ExpatInItaly Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: The situation itself I processed, so many times, at this point it’s almost nothing new to learn.. on my end. On his end it’s just starting:/ Is it, though? Based on what you have shared here, he hasn't really said anything to indicate that he is starting to process anything. He is keeping it status quo. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: Is it, though? Based on what you have shared here, he hasn't really said anything to indicate that he is starting to process anything. He is keeping it status quo. Oh I meant processing the situation mentally, like I did already. At this point I am not worried for the physical filing. Once he’s emotionally on the right page, this will be just going through motions. At this point he’s on one side saying he’s doing something, on the other side bargaining (scared of family, scared for money, why I really want him lol). In my opinion this is normal and healthy before a big change. - But also- it’s extremely fragile time, if the person finds a reason not to go through troubles- he might revert to the original state So… nothing is definite, I’m hopeful and will remain to be, for my own sake, until proven otherwise.. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I wouldn’t get that far- he never told me yo stop talking about it . But yet the ability to dissociate in this case was just freaky…. No, but he effectively stopped you talking by not responding and changing the subject... 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: No, but he effectively stopped you talking by not responding and changing the subject... Yeah, you can look at it this way. He does that a lot, for unpleasant topics. Starts doing physical work for example (just out of the blue, for no reason but to cope with the stressful talk). I always thought it’s just his quirk, but here we are coping with a serious topic on another level, that’s why it’s scary… Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Oh I meant processing the situation mentally, like I did already. Yes, I know what you meant. I think you are projecting your own feelings and thought processes because it allows you to believe he is going to leave. And that is a lot more comfortable for you than considering any other possibility. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said: Yes, I know what you meant. I think you are projecting your own feelings and thought processes because it allows you to believe he is going to leave. And that is a lot more comfortable for you than considering any other possibility. Maybe. I'll stop projecting when he opens up, if he opens up. But yes: - I have thought this through for years and thought he did too - But maybe he didn't. If so - it means I massively overloaded him with my thoughts and idea. From my end, I am not considering any other possibility, because that's the only way to stay focused. If anything else happens - I'll deal with it as it gets there. At this point my mind is on the positive outcome. Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: it means I massively overloaded him with my thoughts and idea. Yes, he is always the victim. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: Yes, he is always the victim. Lol it sounds like it. But it's true, no- would you say handling it the way I did was not "overloading"? I'm just trying to fix my own mistakes, we'll deal with his at a later point.. Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 45 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: To not make me and other people suffer and for our future family, these are reasons Perhaps I misread. Your other post stated when you confronted him he told you "he didn't want to get your hopes up", no? Try to stay focused on the present. There is no family at this time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Lol it sounds like it. But it's true, no- would you say handling it the way I did was not "overloading"? I'm just trying to fix my own mistakes, we'll deal with his at a later point.. No, you're not overloading. You need to stop seeing him as a delicate soul who can't handle emotions. He's fine. You're not the one making "mistakes" in that specific context. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said: Perhaps I misread. Your other post stated when you confronted him he told you "he didn't want to get your hopes up", no? Try to stay focused on the present. There is no family at this time. So the "hopes up" statement was regarding my response about the concrete measures he's taking, and him responding why he's not disclosing these. Unfortunately since then we are 2 heated conversations down the line... You're right to stop future projecting - I am doing it to stay on focus mostly, but it's unhealthy. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Yeah, you can look at it this way. He does that a lot, for unpleasant topics. Starts doing physical work for example (just out of the blue, for no reason but to cope with the stressful talk). I always thought it’s just his quirk, but here we are coping with a serious topic on another level, that’s why it’s scary… Trouble is it is quite easy to think he is overloaded, he needs time to process, he needs space... BUT he may shut off as soon as he is out of the firing line. He never gives it another thought as he has already dismissed it... This is the problem with guys who keep it all close to their chest and who duck out of serious "discussions". "Women" in general are often very good at filling in the blanks with what they think, and how they would react, and assuming it is what he thinks and how he would react, whereas he may be literally thinking about the garden or how to fix that shower, or some other physical task... and is not giving "the discussion" much thought if any... If he already knows he is not leaving but he wants to maintain the status quo,, then how would he react? I guess in a similar way to the way your guy is reacting... If he is indeed doing nothing to take this forward, then the "hopes up" comment is a great cover... