It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, introverted1 said:

This is completely UNTRUE.

That works out to a 98.5% chance of a genetically normal baby at age 40.

 

Introverted - it's not how I calculate it and here is why:
- just do a search "aneuploidy by maternal age" - at 35 aneuploidy (wrong number of chromosomes) prevails in 50% of formed embryos, at 40 - in 90%
-the discrepancy with the numbers that you cite is because the majority of these embryos either never implant, or result in biochemical pregnancy loss before the woman even have a missed period
-only few aneuploidies (like trisomy 13, 18, 21, turners) can result in ongoing pregnancy and birth - and therefore the 1:192 and 1:50 numbers that you cited
 

[Estes]

50 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Quote got messed up and I can’t seem to fix it but as far as him “kicking her butt out” as you so callously put it- 

She has as much right to live there as he does. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Estes

[BaileyB]

21 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

So the way how he presented it now is that he is worried about his age but more worried about the chance never to become a father. 

Convenient. 🙄

27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

There is someone in his house that calls herself a wife, regardless of whether they are married or common law. 

Please. I know there are those who question whether he is truly married or not, the fact is - he’s not proposing or living with you. They are together, goodness knows why, and that is a problem for you. 

27 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

She has been there for over a decade and sadly that's easy to track. 

Especially when you can’t trust the man to tell you honestly whether he is legally married or not. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by BaileyB

[Estes]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Especially when you can’t trust the man to tell you honestly whether he is legally married or not. 

Or why he's so reluctant to 'set a precedent" as far as staying over goes.

 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

Whatever it is sounds like a convenient arrangement for her - she is getting security, and for him - he is getting a title without the commitment...

So if he is gettng from her the title without commitment, he will want the same thing if he married you, plus a new mistress.  Are you willing to give him the title of husband without commitment?

Edited January 9, 2022 by stillafool

[Ha-ha]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

And yes, I am primarily looking for advice how to secure future with him. What is the point otherwise  - to be told it can fail? I know that already. If I am to give an analogy it is like an overweight woman going to a specialized store to get a perfect dress for her and being told well just lose the weight. Most people seeking advice are not here to hear the absolutely obvious (and most negative possible) scenarios.

I believe some posters above have recommended that you go and tell his wife as a way to secure your future with him?  Worth a try!

[introverted1]

43 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Introverted - it's not how I calculate it and here is why:
- just do a search "aneuploidy by maternal age" - at 35 aneuploidy (wrong number of chromosomes) prevails in 50% of formed embryos, at 40 - in 90%
 

Even when searching for "aneupolidy by maternal age" the data is nowhere near as drastic as you make out:

Quote

It is now well established that aneuploidy dramatically increases as women age: the incidence of trisomy in clinically recognized pregnancies remains low in a woman in her 20s, around 2%–3%, but dramatically increases to about 35% in a woman in her 40s

So 65% odds of a genetically healthy baby... much higher, actually, when you factor in that many of the genetically abnormal pregnancies spontaneously abort, resulting in much better odds for those that are carried to term. And that assumes you wait until your 40's.  You are only 37, IIRC, so your odds are even better.  In fact, women have healthy babies in their 30's as a matter of course.  It's nothing unusual.

You seem to frequently distort and misrepresent facts to suit your narrative.  I don't know if this is something you do intentionally, thinking you are fooling us, or if you have truly convinced yourself of the many conflicting (or easily disproven) "facts" you share with us.

The bottom line remains that you are a mistress to a married (or committed) man who has no intention of leaving his primary relationship. It's up to you whether to waste another 3 years hoping he will leave and then decide to become a parent with you.  Both seem extremely unlikely, but if this is the basket in which you choose to place your eggs, so be it.

Good luck.

 

[TamBuktu]

30 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Even when searching for "aneupolidy by maternal age" the data is nowhere near as drastic as you make out:

So 65% odds of a genetically healthy baby... much higher, actually, when you factor in that many of the genetically abnormal pregnancies spontaneously abort, resulting in much better odds for those that are carried to term. And that assumes you wait until your 40's.  You are only 37, IIRC, so your odds are even better.  In fact, women have healthy babies in their 30's as a matter of course.  It's nothing unusual.

