It's complicated - insight needed

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I hate to put it this was but I think I’m stronger and can manage my feelings better, so I can take more damage and cope with it…

In other words, you are more willing to self sacrifice. That’s not a sign of strength and it is not admirable when the result is essentially self inflicted suffering…

Edited November 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

Ok, in any case today's update is my cards are on the table and I also offered some, in my opinion, useful practical solutions

From here on, in my opinion, i just need to shut up and give him the space to do the next step or at least speak his truth, because he is already seeing is an ultimatum (although I tried not to phrase my wants this way)

The word he used was "concerned" - that's exactly how i feel too

From the few things he said his concerns are mainly superficial, that's the only positive thing i got out

[Minneloa]

6 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

In other words, you are more willing to self sacrifice. That’s not a sign of strength and it is not admirable when the result is essentially self inflicted suffering…

Exactly. Tam, can you see how grim and self-defeating this seems?

[TamBuktu]

Just now, Minneloa said:

Exactly. Tam, can you see how grim and self-defeating this seems?

I do. It's not a decision i've taken lightly.

I just pray i didn't ruin things today... by offering unsolicited advice and "ultimatums"

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

I do. It's not a decision i've taken lightly.

I just pray i didn't ruin things today... by offering unsolicited advice and "ultimatums"

You have basically 2 options:

1) continue your “happy” relationship where you don’t rock the boat but likely never end up with marriage and kids with this MM

2) rock the boat, which is probably your only chance to accomplish your goal but there is also some likelihood that he will retreat completely from the relationship.

This is a difficult choice, only you know which outcome you prefer. If you value your affair relationship more than marriage/kids, that is your personality decision to make.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I just pray i didn't ruin things today... by offering unsolicited advice and "ultimatums"

If you did, then it was never meant to be.

In all seriousness, you should be able to have these kind of discussions with the man without fear that you have not played your cards right and “ruined things.” If you feel like you can not speak your thoughts and feelings, that you must not put any expectations on the man, that you must now give him space and wait to see if he will “come around…” that is a sure sign that you are in a very unhealthy, imbalanced, one-sided relationship. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[TamBuktu]

I did something very stupid today. I compared myself to someone from his past that passed away (let's call her X). I said something in the lines he's not probably not willing to make personal sacrifices for me because I'm young and healthy unlike X and the current one, that are sick or aging and need his support.

I think that's where I left the productive conversation and transitioned to disrespecting his feelings (especially for X that died - and it was a tragic story). That's what i referred above as a need to exercise self-control - otherwise I make mistakes like the above, that can ruin even a very healthy & stable relationship. 

Just ever since I did my first conversation on the real pain point (ie divorce) I find myself digressing into petty conversations as the one mentioned above. It is probably just too painful to me to talk about the divorce and things that are not done, and my brain is playing tricks on me, turning me into something that I am not (disrespectful, mean, condescending), exactly the opposite of what he used to see in me.

 

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

If you did, then it was never meant to be.

In all seriousness, you should be able to have these kind of discussions with the man without fear that you have not played your cards right and “ruined things.” If you feel like you can not speak your thoughts and feelings, that you must not put any expectations on the man, that you must now give him space and wait to see if he will “come around…” that is a sure sign that you are in a very unhealthy, imbalanced, one-sided relationship. 

I just wrote what was the stupid side track that i took.

His reaction was.. be a bit more quiet and then offer to go get dinner... and I find it... scary because I don't know how he truly feels after all things said

[TamBuktu]

9 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

You have basically 2 options:

1) continue your “happy” relationship where you don’t rock the boat but likely never end up with marriage and kids with this MM

2) rock the boat, which is probably your only chance to accomplish your goal but there is also some likelihood that he will retreat completely from the relationship.

This is a difficult choice, only you know which outcome you prefer. If you value your affair relationship more than marriage/kids, that is your personality decision to make.

Well now that he knows how I truly feel I don't even have option 1) on the table I think

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I did something very stupid today. I compared myself to someone from his past that passed away (let's call her X). I said something in the lines he's not probably not willing to make personal sacrifices for me because I'm young and healthy unlike X and the current one, that are sick or aging and need his support.

I think that's where I left the productive conversation and transitioned to disrespecting his feelings (especially for X that died - and it was a tragic story). That's what i referred above as a need to exercise self-control - otherwise I make mistakes like the above, that can ruin even a very healthy & stable relationship. 

Just ever since I did my first conversation on the real pain point (ie divorce) I find myself digressing into petty conversations as the one mentioned above. It is probably just too painful to me to talk about the divorce and things that are not done, and my brain is playing tricks on me, turning me into something that I am not (disrespectful, mean, condescending), exactly the opposite of what he used to see in me.

