It's complicated - insight needed

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, Veronica73 said:

So what happens when you have kids? Do you think he’ll change? Both in his openness and honesty, and also his independent lifestyle.

Yeah that’s a major concern.

The way I see him is in “fun dad” role whereas I do the heavy lifting. But yeah might not be that romantic when kids are here

[elaine567]

34 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

3) of course I know where he goes - from pictures etc. I don't know if he gets back - - to her - - , to himself, to another person in one of his primary locations

But you really have no clue, he could literally be anywhere 
 

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Yeah that’s a major concern.

Of course it is, he will disappear mumble something about "activities" and show up hours later.
Due to his personality you will never pin him down to telling you where he has really been...
If you put your foot down  and curb his wandering bachelor ways, he will no doubt not like that at all.
 

[Veronica73]

I think I’d be concerned that his lack of transparency and openness and honesty might screw up your kids a bit as well. People often end up in therapy because of screwy upbringings where their family of origin had unhealthy dynamics, and so as adults they need to go to therapy to learn what healthy relationships look like. You talk about because of your personality type you seem to like all this drama and vagueness. This is very unusual. I don’t think very many people would like living like that. I don’t have kids but it seems like providing them with stability and consistency and trust is pretty important. Or so I hear.

[TamBuktu]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Of course it is, he will disappear mumble something about "activities" and show up hours later.
Due to his personality you will never pin him down to telling you where he has really been...
If you put your foot down  and curb his wandering bachelor ways, he will no doubt not like that at all.
 

He seem not to object as long as it builds a new routine.

But yes, with kids will be a whole other world to worry about.

I sometimes wonder how his current wife is ok with his bachelor lifestyle. Forget about my relationship with him, before then he was out every single night too. And if we turn the clock 10 years ago- he had a whole day out hanging out crew (her not included) and clubbing crew for the nights (her not included). I’m just curious how can she be ok with that?

[TamBuktu]

7 minutes ago, Veronica73 said:

I think I’d be concerned that his lack of transparency and openness and honesty might screw up your kids a bit as well. People often end up in therapy because of screwy upbringings where their family of origin had unhealthy dynamics, and so as adults they need to go to therapy to learn what healthy relationships look like. You talk about because of your personality type you seem to like all this drama and vagueness. This is very unusual. I don’t think very many people would like living like that. I don’t have kids but it seems like providing them with stability and consistency and trust is pretty important. Or so I hear.

My own family was quite disfunctional so I am worried about that too.

I have chosen him as a father figure for my future kids because I think he’ll give them the level of calm and consistency that I never had and really needed. From that end, I think he’ll outperform what I can give them if I were to become a single mom.

[Wiseman2]

43 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I wouldn't be attracted to him if he was plain, simple, honest guy. 

Ok then you're both happy.

[RebeccaR]

24 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

If you put your foot down  and curb his wandering bachelor ways, he will no doubt not like that at all.

Even if he was actually single  at this point, he might have a very hard time settling down and changing his routines at this point. This is probably a big part of why he doesn’t want to deal with further commitment.

[RebeccaR]

18 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I’m just curious how can she be ok with that?

You’re not just curious, you’re looking for clues that he’s not really committed to her. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn’t.

Also, hanging out all day and clubbing at night? When did he work?

[RebeccaR]

4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Cousins etc

That’s hardly anything in terms of shared life events, sorry 

[elaine567]

21 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Forget about my relationship with him, before then he was out every single night too. And if we turn the clock 10 years ago- he had a whole day out hanging out crew (her not included) and clubbing crew for the nights (her not included).

You really think he is going to be a good father figure for your kids...
You'll never see him.
You may not even manage to get your routine evening slot...

[RebeccaR]

20 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I have chosen him as a father figure for my future kids

This is a weird statement.

First of all, choosing your kids’ father unilaterally is not a thing in most cases.

Also, “father figure” doesn’t mean physical father at all. But maybe this strange usage is just the language barrier.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

You’re not just curious, you’re looking for clues that he’s not really committed to her. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn’t.

Also, hanging out all day and clubbing at night? When did he work?

Of course he worked, and of course he had time after work, weekends, vacations - like any of us. 

I am NOT looking for clues why he is not committed to her - that's obvious. I'm just trying to understand what has kept her / drawn her to a "relationship" like this. It's the only reason I asked the question. I feel like I'm overlooking something because I can't relate due to age difference (she's older than my parents), culture (she's from a different one than me and him as well). mindset of a divorcee (she was freshly divorced) etc.. I'm trying to figure out the reason and the pattern.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, RebeccaR said:

This is a weird statement.

First of all, choosing your kids’ father unilaterally is not a thing in most cases.

