Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: How long ago did he sign off on his parental rights, OP? How did you feel about that? No feelings either way, it isn't what this is about, just don't want to provide details here but also well over an year, closer to two. If we ever have a kid, i'm 1000% sure he'll be hands on father.. But we won't if our "little obstacle" is not solved Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 How would you feel if you found out he was still sleeping with her? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 Just now, elaine567 said: But surely that would have been the right thing to do, marriage not working -> get a divorce to be free to date other people. By this time, 3 years later you could be married and pregnant... but you are not, as he chose to stay where he was and make you his OW. Absolutely, that's what I would have done - if it was me. I'm super monogamous I guess for him is not that important but we also don't know what exactly the arrangement is, they might not be sleeping on the same floor from what i can infer, doesn't matter anyway Married and pregnant - no, to me that's a too short timeline especially considering circumstances (assuming he was freshly divorced and hurting), but engaged to be married - yes, i'd have hoped so. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: How would you feel if you found out he was still sleeping with her? Well won't be happy about it of course, I almost prefer not to know if it ever happens yuck.. Considering what i know -very unlikely anyway Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 He has shown this sense of helplessness that if something has started - he can't be the "bad guy" ending it, in virtually any aspect of life. I don't want to spill specifics but it includes girlfriends, employees, tenants, you name it. I am honestly utterly shocked he thought he will think about resolving his "situation" maybe he indeed loves me truly 😅 As said above praying and hoping he didn't say it to shut me up but seems like we have had a breakthrough somewhat, and now he needs to not chicken Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 34 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I'm curious about your experience: how long did it take him from decision to filing? Seems like she was in denial Otherwise if I had to divorce, I would have acted just like you described, start slowly so it isn't a shock for them. Give ample opportunity for arrangements etc, but that's not the point because I'm not the one doing it.. Actually, it is the point because you're waiting/hoping for him to leave and need to know his plans to find out if he's serious. Thing is though, if the marriage is as how you describe it....strangers passing in the night, no intimacy, don't even know why they are married...surely it wouldn't be a shock if he told her that he was leaving for a 'proper' marriage. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I'm super monogamous I guess for him is not that important As someone who values monogamy, how do you feel about having a relationship with someone who doesn't value it? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 minute ago, basil67 said: Actually, it is the point because you're waiting/hoping for him to leave and need to know his plans to find out if he's serious. Thing is though, if the marriage is as how you describe it....strangers passing in the night, no intimacy, don't even know why they are married...surely it wouldn't be a shock if he told her that he was leaving for a 'proper' marriage. What scares me is that might have been their arrangement to start with. I see what she is getting out of it, I'm scared to know what he is getting out of it but i'm sure the clue is there. And if I am right and he breaks his end of the deal, it might be worse than a dissolution of a traditional marriage. I probably shouldn't be spinning on that but you get the drift Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: If we ever have a kid, i'm 1000% sure he'll be hands on father.. But we won't if our "little obstacle" is not solved This is a pretty gross way to talk about another person's life. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said: This is a pretty gross way to talk about another person's life. Ok obviously I was just sarcastic here 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, basil67 said: As someone who values monogamy, how do you feel about having a relationship with someone who doesn't value it? I don’t know the full story so can’t judge the current situation. I would expect monogamy if things progress. I’ve made it abundantly clear Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I am right and he breaks his end of the deal, it might be worse than a dissolution of a traditional marriage. Why not discus with him trying to conceive the usual and customary way? You both want children and this could start the conversation about whether to proceed out-of-wedlock (if that's accepted in your culture) or whether it will inspire him to divorce. The mistress having her lover's child is not that unusual, especially in these circumstances where he wants children and his wife is past that. A candid conversation about real goals, may help you decide what to do, because you may have frozen embryos but you also need to be young/healthy enough to have a preganacy unless you wish to get a surrogate. And he has no incentive to divorce, but he may be ok with having children together .So place the cards on the table and decide on the best option. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Why not discus with him trying to conceive the usual and customary way? You both want children and this could start the conversation about whether to proceed out-of-wedlock (if that's accepted in your culture) or whether it will inspire him to divorce. The mistress having her lover's child is not that unusual, especially in these circumstances where he wants children and his wife is past that. A candid conversation about real goals, may help you decide what to do, because you may have frozen embryos but you also need to be young/healthy enough to have a preganacy unless you wish to get a surrogate. And he has no incentive to divorce, but he may be ok with having children together .So place the cards on the table and decide on the best option. I really don't want to raise my children in an unhealthy household. If the decision boils down to that being the absolutely only option-maybe some day. But at this point if the choice is having kids pronto as a "single" unmarried mom VS my kids having a mom who is a year or two older, I'm chosing the later. Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Once again, just because they act uninterested in each other in public doesn’t mean they don’t have a real marriage. And as you realize, a marriage that’s not totally conventional is still a marriage. You have convinced yourself that he’s not invested in the marriage, but perhaps he’s actually the more needy of the two - especially if he likes having a “mommy” at home. For your own sake, don’t try to understand their relationship because clearly you can’t know the details. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I really don't want to raise my children in an unhealthy household. If the decision boils down to that being the absolutely only option-maybe some day. But at this point if the choice is having kids pronto as a "single" unmarried mom VS my kids having a mom who is a year or two older, I'm chosing the later. Why is a single- mother household more unhealthy than one where the father is older, an extreme creature of habit who had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of his previous marriage? 9 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I would expect monogamy if things progress. I’ve made it abundantly clear It seems like nothing is abundantly clear to him unless it’s said directly. Did you say directly to him “when we are married I expect you to be 100% monogamous”? If you just hinted at it, well I wouldn’t expect him to get the hint. You have been hinting for 3 years and he still doesn’t acknowledge his actual marriage - I can’t understand that, honestly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I don’t know the full story so can’t judge the current situation. I would expect monogamy if things progress. I’ve made it abundantly clear Pretty much everyone expects monogamy when they marry. But this doesn't stop affairs from happening. And if he's got form as a cheater, he's going to be more likely to cheat on you than someone who never has cheated. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Tam, you seem like an intelligent person. I have notice that it is common among intelligent people to try to give some rational reasons for why a married partner may be doing something. To explain away the very obvious red flags at the cost of ignoring your own feelings and desires. The super intelligent often ignore their own naivety. Sometimes it is almost an arrogance. If it is worth giving up all the things you wanted for your life to sit around and wait for this man to grow some balls and actually leave, then so be it. But also acknowledge, at least to yourself, that it is possible he is extremely happy where he is (most men are happy with 2 women supplying him the things he wants) and will never make any change. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 21 hours ago, TamBuktu said: at this point if the choice is having kids pronto as a "single" unmarried mom VS my kids having a mom who is a year or two older, I'm chosing the later. It may take longer than a year or two for him to divorce. What if you get pregnant naturally and live together while he is legally separated? At least you would be clear on his intentions and sift out the lies about wanting a family with you or not. Ask him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 3:41 PM, TamBuktu said: Yes, that.. Seems like the narrative will be "we accepted you against all odds and you did THIS".. I just cannot express how much I hate this, he's a very successful person and yet some "voices" from his surroundings make him feel inferior (he never told me but is as clear as day, don't want to get into details on that but is low, and quite frankly downright disgusting because it relates to things he cannot change. Let's just leave it at that, hope you caught my drift without saying what I'm saying directly...) I wasn't fully aware if he's onboard but by his words he is, he doesn't know how to get out of there and I want to act smart not fast. So the reason he is giving for not getting a divorce is fear of his wife's family? Well, he may have good reason to fear them, if they are honour religion motivated or mafia or something, but otherwise he is just another guy who is having an affair. Of course his extended family is going to be dismayed and upset about betrayal; most would be. However, most would realise that if a marriage is not working, it is not working and both people are better out of it. I know you want to think the best of him, that he is honest and honourable, but on balance it is more likely he is just pulling the wool over your eyes. He knows you are caring woman who does not want to tread over any boundaries. He could be being manipulative; this is a kind of emotional blackmail - if you pressure me to divorce, then I could end up dead. He is either being very honest with you and in a dangerous situation or he is putting the fear of God into you if you should ever think he will divorce. I suppose what seems a bit odd here is that this 'fearful' man in a 'dangerous' position was still happy to have an affair with you and spend a lot of time with you. What did he think would happen if he got found out? He didn't sound very fearful of that happening. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 2:27 PM, TamBuktu said: I love analogies too Bailey. Do you like this one? I've got this man with whom I've fallen in love. We are in front of a thick forest. We have been wondering what is on the other side for three years now, and have amassed a sizeable fortune of memories and experiences, but haven't been yet on the other side of it. It is a road never taken and I don't have the courage and he doesn't have the skills to create a new path, just yet. But that doesn't matter!! He says he will make it work and I trust him implicitly! So, until that day comes, I’m just going to stick by his side. We would discover new things and our bond will grow stronger. We will learn what we don't know and fortify what we do, and when the time is right, will break through and see the light on the other side... And even if this never happens, the path matters more than the final destination. I’ve never actually been happier… Which of the two analogies you would pick is only a matter of perspective. TamBuktu, you are young enough to start again and find someone more suitable. You have 'bonded' emotionally and physically with this guy; that is why you are so stuck on continuing with him regardless of his lack of action towards a divorce. Bonding makes us feel attached, as if we can't let go. Nature intended it that way. However, it does not mean that nature always gets it right. Once you have disentangled yourself from this guy, weaned yourself off him and unbonded, you could feel the same way about another guy who does not come with all the same issues. His age is a factor too; I am sure that must be concerning you at some level. If you can get rid of this feeling of being 'bonded', you could have a different future. It is a feeling, not fate. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 21 hours ago, RebeccaR said: Why is a single- mother household more unhealthy than one where the father is older, an extreme creature of habit who had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of his previous marriage? Laughed on that, funny style:) Trust me, both my family and his were very unhealthy which might be the underlying reason why we are at this position now. I am not causing this to my children voluntarily, just can't do it Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 21 hours ago, RebeccaR said: It seems like nothing is abundantly clear to him unless it’s said directly. Did you say directly to him “when we are married I expect you to be 100% monogamous”? If you just hinted at it, well I wouldn’t expect him to get the hint. You have been hinting for 3 years and he still doesn’t acknowledge his actual marriage - I can’t understand that, honestly. Yes that's right. I haven't used the M word or D word directly in a conversation and neither did he.. THat's our style of talking and is backfiring 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Starswillshine said: Tam, you seem like an intelligent person. I have notice that it is common among intelligent people to try to give some rational reasons for why a married partner may be doing something. To explain away the very obvious red flags at the cost of ignoring your own feelings and desires. The super intelligent often ignore their own naivety. Sometimes it is almost an arrogance. If it is worth giving up all the things you wanted for your life to sit around and wait for this man to grow some balls and actually leave, then so be it. But also acknowledge, at least to yourself, that it is possible he is extremely happy where he is (most men are happy with 2 women supplying him the things he wants) and will never make any change. Thanks Star - i'm the classic example of book smart and not street smart. Most 'street' knowledge I have is from him actually.. I do not believe he is very happy in the current situation though. Besides being flattering, it comes with lots of fear, juggling 2 cranky-on-occasion women and never being fully off-guard. I lived that life in a different context and it sucked the life out of me. Now on my end I don't need to hide with him, so i don't experience this problem, but if i have to chose his position or mine in the relationship, i'd gladly chose mine, any time. The whole compartmentalization thing grows old real fast. Edited November 3, 2021 by TamBuktu Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 3, 2021 Author Share Posted November 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: It may take longer than a year or two for him to divorce. What if you get pregnant naturally and live together while he is legally separated? At least you would be clear on his intentions and sift out the lies about wanting a family with you or not. Ask him. Yes, once he show me he filed and is all in for future together with me as a family, I would be happy to live together and try naturally for few months or just do embryo transfer Link to post Share on other sites
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