It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Have you ever just asked him directly where he is going as he sneaks out of your house every night?  

Yes and he’ll always come with half truth (naming the activity, skipping the details). 

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

The bolded is a terrible thing to say.  Quite offensive really.  Leaving or planning to leave a domestic abuse situation is anything but straightforward.  Imagine the thought process behind working out how to keep yourself and your children safe after leaving.  Imagine the confusion and self questioning because of the gaslighting from the abuser. Imagine the through process when knowing that there is insufficient safe and affordable housing to house a newly single mom who's got little money because she hasn't been allowed to work.  

When I left my previous marriage, it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't good.  Yes, there was a period of trying to live with it, but leaving is far easier and more straightforward than an abusive situation.

That boring job with decent pay is called LIFE.  And that person should be grateful that they have a decently paying job.   I'm sure there are countless people who'd be grateful to have a decently paying job which isn't terribly exciting.

You're making far far to many excuses for him.

I’m sorry if it came up as offensive. I meant easy in terms of having a legitimate reason to fight. I’ve been in abusive situations and logistically is a horror story but at least there is a sense of accomplishment and no what ifs besides the obvious logistics.

We can agree to disagree of what we call life… being grateful for something doesn’t make you happy.

 

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

We can agree to disagree of what we call life… being grateful for something doesn’t make you happy.

But happiness can't be achieved without gratefulness.  

[basil67]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I’m sorry if it came up as offensive. I meant easy in terms of having a legitimate reason to fight. I’ve been in abusive situations and logistically is a horror story but at least there is a sense of accomplishment and no what ifs besides the obvious logistics.

If he's got "what if's" holding him back, then don't hold your breath waiting for him to leave.

[RebeccaR]

11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes and he’ll always come with half truth (naming the activity, skipping the details). 

This tells you all you need to know. He’s not honest and forthcoming with you. Is that what you consider “totally bonded’?

Look, I’m sure you have a lot in common and you enjoy each other’s company and have decent sex. That doesn’t mean he’s leaving his marriage for you.

[elaine567]

11 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes and he’ll always come with half truth (naming the activity, skipping the details). 

 I am sorry but this isn't a good man. you would be stupid to put all your faith in this man.
Please step back a little, remove the emotional veneer and see this man for what he really is.
How could you ever really trust him?
He lies to you so easily.

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

But happiness can't be achieved without gratefulness.  

I have to correct the above. I wanted to use your wording, but that wording is problematic.  Ongoing happiness is not an achievable goal.  Happiness is transient and occurs with particular situations and stimuli, but contentment and knowing how to count one's blessings is the place where peace and harmony sits.   

Your MM is likely content with the status quo and this is why he's not looking to change it.  The lies and deception of both you and his wife suit his needs and there's no reason he should change what he's doing.  

https://theconversation.com/happiness-is-an-illusion-heres-why-you-should-seek-contentment-instead-43709   

 

[elaine567]

So if he is off to do activities what time does he routinely leave you?

[TamBuktu]

19 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So if he is off to do activities what time does he routinely leave you?

9-11 pm, depends, activities are generally picking something, fixing something etc. Also generally sends me pictures of the final results lol, sometimes we chat about the news then sleep, then work. Looking from the side we are very boring people

[TamBuktu]

23 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I have to correct the above. I wanted to use your wording, but that wording is problematic.  Ongoing happiness is not an achievable goal.  Happiness is transient and occurs with particular situations and stimuli, but contentment and knowing how to count one's blessings is the place where peace and harmony sits.   

Your MM is likely content with the status quo and this is why he's not looking to change it.  The lies and deception of both you and his wife suit his needs and there's no reason he should change what he's doing.  

https://theconversation.com/happiness-is-an-illusion-heres-why-you-should-seek-contentment-instead-43709   

 

I'll read this later, thanks. Yes, status quo is a thing hard to change without a big motif for some personality types.. For me is hard to change too, because I'm currently quite content, only thing I'm missing is kids.

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

9-11 pm, depends, activities are generally picking something, fixing something etc. Also generally sends me pictures of the final results lol, sometimes we chat about the news then sleep, then work. Looking from the side we are very boring people

So you do know where he is? I assume you have a good idea if he’s sending you pictures.

 It sounds like you are in a routine he likes. He might be “staying over soon”? Will he have to fake a trip? Married people don’t generally get to sleep away unless they travel for business, and that doesn’t seem to be a thing in his line of work. You might be waiting a long time.

