It's complicated - insight needed

[stillafool]

50 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

It's a valid strategy men use to avoid commitment with a particular woman.

You know Poppy this makes perfect sense to me.  This would explain a lot of his behavior, like leaving Tam's house and not going home, according to her; but to hang out with other friends or something like that.  He's probably going home to his own place or to who knows who for that matter.

[BaileyB]

7 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Pretty much like you are doing Tam.  You're in your 30s and your bio clock is ticking away yet you chose to put marriage and babies on hold to wait for, get this- another woman to divorce her husband so you can try to marry and get pregnant by him.  Yes you're right, love does make some make poor choices.

And just as Tam says she believes he is doing, she is trying really hard to create a narrative that supports her poor choices. 

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You know Poppy this makes perfect sense to me.  This would explain a lot of his behavior, like leaving Tam's house and not going home, according to her; but to hang out with other friends or something like that.  He's probably going home to his own place or to who knows who for that matter.

I didn't read that part (heck thread is 70 pages!) but from I did read, him NOT being married sticks out to me like a sore thumb.  So many of his behaviors make absolutely zero sense; I also recall reading that at one point, Tam herself was even questioning if he was married!

Impossible to know for sure, all I know is that there are men who do use it as a way to take the pressure off and prevents a woman from pushing for more commitment/marriage and again a lot of his behavior makes no sense and points to it being true.

Edited January 8, 2022 by poppyfields

[stillafool]

3 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

I just don't understand why he always feels someone is chasing him, tracking him down, trapping him... Actually I'm pretty confident her family will be very relieved once they divorce, so will be most of his family. It is some kind of fictional narrative he got himself into and i don't believe it but I think he believes his own logic.

Perhaps he's acting out in hopes that she will care enough to chase, track and trap him into coming home to her at night.   I've seen MM do this as a matter of fact my brother did with his first wife.  He admitted to me that he had an affair but said he always wished it was his wife giving him that attention.  My uncle who had an affair told my Dad the same thing.

[stillafool]

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I didn't read that part (heck thread is 70 pages!) but from I did read, him NOT being married sticks out to me like a sore thumb.  So many of his behaviors make absolutely zero sense; I also recall reading that at one point, Tam herself was even questioning if he was married!

Impossible to know for sure, all I know is that there are men who do use it as a way to take the pressure off and prevents a woman from pushing for more commitment/marriage and again a lot of his behavior makes no sense and points to it being true.

Given this guy's age (late 40s) it's very possible.  He may have been running from women who were trying to get him to the altar for decades.  That would explain why he buys for other women's kids too.

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Given this guy's age (late 40s) it's very possible.  He may have been running from women who were trying to get him to the altar for decades.  That would explain why he buys for other women's kids too.

I am wondering if Tam will return confirming that she does in fact have solid tangible evidence/proof that he's married other than what he tells her which doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme.

I mean this thread is 71 pages of him claiming to be married, Tam being the OW, him promising to leave his "wife," and a whole lot of BS surrounding that which again makes zero sense to me, in fact reading much of it I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone, that's how little sense it made, including the latest which is he NOW needs another 4-6 months to leave.

No shared assets, no kids together, it makes very little sense that he would need this extra time.   He's BSing her.

I could very well be wrong, and again wondering if Tam will return refuting my suspicion with solid tangible proof.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by poppyfields

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

am wondering if Tam will return confirming that she does in fact have solid tangible evidence/proof that he's married

Most definitely she will say she has seen the proof that he is married.  As much as she obsesses over this poor woman I hope for Tam's sake he is married to her.

[poppyfields]

14 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Most definitely she will say she has seen the proof that he is married.

That would not convince me, I am hoping she tells us what that actual proof is.

Not that it's any of my business, it's not.  So if she wants to believe he's married and that he will leave this so-called "wife" in 4-6 months and they will run off together into the sunset and live happily ever after, that's her business.

Not gonna happen, he will continue stalling because he is enjoying the status quo.  Regardless of whether he's married or not.