You seem to frequently distort and misrepresent facts to suit your narrative.  I don't know if this is something you do intentionally, thinking you are fooling us, or if you have truly convinced yourself of the many conflicting (or easily disproven) "facts" you share with us.

The bottom line remains that you are a mistress to a married (or committed) man who has no intention of leaving his primary relationship. It's up to you whether to waste another 3 years hoping he will leave and then decide to become a parent with you.  Both seem extremely unlikely, but if this is the basket in which you choose to place your eggs, so be it.

Good luck.

 

Sometimes i just can't, Introverted. Let say I have many MANY years of postgraduate training and work in basic biology, do you? Have you done multiple rounds of IVF stimulations and consult others going through the same on daily basis? If not - just take my opinion as a fact, trust me I am very well versed in the fertility space, and won't put false information.

I have never claimed being a relationship expert but one way or another, I have ended in a relationship that works for me. Basically my only intention here is to find people that have been through similar (and yes, there are many of us, otherwise similar forums wouldn't have even existed) and/or are interested in giving friendly factual advice or suggestions how to move forward in a critical stage of it.
 

[TamBuktu]

44 minutes ago, Berlin said:

I believe some posters above have recommended that you go and tell his wife as a way to secure your future with him?  Worth a try!

We have been talking about this recently. He thinks she might lash out so I am keeping it as a last resort, but he is well aware this is something on my mind and I might do it. I will do it with his consent and I am prepared for consequences.. 

Yet I'm not convinced if that's the best path for all parties involved.

[TamBuktu]

54 minutes ago, stillafool said:

So if he is gettng from her the title without commitment, he will want the same thing if he married you, plus a new mistress.  Are you willing to give him the title of husband without commitment?

Right, I am terrified of that possibility. Am I willing to do it? Absolutely not. I want a nuclear family.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, Estes said:

Quote got messed up and I can’t seem to fix it but as far as him “kicking her butt out” as you so callously put it- 

She has as much right to live there as he does. 

He owned that place for many years before they met. She was never on the deed, I have verified. He's the only one having rights over that particular house. 

[poppyfields]

Tam, I DO believe he has had a woman living at the house for however many years, who allows him to roam free like a single man, and who relies on him for maintenance issues.

But how do you know for certain she's his common law wife (since there is no record of him ever being legally married) or even a "girlfriend" (romantically speaking)?

This doesn't sound right, her allowing him to roam about like a single man, a free agent. 

What's in it for him?  A title?  I highly doubt it, most men don't care about titles, not to mention, he could easily leave her and have that title with you, but chooses NOT to. 

The only thing I can think of is that they have this arrangement that for HER gives society the impression she is married (legally or not) which may be important to her, and in turn  she supports him financially.

That makes more sense and if true, good luck expecting him to leave in 4-6 months as he recently promised. 

In any event, something sounds seriously off about the entire situation and I wouldn't count on it progressing. 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by poppyfields

[BaileyB]

34 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

My intention here is to find people that are interested in giving friendly factual advice. 

That is exactly what Introverted has done and you have summarily dismissed the factual information that was offered in a friendly and kind way because it doesn’t support your narrative. 

You claim to be here in search of factual advice, and then ask posters to take your opinion as fact. That’s rather ironic. 

The fact of the matter is that the advanced age of the father also places this  planned pregnancy at higher risk. 

People have given you good advice. Just because it is not the advice that you want to hear does not make it any less valid. 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Tam, I DO believe he has had a woman living at the house for however many years, who allows him to roam free like a single man, and who relies on him for maintenance issues.

But how do you know for certain she's his common law wife (since there is no record of him ever being legally married) or even a "girlfriend" (romantically speaking)?

This doesn't sound right, her allowing him to roam about like a single man, a free agent. 

What's in it for him?  A title?  I highly doubt it, most men don't care about titles, not to mention, he could easily leave her and have that title with you, but chooses NOT to. 

The only thing I can think of is that they have this arrangement that for HER gives society the impression she is married (legally or not) which may be important to her, and in turn  she supports him financially.

That makes more sense and if true, good luck expecting him to leave in 4-6 months as he recently promised. 

In any event, something sounds seriously off about the entire situation.