[RebeccaR]

3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

because I'm currently quite content, only thing I'm missing is kids.

Then have a baby as a single mom. Don’t force this guy to do your bidding.

[stillafool]

25 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

9-11 pm, depends, activities are generally picking something, fixing something etc. Also generally sends me pictures of the final results lol, sometimes we chat about the news then sleep, then work. Looking from the side we are very boring people

Then why doesn't he return to you after the activity is over instead of going home?  Doesn't he want to spend the night with you and wake up to you in the morning?

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes and he’ll always come with half truth (naming the activity, skipping the details). 

And you accept this from him because…

I mean - talk about a rock and a hard place. If you don’t ask, you don’t know. If you do ask, you don’t get the truth. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

For me is hard to change too, because I'm currently quite content, only thing I'm missing is kids.

And a partner that you can trust. Someone you can have an honest conversation with - someone who will listen to your needs and your feelings without dismissing them. A man who puts your needs ahead of his own. A man who will commit to you. A man who will hold you at night and wake up and bring you coffee in the morning. 

What you have right now is a companion, not a partner. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by BaileyB

[Veronica73]

It’s a little disturbing that you think a job that is paid decently but that you’re bored with, or a relationship that isn’t great but isn’t abusive is a “nightmare” and somehow worse than being in an abusive marriage. These are things people deal with all the time…and yes, I’ll agree with others who say that this is life. They are hardly nightmares. They are very normal situations that most everybody deals with. Especially when there aren’t even kids involved. You’ve said yourself he has no real reason to end his marriage. That doesn’t say much for you does it? You say his marriage is basically non-existent and he only goes home to sleep (although now it turns out he may not even be going home to her and you don’t even know where he goes). But the opportunity to be with you and spend the night with you and raise kids with you apparently isn’t much of a reason to leave his marriage. Are you sure he wants children that badly?

[MilaVaneela]

1 hour ago, Veronica73 said:

And I’m wondering about what the big risk are in hiring a PI. Why are you worried about tracking? Are you worried about him being tracked or you? And you act so cagey about so many things. Even the reason he needs to go home around bedtime. To take care of…..what was it? I’m not even sure what you said because I think you were again being vague….was it a living thing or something? Or a living creature? Is it a plant….a pet….animals…children….elderly people who can’t take care of themselves? But whatever it is, they only need him to care for them at night? Why are you concerned about tracking? The obfuscation makes it seem like you’re a spy during the Cold War or something. Or her family are important people in the mafia or a drug cartel or something, lol! I don’t get it. The possible imminent violence and dark, shady things. 

I’ve mainly been following this thread without comment until now… but… I’ll just say this.
 

Once upon a time, I had a friend who was an absolutely lovely person… however, she was very deeply unhappy with her life and so she had a tendency to try and cultivate a great deal of drama in her day to day existence. Even the most mundane, commonplace things became a source of great mystery and high drama, right down to the same coy, vague and overly cryptic “tee hee, I have something going on but I can’t talk about it” or “I can’t disclose that” comments. It was incredibly frustrating and yet still quite sad as it was plain that at her core she was deeply unhappy and dissatisfied with her life and its banal reality. 

I get the feeling that,  much like my dear friend, Tam’s “speaking in riddles”, cryptic comments and obfuscation are at their root because she is deeply unhappy with the reality of her life as it is and thus wants to create a more exciting existence for herself. I don’t say that being cruel or disparaging, I just mean that I wish you (Tam) felt you were able to speak plainly and honestly to anyone without all the coy little game playing and “fun with words”. 

[IrinaM]

13 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

Yes and he’ll always come with half truth (naming the activity, skipping the details). 

also gaslighting^^

[TamBuktu]

12 hours ago, BaileyB said:

And a partner that you can trust. Someone you can have an honest conversation with - someone who will listen to your needs and your feelings without dismissing them. A man who puts your needs ahead of his own. A man who will commit to you. A man who will hold you at night and wake up and bring you coffee in the morning. 

What you have right now is a companion, not a partner. 

We are getting there, we are getting there:)

Being through several health scares, major house projects, and family visits together plus you know, the ordinary thing in life like births, funerals, job changes.. I feel like we are truly on the way to committed partnership.