He may even love her but has no intention of ever marrying her or fully committing, and keeping up this façade that he IS already married feels very safe for him.

JMO of course.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by poppyfields

[Estes]

He’s never stayed overnight. Even when he said his wife was out of state. 
 

That’s odd 

[Cali Lisa]

[Sorry this is long] Tam, I think you want to trust him but your intuition/gut/subconsciousness is telling you that something is fishy. That is why you are posting here - to get insight into your own mind. What you say here bounces back off of other people's collectively combined intuitions (based on empirically gathered information from our own lives), then we all interpret your clues and report back the picture you painted for us. 

You just want to know if things are going to end up well for you. So, if you came here and said "A, B and C, happened, what is next?" People would tell you "It sounds like D is next." You are giving us information that, you say, leads to a divorce between MM and his wife, but we just don't see it. The question becomes: is this a matter of human nature or not? I think it is. All of it. Including the social aspect, financial factors, compassion as part of human nature, etc. But more than anything, humans are able to feel LOVE. Love is stronger than any other feeling known to humans. Love makes people move mountains to be with the people they love. 

I think there is a deep sense of not getting enough love in your soul that you have accepted as a norm. It is not. You must understand that this is your internal problem that is creating all the mess in your life. Your MM is living in status quo. He is not slow to change because he is slow to change; he doesn't want to divorce his wife. If he doesn't want to divorce her now, he will not divorce her later. He will not divorce her because of you. If he wanted to do that, he would have done that or he would be doing it now. If he is not doing it now, he doesn't want to do it. Period. The face-value truth is: he doesn't want to leave his wife. He is not leaving her. 

He told you to help him in order to get you off his back. People will give you a task to get rid of you for a while. If he is asking you for help with his divorce, it's because he doesn't want to do it himself. He is thinking you want it, you research it and then he will think of another lie to shut you up . Time is not on your side. He is getting bored of you just like he got bored of his wife. He will find another you if you keep nagging about him divorcing his wife. You are probably not the first and not the last. I have never been the OW, but I caught my last ex cheating with a bunch of strangers and dumped his ass (tried to forgive him, but couldn't). That ex cheated on his previous GF, too. And that was not a clue for me because, of course, I was so much better, younger, prettier and skinnier than his ex, so how could he possibly cheat on me? Well, he did. And if you saw the pictures of those women, you would know that he's twisted in his head and wasn't exactly looking for Miss Right, but just sex. I was Miss Right which is why I earned the fancy title of his GF but they were all sex toys. Men step out of their steady relationships to get free sex. And because there are men who occasionally leave for the OW, then all men lie to all OW that the wife is a drag, the marriage is in disrepair and the OW is the cat's meow. Do you acknowledge at all the existence of LIES as a concept that humans apply in their life affairs? Because if you blindly trust your MM then you know he will file for divorce in 4-6 months without your assistance.  

Does his wife know about you? I don't care what he says, do YOU know for certain, that she is aware of you?

If not, do you realize that he is lying to his wife? Why do you think he'd be lying to someone he spent 10 years married to but not lying to you? Because he loves you? See, that's the problem - that you think this is love. It's not love. It's sex, fun, infatuation and a web of lies. You are planning a life with someone who is toying with you. Nothing will change, except that you will learn to never look at another married man again - for your own sake. I wish I could shake you up and make you snap out of his spells. Scratch the surface and you will uncover the thick layers of lies. Trust me on this.

[BaileyB]

57 minutes ago, Estes said:

He’s never stayed overnight. Even when he said his wife was out of state. 
 

That’s odd 

She cooks him dinner, they have sex, and then he goes home to his wife. 

As the song goes, it’s a nice life if you can get it - 

Quote

I am equally puzzled as you are.. Or is it something obvious?

The obvious answer is that he has things exactly as he wants them right now - 

[ExpatInItaly]

71 pages and months later, and still practically begging with man to be with you, Tam. 

Reality, when it finally hits you, is going to blow your world apart. 