 

She has referred to him as “husband” on social media and her mother who he took care for (also weird why she didn’t do it herself) referred to “divorce is needed” for 2 of them.. He used to wear a ring and they have some old photos where they have been traveling or visiting people. I know none of this is a 100% proof but what is? 
He definitely makes more than her (4-5 times more) so unless I’m missing something major, can’t be a financial arrangement.

He for some reason needs a “mother” type figure and I think she supported that role.. And they have one common interest I haven’t mentioned here which may explain why they bonded in the past. But overall I think most of this is really that- past.

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

That is exactly what Introverted has done and you have summarily dismissed the factual information that was offered in a friendly and kind way because it doesn’t support your narrative. 

You claim to be here in search of factual advice, and then ask posters to take your opinion as fact. That’s rather ironic. 

People have given you good advice. Just because it is not the advice that you want to hear does not make it any less valid. 

 

I just found most of it very biased. Not by all posters but by many.

I am giving facts to the best of my ability (while trying not to plaster my entire existence over the internet). I get the nature of this but then people start questioning me even on things like medical information etc, which I just find strange.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I am giving facts to the best of my ability but then people start questioning me even on things like medical information etc, which I just find strange.

I understand that you are well educated, but when information is provided that challenges or disproves the statements you have made, you at least owe it to yourself to consider this information before dismissing it and attempting to discredit the poster (by claiming that they don’t have the personal experience that you do).

Edited January 9, 2022 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I understand that you are well educated, but when information is provided that challenges or disproves the statements you have made, you at least owe it to yourself to consider this information before dismissing it and attempting to discredit the poster (by claiming that they don’t have the personal experience that you do).

Sure, I did in my previous post. The issue with fertility information is that is it highly sensitive subject (for me included) and it causes a lot of heartbreak for ones that take it overly optimistic. I can put pubmed links as many as you want.. But the only reason I've been even bringing it up is that I am under pressure (having the information that I know and things I've seen empirically) for getting pregnant, and quite frankly that's the main reason I started "pushing' for relationship resolution maybe a bit. forcefully and prematurely. I know some people commit much faster but that hasn't been a goal of mine, except in this case, we can't postpone forever if we want to be parents. His marriage/relationship of course is a big complicating factor but as some pointed out, his noncommittal personality and his avoidant behavior might be even bigger hurdle in moving forward... At this point I'm toying with the idea to swap the order of events (get pregnant first and hope for the best) although I'm not 100% confident this plan is a good idea.

[Estes]

You've provided a lot of great facts that support your position that his marriage (if even legal) is as good as over, and there are no financial entanglements, and he should just kick her out, and start a new life with you and raise your children together.

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening.

Nothing that you say in regard to his marriage being over and done for all practical purposes, or whether you need another round of IVF matters if he's unwilling to do anything about it.

You're willing to wait for him to make up his mind. At one point you said a year, in yet another you seemed to indicate you'd wait indefinitely. Now you're considering impregnating yourself with an embryo fathered by him even though he waived his paternal rights.

Not one single responder over 74 pages has supported your actions, this thread is more of a debate about how right you are and defending your actions to date.

What are you looking to accomplish here?

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Estes

[TamBuktu]

7 minutes ago, Estes said:

You've provided a lot of great facts that support your position that his marriage (if even legal) is as good as over, and there are no financial entanglements, and he should just kick her out, and start a new life with you and raise your children together.

Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening.

Nothing that you say in regard to his marriage being over and done for all practical purposes, or whether you need another round of IVF matters if he's unwilling to do anything about it.

You're willing to wait for him to make up his mind. At one point you said a year, in yet another you seemed to indicate you'd wait indefinitely. Now you're considering impregnating yourself with an embryo fathered by him even though he waived his paternal rights.

Not one single responder over 74 pages has supported your actions, this thread is more of a debate about how right you are and defending your actions to date.

What are you looking to accomplish here?

 

I was kind of hoping someone to have experienced similar situation but we are in kind of an unusual situation i guess. Especially male perspective, like what else can keep him if we are otherwise on the same page. The simplest explanation is fear and lack of desire to make a change.. Maybe this is what it is.

I will definitely wait the 4-6 months we discussed, my personal timeline was end of this year anyway.

