vla1120 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Thats the only advice I need - how to break the pattern and be more direct. I literally can’t say the words out loud, and his “deer stunned by headlights” look doesn’t help me lol. I am searching for a way that doesn’t involve ripping the bandaid cold turkey but maybe that’s the only option left? I am a firm believer in ripping off the bandaid, stating precisely what's on my mind, laying all my cards out on the table. It's refreshing and quite easy to do. You just have to commit yourself to always being transparent about your intent and expectations. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: I said I want kids and his behavior is selfish and he knows what I mean. He said he will do something about it but is dealing with dark forces (her family) This has been all along, no? You want kids, he won't divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: Dark forces... So much drama… 3 Link to post Share on other sites
spiderowl Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 4:59 PM, TamBuktu said: He will never leave ME. Take it or not, call it what you want. I trust him 100% on that. He said he will only leave if you want him to. Translation: I will stay with you as long as you’ll put up with my being married to someone else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 3 hours ago, spiderowl said: He said he will only leave if you want him to. Translation: I will stay with you as long as you’ll put up with my being married to someone else. Sorry guys, just attaching to the last opinion written but.. I need to step out of here for a bit. I know people are not doing it with bad intentions but for my own mental health I can’t keep responding. I’ll be back after I regroup. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Ok, I'm back because I wanted to update on few things. I stepped out earlier this week because I had a bit of a breakdown and lost my nerves (for the first time) with him, I think somewhat because of all the thinking I put in our story resolution and writing about it. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing - nothing bad happened, besides me letting my emotions overrule my brain and telling him things that I didn't want to say out loud. I said how much I was suffering inside not knowing why we are not "24/7 couple" and him not taking a decision. He countered we had to have these conversations earlier and he never understood the full impact on me and he hates the "situation". I said he doesn't and if he hates a given situation, he will change it. He said he is doing something but afraid to get my hopes up. I suggested that's because he doesn't fully trust me. That's very oversimplified, it was long and hard talk over couple of days. Then I let things cool off and they have been pretty much back to normal. Tension is gone, we kept our routine, I feel like he is even a bit more attentive than his usual. Everything seems fine - on the surface. Now - I know: 1) this opened a Pandora box and things that have been said can't be unsaid, he must have it on his mind 2) if I fully let this slip we might settle back in our old ways How would you proceed in a situation like this? Back off a little? Or bring back the topics that have been opened sooner rather than later? (Just to clarify - I want to stay with him; I don't think he wants to leave; I don't want to turn this into coercion - but I want my answers) Link to post Share on other sites
Pumpernickel Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 48 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Or bring back the topics that have been opened sooner rather than later? Bring them up until resolved to your satisfaction. Rug sweeping has never helped anybody long term. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: 1) this opened a Pandora box and things that have been said can't be unsaid, he must have it on his mind Not necessarily. "Men" can be pretty good at assuming all is "fixed" as soon as women shut up about a problem. All is back to normal, and you have calmed down so all is OK again... the pressure is off... 6 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: Then I let things cool off and they have been pretty much back to normal. Tension is gone, we kept our routine, I feel like he is even a bit more attentive than his usual. Everything seems fine - on the surface. You had this big discussion and it has blown over now. You’ve settled back into your normal routine… From his perspective - bullet dodged. All is well again… Tam, you have now began the dance that all couples do in an affair - you voice your unhappiness/expectations, he offers a few platitudes/empty promises, this provides enough reassurance such that you settle back into normal - until the next time you reach your breaking point. It’s a vicious circle, around and around you will go… This is what drives women to despair - it does a number on you when you voice your hopes and feelings only to have them dismissed time and time again… 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: Now - I know: 1) this opened a Pandora box and things that have been said can't be unsaid, he must have it on his mind Not necessarily. Yes, you had a discussion but you have settled back into your normal routine. Your words do not match your actions. Your words said “I’m unhappy.” Your actions say “I’m fine with this. I’ve accepted it.” 1 hour ago, TamBuktu said: How would you proceed in a situation like this? I would end it and tell him to contact me with divorce papers in hand. That’s the only way to actually get what you want from this relationship. It’s not an ultimatum or coercion, you are simply telling him what you want for your life and if he wants the same things, he will do what is required to chose that for himself too. Edited November 13, 2021 by BaileyB 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, BaileyB said: You had this big discussion and it has blown over now. You’ve settled back into your normal routine… From his perspective - bullet dodged. All is well again… Tam, you have now began the dance that all couples do in an affair - you voice your unhappiness/expectations, he offers a few platitudes/empty promises, this provides enough reassurance such that you settle back into normal - until the next time you reach your breaking point. It’s a vicious circle, around and around you will go… This is what drives women to despair - it does a number on you when you voice your hopes and feelings only to have them dismissed time and time again… Not necessarily. Yes, you had a discussion but you have settled back into your normal routine. Your words do not meet your actions. Your words said “I’m unhappy.” Your actions say “This is fine with me. I’ve accepted this.” I would end it and tell him to contact me with divorce papers in hand. That’s the only way to actually get what you want from this relationship. It’s not an ultimatum or coercion, you are simply telling him what you want for your life and if he wants the same things, he will do what is required to chose that for himself too. I am trying to achieve a compromise. Not to get it my way or the high way. If he needs to take some more time- I can accommodate (if the time is indefinite- that’s a totally different story). I made it clear things are on my mind. I made a conversational topic shift which is not too subtle: completely dropped conversation points related to something else- and told him it will be this way until we solve the bigger issue. - I get above posters points that he might think bullet is dodged - but I also don’t want to nag - I feel like the scope of this is not the fact that he is married- I’ve reached exact same road blocks in a previous relationship and also with family members All I’m trying to say I need fo find a way to move forward with a difficult conversation without losing sight of what connected us to start with. Hope this makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I am trying to achieve a compromise. How can you do that when it is a black and white issue. He either leaves and gets a divorce or he doesn't. You marry and start a family or you don't. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Just now, elaine567 said: How can you do that when it is a black and white issue. He either leaves and gets a divorce or he doesn't. You marry and start a family or you don't. The compromise would be on When and How, not on If. We will do it, just the question is how to time it and how to take the first steps. Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: but I also don’t want to nag If expressing your wishes is considered nagging by him, and you don’t want to upset him by nagging, then you have no hope. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: We will do it, just the question is how to time it and how to take the first steps. Do you trust him to follow through? Ask yourself honestly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: If expressing your wishes is considered nagging by him, and you don’t want to upset him by nagging, then you have no hope. I have zero fear of upsetting him. I fear becoming unpleasant (even to myself) by unnecessary repetition - that’s what I consider nagging. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: Do you trust him to follow through? Ask yourself honestly. He’ll do it. But I have strong anxiety about it: - I think he’ll postpone as much as he can because of the fears he have (maybe irrational but that’s irrelevant) - I think there is a good chance I’ll lose my nerves if he delays it too much. So the next steps should be well thought through. From my end, which is all I have control over. Edited November 13, 2021 by TamBuktu Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I am trying to achieve a compromise. Exactly, I agree with Elaine. This is not something on which you can compromise - it’s not like you are choosing what restaurant you want to go to this weekend or how to decorate the home. He is married and you want to start a life with the man. If you stop talking to him about this and he stays married there is no compromise - he does what he wants and you grow more frustrated by the day… While it’s lovely that you want to be a good partner here - you don’t want to nag or pressure him in any way, he will take advantage of your kindness. He has already done so for the past three years - he’s not thinking of your wants and needs when he comes to visit and then returns home to his wife every night knowing that you want more from your relationship. I’m sorry Tam, this doesn’t end in anything but pain for you if you take the high road, continuing to be a good and loving partner to a man who goes home to another woman every night. For your own sanity, you will need to end this at some point. Edited November 13, 2021 by BaileyB 4 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I think he’ll postpone as much as he can How long are you prepared to wait and at what cost to yourself? Edited November 13, 2021 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 I think he will postpone for as long as he can then he will dump you when it gets just too hard to give you what you want. He is conflict avoidant so he will maybe not actively dump you but he will make things so difficult you will dump him. Or he may just ghost you... Once he sees you are not for turning and you will not put up with his nonsense any longer, he will dump/ghost you or force you to dump him, rather than have to face his family and divorce. I could be wrong, but that is how I think this will pan out. There is just nothing tangible for you to hang onto here. "I will do something" just doesn't cut it. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, BaileyB said: How long are you prepared to wait and at what cost to yourself? At this point - about one year. What cost: nerves, that's about it. If I am not a good partner to him now - it sets a bad precedent for our future together. Even if we say he is not treating me right - me not treating him right is not justified or helpful. At this point I am waiting on opportunity (event, conversation etc) to strike another serious topic. The goals will be -understand his fears -get a timeline That's pretty much all that I want right now. I know how to do it - on paper. In practice - not so much, and that makes me mad - at myself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 2 hours ago, TamBuktu said: He said he is doing something but afraid to get my hopes up. Unfortunately, it seems like your talks with him ended badly except to go back to the same waiting for a married man to divorce. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, elaine567 said: I think he will postpone for as long as he can then he will dump you when it gets just too hard to give you what you want. He is conflict avoidant so he will maybe not actively dump you but he will make things so difficult you will dump him. Or he may just ghost you... Once he sees you are not for turning and you will not put up with his nonsense any longer, he will dump/ghost you or force you to dump him, rather than have to face his family and divorce. I could be wrong, but that is how I think this will pan out. There is just nothing tangible for you to hang onto here. "I will do something" just doesn't cut it. Agreed for postponing. Ghosting is logistically impossible. Making me dump him - nah, I am persistent as all hell Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Unfortunately, it seems like your talks with him ended badly except to go back to the same waiting for a married man to divorce. Where do you drive these conclusions from? From my point of view they were actually quite productive, just emotionally draining. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: Where do you drive these conclusions from? From my point of view they were actually quite productive, just emotionally draining. "I am doing do something I do not want to get your hopes up", is not productive in any way. He is stringing you along. You have known this guy for 6 years and he cant even tell you what the something is, he is supposedly doing... I guess it is something or nothing, and my money is on nothing. Sorry... 8 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: If I am not a good partner to him now - it sets a bad precedent for our future together. Even if we say he is not treating me right - me not treating him right is not justified or helpful. You are too kind for your own good. If I had a crystal ball, I would predict that you will spend the next year waiting, trying to understand his fears, supporting him while he weighs the pros and cons of this decision… and then, when it becomes untenable for you and/or for him, he will fade out of your life. Like Elaine, I don’t see this man finding the strength to tell you that he has decided to stay in his marriage and he must end your relationship. If anything, I wonder if he will somehow disclose/you will be discovered and he will depend on his wife to run you off - That will be very difficult for you, either of those scenarios. You will perhaps learn the lesson that you have been far too trusting their hard way… 6 Link to post Share on other sites
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