. Edited January 7, 2022 by BaileyB 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: Yes, if she is not working and he is working, he will owe her spousal support. The amount will depend on many things, not the least of which being the amount of time they have been married. The longer he stays, the more he will pay. I know that from experience. I agree with what was said above - she will get what she is entitled to get (as will he), based on the law. You can not manipulate this situation - the law will determine how this divorce is settled. Not in many jurisdictions. Of course, it will depends on the law where you live. But, in many places adultery is of no relavence at all in a divorce proceeding. They are both working but their incomes are vastly different. Yes, I hear you for the longer he stays the more he pays part. From your experience, is the alimony for a given period commensurate with length of the marriage? He keeps talking about common law rules for occupancy - I know when she moved in his house and it's well over 10 years - is that a thing? I am really not familiar with the law here.. I know the goal is uncontested divorce which will be obviously ideal but I don't know if possible. I'd have contested for sure if a spouse was cheating on me... I'm not worried that much about losing money, I'm more worried she'll drag this on and on even out of spite (and I can't blame her, I'd have probably done the same if I was in her shoes). And I really really want to get pregnant but can't/won't do it before the divorce is complete. The thought of dragged out divorce terrifies me. I just realized his own sister filed over 5 years ago and STILL haven't finalized her divorce for whatever reason... her (ex) husband is nowhere to be seen but they're doing nothing about it. So the indecisiveness runs in his family yuck Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: From your experience, is the alimony for a given period commensurate with length of the marriage? Yes, that was my experience. My partner thought about staying in his marriage until his child finished school and his lawyer advised him that the longer he stayed, the more he would owe his spouse in spousal support. Separate from child support and the division of their marital assets. 27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: He keeps talking about common law rules for occupancy - I know when she moved in his house and it's well over 10 years - is that a thing? I am really not familiar with the law here.. It’s time to consult a lawyer. He is not a lawyer, I would not trust anything he says to be true. 27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I know the goal is uncontested divorce which will be obviously ideal but I don't know if possible. I'd have contested for sure if a spouse was cheating on me... A quick google search will show you which states do not permit an individual seeking divorce to allege a fault-based ground (e.g. adultery, abandonment, or cruelty). It’s not a question of whether you want to/don’t want to contest a divorce. Adulatory is not considered when settling divorce settlements in many states. 27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I just realized his own sister filed over 5 years ago and STILL haven't finalized her divorce for whatever reason... her (ex) husband is nowhere to be seen but they're doing nothing about it. It’s not settled because they haven’t decided to settle their divorce. People who are motivated to divorce and move on with their lives settle their divorce… Of course, divorce is difficult, expensive, and it takes time. But, you are creating problems where none exist. If he wanted to divorce this woman, he could make an appointment to file next week and be sleeping in your bed that same night. Edited January 7, 2022 by BaileyB 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Yes, that was my experience. My partner thought about staying in his marriage until his child finished school and his lawyer advised him that the longer he stayed, the more he would owe his spouse in spousal support. Separate from child support and the division of their marital assets. It’s time to consult a lawyer. He is not a lawyer, I would not trust anything he says to be true. A quick google search will show you which states do not permit an individual seeking divorce to allege a fault-based ground (e.g. adultery, abandonment, or cruelty). It’s not a question of whether you want to/don’t want to contest a divorce. Adulatory is not considered when settling divorce settlements in many states. It’s not settled because they haven’t decided to settle their divorce. People who are motivated to divorce and move on with their lives settle their divorce… Of course, divorce is difficult, expensive, and it takes time. But, you are creating problems where none exist. If he wanted to divorce this woman, he could make an appointment to file next week and be sleeping in your bed that same night. Thanks. I need to check the laws in our state for length of marriage. My quick google search says "Adultery is a fault-based ground for divorce" at our state and court will grant divorce based on proof of adultery (from the BS). I am not sure how/if this affect us - if she's filing seems like it will make things faster, if he is filing - I can't figure it out.Lol if you know him you'd know that's not how his brain works.. His sister too, said something she's even not aware if X who she's married to (filed divorce 2015 but never finalized it) is alive or dead but she doesn't care.. I am fully on board with you that's a horrible way to live but then I guess in our case I've been enabling it:/ Edited January 7, 2022 by TamBuktu Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: My quick google search says "Adultery is a fault-based ground for divorce" at our state and court will grant divorce based on proof of adultery (from the BS). Well then, unless he plans to stay married to the woman forever he will have to face the consequences of his actions. It doesn’t seem like he is willing to do that, given his intention to wait passively with the hope that she will somehow find another man and/or decide to divorce him and “set him free.” You can make all the excuses you want Tam, this is a cowardly way for a grown man to live his life. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Tam, So are you feeling encouraged by the recent developments? They don’t seem very promising from where I (or many other posters) sit, but you seem somewhat resistant to this perspective. M. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Allupinnit Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: Well then, unless he plans to stay married to the woman forever he will have to face the consequences of his actions. It doesn’t seem like he is willing to do that, given his intention to wait passively with the hope that she will somehow find another man and/or decide to divorce him and “set him free.” You can make all the excuses you want Tam, this is a cowardly way for a grown man to live his life. It seems she doesn't care about his being a coward and is also willing to do the heavy lifting for him to do what she wants. She UNDERSTANDS him. 🙃 Tam if nobody cares where he's at why does he go home at night? 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 22 hours ago, TamBuktu said: -We brought up the kids topic very seriously. Now he was on the fence because he'll be "70 and with a walker" at their college graduation. I asked is he sure he wants kids. Sorry he doesn't want children but you do. You still have unfertilized ova so when you meet a single man who loves and respects you and wants what you want (marriage and family) you still have those options. More and more this cheater is proving that his promises are written on the wind and you will be hurt (even more) in the end. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, Minneloa said: Tam, So are you feeling encouraged by the recent developments? They don’t seem very promising from where I (or many other posters) sit, but you seem somewhat resistant to this perspective. M. I do feel encouraged, the reason is I was probably expecting worse - him to leave, ignore completely or be completely resistant to change. I feel like an year ago he'd have been in that mindset, so I was actually pleasantly surprised the above didn't happen. On the Allpunit question: "Tam if nobody cares where he's at why does he go home at night? " I personally don't think he's "tracked" or anyone will do anything but that's what he chose to believe. It is something I even told him. Still it does make sense to me that he's somewhat expected to go home unless they are completely separated, sure he could have faked a trip here and there if he wanted to but I don't think this would have been doing me any service anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Sorry he doesn't want children but you do. You still have unfertilized ova so when you meet a single man who loves and respects you and wants what you want (marriage and family) you still have those options. More and more this cheater is proving that his promises are written on the wind and you will be hurt (even more) in the end. Just based on my gut intuition he'd be very happy with kids. We shall see. Unfertilized eggs: I do have a number of these. Sadly, from all I know and have seen over the years, it's no guarantee because of thawing and other issues, so that's literally last resort option, rather than desirable, from a purely practical point of view... And really my motivation to start over at mid30s while having someone that I click with is very low... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Allupinnit said: Tam if nobody cares where he's at why does he go home at night? Nobody cares where he is or what he does during the day because it supports her narrative that the marriage is “toast” and it’s only a matter of time until he is divorced and available to live happily ever after with her. At the same time, she needs the narrative that the wife does actually care because it is the only reason why he chooses to go home every night to his wife and not stay with her - because he is required by the wife to do so. Tam argues both sides whenever it’s convenient for her. 7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I personally don't think he's "tracked" or anyone will do anything but that's what he chose to believe. And then, she blame shifts when it’s pointed out that it’s illogical. SHE understands that it’s illogical, it’s just that HE believes this, he is unreasonably paranoid, she has tried to explain this to him… Edited January 7, 2022 by BaileyB 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites
IrinaM Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Quote I'm considering another ivf cycle soon so can't be a lip service... "another ivf" ? you've never had ivf, according to earlier posts. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: Well then, unless he plans to stay married to the woman forever he will have to face the consequences of his actions. It doesn’t seem like he is willing to do that, given his intention to wait passively with the hope that she will somehow find another man and/or decide to divorce him and “set him free.” You can make all the excuses you want Tam, this is a cowardly way for a grown man to live his life. Yeah he has to, and to an extent, he is already facing (some) consequences.. He said something like "we shouldn't have started when I wasn't ready"... well, hopefully now he's ready.. I agree with you I'm enabling if you want to call if cowardish behavior but what else to do? Me calling it out won't help, and I think he's aware of it anyway.. I am going to bring someone in to facilitate the discussion. I avoided this for long but he gave me permission to do it. I'm not sure if it is a good idea but that's all I can come up with, at that point of time. Open to other ideas too (just not "dump that coward" type of ideas lol) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, IrinaM said: "another ivf" ? you've never had ivf, according to earlier posts. IVF has 3 parts - stimulation/retrieval, culturing of embryos (to freeze point) and then transferring them back. Only thing that I haven't done is transfer. Bt that's the non-time sensitive part of the process. If you stop after retrieval - you have frozen oocytes, if you stop after culture - frozen embryos. All that matters is the age of the woman at retrieval, otherwise frozen oocytes and embryos can be cryostored for decades. Edited January 7, 2022 by TamBuktu Adding info Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, BaileyB said: Nobody cares where he is or what he does during the day because it supports her narrative that the marriage is “toast” and it’s only a matter of time until he is divorced and available to live happily ever after with her. At the same time, she needs the narrative that the wife does actually care because it is the only reason why he chooses to go home every night to his wife and not stay with her - because he is required by the wife to do so. Tam argues both sides whenever it’s convenient for her. And then, she blame shifts when it’s pointed out that it’s illogical. SHE understands that it’s illogical, it’s just that HE believes this, he is unreasonably paranoid, she has tried to explain this to him… Lol I don't know where do you see contradictions but whatever. In his world "he does what the woman orders" and he lives by that rule regardless of whos' the woman is. If she tells him to do something, he does, if I tell him - he does too. It's that plain and simple. Is it illogical - whatever. It's not MY behavior. I can ask him to stay over if this was going to change something but I don't see how it will. I have asked him previously to come over during the night (after midnight) and he never said no. But that's not the point. He has to confront her not avoid her and that's where he is super resistant. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: In his world "he does what the woman orders" and he lives by that rule regardless of whos' the woman is. In that case, you are foolish to trust this man. If he lacks self determination and he does whatever his wife asks - you are going to be waiting a long time for that divorce… 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ufo8mycat Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 4 hours ago, TamBuktu said: Well he wants it enough to go through fertility treatment.. You don’t have to answer as I know I this very personal but everything in this thread indicates you are going through fertility treatment. You are having eggs harvested and frozen and you are paying for it. how is he doing fertility treatment? Until the day comes for him to hand over sperm, he isn’t actually doing anything. You are. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, ufo8mycat said: You don’t have to answer as I know I this very personal but everything in this thread indicates you are going through fertility treatment. You are having eggs harvested and frozen and you are paying for it. how is he doing fertility treatment? Until the day comes for him to hand over sperm, he isn’t actually doing anything. You are. He is- of course it is on me to go through stims, retrievals etc but we did fertilize some a while ago and I want to do it again. I'd always keep frozen eggs too if worse comes to worse, at this age I have such a fertility paranoia that I am going to diversify any way I can.. And yes, cost is on me and it has been high five figures so far but the ease of mind that I don't have to "trap" a husband asap and can take my time in this relationship (or another one if worse comes to worse) is priceless Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 33 minutes ago, BaileyB said: In that case, you are foolish to trust this man. If he lacks self determination and he does whatever his wife asks - you are going to be waiting a long time for that divorce… But remember it goes both ways - I just haven't been doing the asking so far, mainly because of fear and to some extent - feeling I am demasculinizing him. However - if that's what he needs (and apparently that's what he needs by his actions) - i can be the one putting demands too, it's no longer just her. Yes, it's an awful way to lead a relationship and yes, we'd need to work it out through therapy at a later point, but at the moment I feel like if I don't go with the flow we have no chance - like you said he'd wait for her to file which might never happen. In retrospect the biggest red flag in the beginning was when he told me that he has never broken a relationship, instead he provoked the women to do it. I though it's quite funny back then and now I am living the consequences of this behavior 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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