 

[Estes]

9 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I was kind of hoping someone to have experienced similar situation but we are in kind of an unusual situation i guess.

Your situation- being in love and wanting to have a life with a married man whose intentions with you are questionable- is a common theme on this forum and many others.

Unfortunately they rarely result in a happy ending, at least for her.

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

The simplest explanation is fear and lack of desire to make a change..

Don’t underestimate these two things.

As was said above, your experience of wanting to have a life with another individual who is married is very common on this site. More often than not, someone is left disappointed and it’s usually not the married partner who has created the situation to be exactly as they want it! 

If your goal is marriage and family, there are much easier ways that are more likely to bring you success than choosing a married man who has every opportunity to leave his marriage to be with you - and doesn’t. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by BaileyB

[RebeccaR]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

He owned that place for many years before they met. She was never on the deed, I have verified. He's the only one having rights over that particular house. 

In many places, she would be considered a tenant (yes, even a family member not paying rent may legally be considered a tenant) and would have to be legally evicted, which might or might not work. Whether she owns it or not, it’s her home.

[Estes]

5 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Whether she owns it or not, it’s her home.

It would be a long, expensive arduous process requiring at least one court hearing, but ultimately she would probably have to move out- but only pursuant to divorce if they're even married.

If they are married and they do divorce, given that he makes so much more than she does, and given the length of the marriage, he'd probably be on the hook for a chunk of spousal support for potentially a very long time- depending on the laws in their area. He might even owe her part of the appreciation in the home value during the marriage. The loss of assets and support obligation is something that he, and lots of married guys in affairs, want to avoid which is why they strive to maintain the status quo.

 

[TamBuktu]

8 minutes ago, Estes said:

It would be a long, expensive arduous process requiring at least one court hearing, but ultimately she would probably have to move out- but only pursuant to divorce if they're even married.

If they are married and they do divorce, given that he makes so much more than she does, and given the length of the marriage, he'd probably be on the hook for a chunk of spousal support for potentially a very long time- depending on the laws in their area. He might even owe her part of the appreciation in the home value during the marriage. The loss of assets and support obligation is something that he, and lots of married guys in affairs, want to avoid which is why they strive to maintain the status quo.

 

In fact that's exactly what he told me as well - unless she decides to move out by her own will (which he was hoping her to do). She has lived there for a significant chunk of time before their supposed commitment/marriage - so it will put her as a tenant for ~15 years unfortunately. He was referring to something common law related - I might be botching his words, it's really not my field, we have nothing similar in the area where I was born and raised.

He won't give up on that home for sentimental reasons on top of financial ones obviously. She is supposed to retire this year - I'm not sure if that matters legally as well.

Some make it sound he's coasting - yes, he is buying time, but also he is trying to figure out the cleanest possible way out, which in the end will benefit us all (especially if she moves out and pursues a new relationship - I know it's a wishful thinking but that solves literally all problems, financial, moral etc in one go).

Edited January 9, 2022 by TamBuktu

[Estes]

7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

In fact that's exactly what he told me as well - unless she decides to move out by her own will (which he was hoping her to  he is trying to figure out the cleanest possible way out, which in the end will benefit us all (especially if she moves out and pursues a new relationship - I know it's a wishful thinking but that solves literally all problems, financial, moral etc in one go).

Ok so that makes no sense. A lot of what you're waiting around for hinges on whether or not they're married, and it's beyond bizarre that you don't know their marital status and are unwilling to look into it further. My sister always checks court records on guys she meets on dating sites and with a full name and location she can typically find out his marital status and pull up any court records related to criminal activity in about 5 minutes by doing an internet search. There is absolutely no reason you cannot spend 5 minutes to do the same.

Leaving that whole bizarre "I don't know if he's legally married, he won't tell me and I won't research the matter" aside, the fact is that if he's legally married, there is no "clean break", even if she retires and moves away, he makes 5x what she does, she's entitled to some or maybe a lot of spousal maintenance, and a chunk of whatever assets they've accumulated in 15 years. Possession of his pre-marital home is a minor issue compared to the rest of what is going to happen if and when he ever gets divorced from a woman he won't even disclose if he's legally married to.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Estes