[TamBuktu]

9 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

It’s a little disturbing that you think a job that is paid decently but that you’re bored with, or a relationship that isn’t great but isn’t abusive is a “nightmare” and somehow worse than being in an abusive marriage. These are things people deal with all the time…and yes, I’ll agree with others who say that this is life. They are hardly nightmares. They are very normal situations that most everybody deals with. Especially when there aren’t even kids involved. You’ve said yourself he has no real reason to end his marriage. That doesn’t say much for you does it? You say his marriage is basically non-existent and he only goes home to sleep (although now it turns out he may not even be going home to her and you don’t even know where he goes). But the opportunity to be with you and spend the night with you and raise kids with you apparently isn’t much of a reason to leave his marriage. Are you sure he wants children that badly?

I am not changing my opinion about this - because I lived it. Not an abusive marriage but abusive situations. And also stagnant ones. The first were hurtful of course, the second - soul sucking. In some cases yes, benefit is higher than cost. But in many others - like his current one - I wouldn't call it life, I'll call it wasting his life.

I have not once said he's in a horrible place. He isn't. I am not either. We are very happy with the current and that's a huge part of the problem. When you are okay  - that's when you forget about the possibilities to grow bigger, better things for yourself.You brought up the kid reason - I don't think he can even picture it the way I do, after withholding this part of life for decades, due to circumstances, and believing it is not in the cards for him.

 

[TamBuktu]

7 hours ago, MilaVaneela said:

I’ve mainly been following this thread without comment until now… but… I’ll just say this.
 

Once upon a time, I had a friend who was an absolutely lovely person… however, she was very deeply unhappy with her life and so she had a tendency to try and cultivate a great deal of drama in her day to day existence. Even the most mundane, commonplace things became a source of great mystery and high drama, right down to the same coy, vague and overly cryptic “tee hee, I have something going on but I can’t talk about it” or “I can’t disclose that” comments. It was incredibly frustrating and yet still quite sad as it was plain that at her core she was deeply unhappy and dissatisfied with her life and its banal reality. 

I get the feeling that,  much like my dear friend, Tam’s “speaking in riddles”, cryptic comments and obfuscation are at their root because she is deeply unhappy with the reality of her life as it is and thus wants to create a more exciting existence for herself. I don’t say that being cruel or disparaging, I just mean that I wish you (Tam) felt you were able to speak plainly and honestly to anyone without all the coy little game playing and “fun with words”. 

I wouldn't say so. It has bee the same way my entire life, and by meeting him - I just found another person who is similar to me in that respect.

Nothing about my current life is frustrating (except as said many times - not having kids). I'm super happy with my home, job, social circle and of course him. 

Yes we don't speak plain and honest between each other... It might be the core of the "problem" - I wouldn't be attracted to him if he was plain, simple, honest guy. I crave his way of talking, I crave his personality, I crave the problem solving. So you do have a point.

[TamBuktu]

13 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

So you do know where he is? I assume you have a good idea if he’s sending you pictures.

 It sounds like you are in a routine he likes. He might be “staying over soon”? Will he have to fake a trip? Married people don’t generally get to sleep away unless they travel for business, and that doesn’t seem to be a thing in his line of work. You might be waiting a long time.

Nah, I doubt he'll need to fake anything. For whatever reason he has been living this "free" life regardless of what his legal status is. Nobody is keeping him accountable. We have met quite a few times after midnight and it hasn't been a problem. If he decides to stay over, he will. It's not a matter of logistics, just desire. 

[TamBuktu]

Update is: after 2 fairly intense conversation nights, we got right back in the "calm" zone. I noticed he is more passionate and animated than usual though. You'd think the topics we had would have scared him... But quite the opposite. I don't know if I should read too much into this, it's just so weird and fascinating to me, because I would have reacted completely differently.

[Veronica73]

13 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I wouldn't say so. It has bee the same way my entire life, and by meeting him - I just found another person who is similar to me in that respect.

Nothing about my current life is frustrating (except as said many times - not having kids). I'm super happy with my home, job, social circle and of course him. 

Yes we don't speak plain and honest between each other... It might be the core of the "problem" - I wouldn't be attracted to him if he was plain, simple, honest guy. I crave his way of talking, I crave his personality, I crave the problem solving. So you do have a point.

So what happens when you have kids? Do you think he’ll change? Both in his openness and honesty, and also his independent lifestyle.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, Veronica73 said:

So what happens when you have kids? Do you think he’ll change? Both in his openness and honesty, and also his independent lifestyle.

Yeah that’s a major concern.

The way I see him is in “fun dad” role whereas I do the heavy lifting. But yeah might not be that romantic when kids are here