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Trouble is it is quite easy to think he is overloaded, he needs time to process, he needs space... BUT he may shut off as soon as he is out of the firing line. He never gives it another thought as he has already dismissed it... This is the problem with guys who keep it all close to their chest and who duck out of serious "discussions". "Women" in general are often very good at filling in the blanks with what they think, and how they would react, and assuming it is what he thinks and how he would react, whereas he may be literally thinking about the garden or how to fix that shower, or some other physical task... and is not giving "the discussion" much thought if any... If he already knows he is not leaving but he wants to maintain the status quo,, then how would he react? I guess in a similar way to the way your guy is reacting... If he is indeed doing nothing to take this forward, then the "hopes up" comment is a great cover... Yeah, it very well be he's shutting it off the second we stop talking. From what i know about him - he decides what to do on the fly, or at least appear like it. I personally don't think he's covering up anything, he is just getting random thoughts out there.. What we really need is to talk without emotion, just factual. In the past 6 days I managed to do it once, lose myself to emotion twice, and just carry on 3 times. That's not a good score:/ Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: What we really need is to talk without emotion, just factual If this is the case, the conversation would be over in a few minutes. And I don’t know who told you you’re not supposed to express emotions - that’s not healthy. It’s normal to express emotion on a topic that matters to you. Remember Spock on TOS (the original Star Trek)? He fell ashamed of having emotions because he was ashamed of being half human, not full Vulcan. You sound like him. There was a reason the writers includes this aspect of his personality, in order to demonstrate that humans have emotions and it’s normal and natural to express them. Edited November 14, 2021 by RebeccaR 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: .you're right to stop future projecting - I am doing it to stay on focus mostly, Exactly. This "our future family" has your thoughts focusing on fantasy rather than reality. In reality he's a married man with no desire to divorce. You're pressuring him, but have no leverage. He is not dense. He knows you're unhappy just being a mistress. He just doesn't want to get divorced so is coming up with excuses. It's not about his wife or their marriage. That's entirely their business. Your concern is your happiness and who you would like to date, marry and have a family with some day. That's a fine goal and desire. Unfortunately not realistic with the current married man. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Yeah, it very well be he's shutting it off the second we stop talking. From what i know about him - he decides what to do on the fly, or at least appear like it. I personally don't think he's covering up anything, he is just getting random thoughts out there.. What we really need is to talk without emotion, just factual. In the past 6 days I managed to do it once, lose myself to emotion twice, and just carry on 3 times. That's not a good score:/ Again, why do you take all the blame, when he’s the grown man failing to communicate clearly and sticking his head in the sand? ☹️ 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: If this is the case, the conversation would be over in a few minutes. And I don’t know who told you you’re not supposed to express emotions - that’s not healthy. It’s normal to express emotion on a topic that matters to you. Remember Spock on TOS (the original Star Trek)? He fell ashamed of having emotions because he was ashamed of being half human, not full Vulcan. You sound like him. There was a reason the writers includes this aspect of his personality, in order to demonstrate that humans have emotions and it’s normal and natural to express them. Yes love the original Star Trek and the analogy. If I express too many emotions he shuts off and it becomes counterproductive. And I slip out things that should have never been said (accusations etc). So... maybe the answer is not to stop expressing emotions, but to express them in more controlled way. I found the following strategy for a conversation 1)acknowledge responsibility (i.e. delaying talking about it) 2)set a goal (i.e. plan out the divorce) 3)listen and validate (i.e. hear his reasoning) 4)restate goal and outcome (reiterate what the final outcome will be: marriage, family etc) So I've been trying to do that - and every.single.time it fails on step 3) - because he is not open with me. I thought me being overemotional is the reason but maybe not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Minneloa said: Again, why do you take all the blame, when he’s the grown man failing to communicate clearly and sticking his head in the sand? ☹️ Because I processed this for months and just blasted my entire bucket of thoughts on him. I could have done better than that. Tomorrow is a day anyway. Another opportunity to deal with things. Maybe at this point it will be just a damage control day, i am just so worried what he thinks now that he slept on it. Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 In the quote above, you clearly stated his contribution to the problem: because he is not open with me. If I may, why are you so reluctant to assign him his share of responsibility for the current state of communication? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Because I processed this for months and just blasted my entire bucket of thoughts on him. I could have done better than that. He has been having an affair with you for 3 years, and he knows you want children with him before you both are too old. The only reason he hasn’t processed this is because he doesn’t want to. And that is not a good sign. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 Just now, Minneloa said: In the quote above, you clearly stated his contribution to the problem: because he is not open with me. If I may, why are you so reluctant to assign him his share of responsibility for the current state of communication? I acknowledge it but what to do about it? Whereas my part I can change. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, RebeccaR said: He has been having an affair with you for 3 years, and he knows you want children with him before you both are too old. The only reason he hasn’t processed this is because he doesn’t want to. And that is not a good sign. It’s not indeed, he’s very passive. I knew about it from the start. Let see what he’ll do, I guess that’s the only measure Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I acknowledge it but what to do about it? Whereas my part I can change. Exactly. You can't work with someone who isn't willing to work with you. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 minute ago, TamBuktu said: I acknowledge it but what to do about it? Whereas my part I can change. Gently, I think that you need to consider the possibility that this man’s inability to communicate about emotions and important life decisions is a serious deficit in a partner, one that you cannot single-handedly “fix” or compensate for. I don’t say this to be mean. I say it because I am worried that if he fails to rise to the occasion, as seems likely, you will suffer a tremendous emotional crash and burn because all your hopes are pinned on him. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Minneloa said: Gently, I think that you need to consider the possibility that this man’s inability to communicate about emotions and important life decisions is a serious deficit in a partner, one that you cannot single-handedly “fix” or compensate for. This, or he just refuses to speak with you because he does not want to have the conversation. He does not plan to divorce. He likes things as they are now. From his perspective, there is nothing to discuss. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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