 

I understand you may have said something unnecessarily hurtful, but this is the natural consequence of having to suppress your true feelings all the time. We all have thoughts that perhaps shouldn’t be shared, but if he was keeping his promises to you, you wouldn’t feel the stress and anger that made you say this. Also - what you said might be actually true.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

I understand you may have said something unnecessarily hurtful, but this is the natural consequence of having to suppress your true feelings all the time. We all have thoughts that perhaps shouldn’t be shared, but if he was keeping his promises to you, you wouldn’t feel the stress and anger that made you say this. Also - what you said might be actually true.

Thanks. I just feel horrible because even if this is true, I was talking about a person that passed who he considered his true love.. So I know that's extremely hurtful thing to hear from me

But yes, if he could respond to me to the divorce questions, this would have never even come up....

[Minneloa]

Tam, it pains me to see you put all the blame and responsibility on yourself. He is 50% of the equation here!

[TamBuktu]

18 minutes ago, Minneloa said:

Tam, it pains me to see you put all the blame and responsibility on yourself. He is 50% of the equation here!

Thank you, all I can control is my 50% and at some days like today I fail at that..

[RebeccaR]

20 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Thank you, all I can control is my 50% and at some days like today I fail at that..

You’re allowed to have feelings and express them. And he’s not a fragile flower who will wilt at the first hint of an argument. Or maybe he is, but hopefully you can see that’s not a desirable trait.

[RebeccaR]

Just now, RebeccaR said:

You’re allowed to have feelings and express them. And he’s not a fragile flower who will wilt at the first hint of an argument. Or maybe he is, but hopefully you can see that’s not a desirable trait.

How will he deal with the stresses of parenthood if he cannot handle relationship questions? 

[TamBuktu]

3 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

How will he deal with the stresses of parenthood if he cannot handle relationship questions? 

Rebecca, that’s why I am there, right? He won’t be a single father.

Plus parenting changes most people.

I hope you are right he won’t wilt on a whiff of an argument. All I can say is just the thought of it makes me sick.

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Plus parenting changes most people.

Not everyone.

And again, you don’t want to bring a child into the world with the hope that the child’s father will change who he is - 

[RebeccaR]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Rebecca, that’s why I am there, right? He won’t be a single father.

Plus parenting changes most people.

I hope you are right he won’t wilt on a whiff of an argument. All I can say is just the thought of it makes me sick.

How will YOU deal with the stresses of parenthood when you can’t trust your partner to be open and aboveboard? Easier to be a single mom than also have to emotionally support that deadweight. Sorry, but true

[TamBuktu]

10 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

How will YOU deal with the stresses of parenthood when you can’t trust your partner to be open and aboveboard? Easier to be a single mom than also have to emotionally support that deadweight. Sorry, but true

Let see how he solves the current situation. It will be telling.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Let see how he solves the current situation.

He doesn't want a divorce, does he? Is that what you mean by current situation?

It's unclear why he would want to go through a divorce. He seems rather content with the way things are, no?

 

[ExpatInItaly]

8 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I started overthinking this all situation.

You're not overthinking anything. 

You're just starting to see the situation for what it is, and it's not the love story you so badly want it to be. Your heart is battling with your rational mind because you're not emotionally ready to see the truth yet. But your rational brain has it there ready for you. 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

 give him the space to do the next step or at least speak his truth.

It sounds like you are expecting him to divorce soon? He never promised that, did he? Or did he just imply his marriage wasn't happy?

[elaine567]

7 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

His reaction was.. be a bit more quiet and then offer to go get dinner... and I find it... scary because I don't know how he truly feels after all things said

So he shut you down and closed up...

Edited November 14, 2021 by elaine567

[TamBuktu]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

He doesn't want a divorce, does he? Is that what you mean by current situation?

It's unclear why he would want to go through a divorce. He seems rather content with the way things are, no?

 

To this and your other post: yes he promised. He didn’t write it in blood lol but for what it takes, he said it so I shall believe it.

To not make me and other people suffer and for our future family, these are reasons

 

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You're not overthinking anything. 

You're just starting to see the situation for what it is, and it's not the love story you so badly want it to be. Your heart is battling with your rational mind because you're not emotionally ready to see the truth yet. But your rational brain has it there ready for you. 

Yes I’m overthinking it the steps.

The situation itself I processed, so many times, at this point it’s almost nothing new to learn.. on my end. On his end it’s just starting:/