Also, “father figure” doesn’t mean physical father at all. But maybe this strange usage is just the language barrier.

I was trying to make a distinction between biological father (which he can be, right now) and someone who will do the father duties. 

I was also explaining why I chose a person like this vs someone else. Obviously I'm not having kids with him without his participation lol

[TamBuktu]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You really think he is going to be a good father figure for your kids...
You'll never see him.
You may not even manage to get your routine evening slot...

The way how he treats other kids and dependents in his life... I can't believe that will be the case.

[elaine567]

I have a feeling with this new info as regards his old lifestyle that as soon as he is single he is going to want to party, not spend time changing nappies...
You really made a very poor choice here.
 

[TamBuktu]

11 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

Even if he was actually single  at this point, he might have a very hard time settling down and changing his routines at this point. This is probably a big part of why he doesn’t want to deal with further commitment.

Yes, in my opinion that's a huge part of the problem. And why he stays in his "marriage of convenience". Someone mentioned they might be even separated at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case considering our schedule.

I wish I can get some men's perspective of making a transition like this. It happens all the time and I know a few, but I'm not close enough to them to ask questions (like was it an "oops" child or did they make a deliberate choice lol)

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

I have a feeling with this new info as regards his old lifestyle that as soon as he is single he is going to want to party, not spend time changing nappies...
You really made a very poor choice here.
 

Even considering he's a decade older now? When we started dating he was still out with friends quite a lot but not anymore... So I thought maybe he's changing because of us or because he's getting older?

[elaine567]

Hard to say, but many newly separated/divorced men do tend to go a bit wild and want to play the field once "free".
Some MM will even dump their OW, once the whole world of women is opened up to them. 
The fact he was in the past an avid  clubber and socialite then I would be surprised if he did not take full advantage of his new found freedom.

I thought from what you said originally  he was the quiet, deep, bookish, introverted, stay at home type... but no.
 

[RebeccaR]

It seems he likes things the way they are now. And, gently, his wife has nothing to do with that - she’s not holding him prisoner physically or mentally. If you want kids, look elsewhere.

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

It seems he likes things the way they are now. And, gently, his wife has nothing to do with that - she’s not holding him prisoner physically or mentally. If you want kids, look elsewhere.

If he really wanted kids, he would have had them already. Or at least, he would have jumped at the opportunity to have them with you. I don’t think he really wants them tbh.

[TamBuktu]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

If he really wanted kids, he would have had them already. Or at least, he would have jumped at the opportunity to have them with you. I don’t think he really wants them tbh.

He was the one fantasizing on the topic first. I guess people can say the same about me - if I wanted to have them, i wouldn't have waited that long. But then circumstances were preventing me from doing it, and in his case - even more so.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

If he really wanted kids, he would have had them already. Or at least, he would have jumped at the opportunity to have them with you. I don’t think he really wants them tbh.

I don't think he wants or wanted them.
Hard to blame his older wife for  his lack of kids when he sounds like he was the playboy type, out clubbing or hanging out with his mates every night...

[RebeccaR]

4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

He was the one fantasizing on the topic first

A lot of people fantasize about things they would never actually do

 

5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I guess people can say the same about me - if I wanted to have them, i wouldn't have waited that long. But then circumstances were preventing me from doing it, and in his case - even more so.

He is not you. I understand you really do want kids, but he is not you.

[TamBuktu]

9 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Hard to say, but many newly separated/divorced men do tend to go a bit wild and want to play the field once "free".
Some MM will even dump their OW, once the whole world of women is opened up to them. 
The fact he was in the past an avid  clubber and socialite then I would be surprised if he did not take full advantage of his new found freedom.

I thought from what you said originally  he was the quiet, deep, bookish, introverted, stay at home type... but no.
 

The reason it appears contradicting is because that's exactly how he is. He's not the typical "party guy" and also not the typical introvert. In a nutshell if he is out with friends at night - he will never drink, but he will pretend to do so so he can immerse in the company. Then his friends will start conversations and he'd just guide into some scandalous topic and enjoy people watching. It's literally how he describes it. He only goes out for people watching.
When he is on his own - he can't stay in silence, and can't stay without doing something manual. That's why all his "activities" - for whatever reason doing things, in unusual times, alone, relaxes him.
And then it comes the multiple hour long walks alone. That's how we started bonding because I was doing the same and we just converged to do it together.
So in a nutshell - he is a complete introvert that can pretend to be extrovert for the purpose of "people watching". He completely shifts depending on his surroundings.

He's the level of weird that keeps me on my toes, I feel like that's why I find him so fascinating. I'd never go out with a "party animal" - it's so not my style.