Keep your friends and family very near. You are going to need them.

[TamBuktu]

27 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

71 pages and months later, and still practically begging with man to be with you, Tam. 

Reality, when it finally hits you, is going to blow your world apart. 

Keep your friends and family very near. You are going to need them.

Lol when I didn't even mention the topic, by you/others he'd have leave me if i did.
He didn't.
Now that we spoke about everything, I'm begging  That's a flawed logic.

[TamBuktu]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

She cooks him dinner, they have sex, and then he goes home to his wife. 

As the song goes, it’s a nice life if you can get it - 

The obvious answer is that he has things exactly as he wants them right now - 

Lol and on top of what you mentioned we hike every weekend to new places, play music, watch movies, visit friends, go to work functions, church, events, do yard work, fix stuff around the house, have surprise dates, and on occasion deal with nasty stuff like death, disease etc.

Like... well, like any other couple.

My question was different - it was about two things not adding up
-she following him
-him being here all the time
How does this happen?

[TamBuktu]

12 hours ago, poppyfields said:

That would not convince me, I am hoping she tells us what that actual proof is.

Not that it's any of my business, it's not.  So if she wants to believe he's married and that he will leave this so-called "wife" in 4-6 months and they will run off together into the sunset and live happily ever after, that's her business.

Not gonna happen, he will continue stalling because he is enjoying the status quo.  Regardless of whether he's married or not.

He may even love her but has no intention of ever marrying her or fully committing, and keeping up this façade that he IS already married feels very safe for him.

JMO of course.

 

Poppy - thanks for your input. Here is what i found as proof - let me know if it sounds plausible:
- he used to wear a ring - I haven't seen it recently (as in couple of years), but early on he had it and was hiding it
- her mother who we were helping out with something joked maybe that (her request) is a good reason for divorce
- I found old declaration on homestead stating she resides there and is married to him but not an owner. This was from 5+ years ago though
-she ocassionally calls with demands for him to do/fix something 

That's about all I have.

It doesn't add up to me 
- why he never brings her up in front of friends/family of his
- how the ring disappeared
- how he's out every evening and weekend days and she never cared (rolling eyes)

but if i believe him she's motivated by money/security at her age.

Also - he keeps bringing "common law" for occupancy - I'm wondering if that refers to no legal binding marriage, but still - she seems to be still around unfortunately..

[TamBuktu]

11 hours ago, Estes said:

He’s never stayed overnight. Even when he said his wife was out of state. 
 

That’s odd 

He doesn't want to set a precedent. 

We are not living a typical sneaky affair. More like a regular relationship with a complicating factor if I am to describe the dynamics.

[TamBuktu]

13 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I am wondering if Tam will return confirming that she does in fact have solid tangible evidence/proof that he's married other than what he tells her which doesn't mean a hill of beans in the grand scheme.

I mean this thread is 71 pages of him claiming to be married, Tam being the OW, him promising to leave his "wife," and a whole lot of BS surrounding that which again makes zero sense to me, in fact reading much of it I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone, that's how little sense it made, including the latest which is he NOW needs another 4-6 months to leave.

No shared assets, no kids together, it makes very little sense that he would need this extra time.   He's BSing her.

I could very well be wrong, and again wondering if Tam will return refuting my suspicion with solid tangible proof.

 

 

See my post to you above. For the extra time - it all boils down to him getting the guts to tell her. He is in a way selfish - doesn't want his pristine image to be flawed, and also his habits to be changed - he's a routine type of guy. These are not good reasons but undeniably play role in our case.

[TamBuktu]

13 hours ago, stillafool said:

Given this guy's age (late 40s) it's very possible.  He may have been running from women who were trying to get him to the altar for decades.  That would explain why he buys for other women's kids too.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got into their relationship to "save" himself from a more committed relationship (like equal partner, kids and responsibilities...) 

Well now it caught up on him and we'll change this:) He keep telling me that I'll change him, and he's so right.

[TamBuktu]

14 hours ago, stillafool said:

Pretty much like you are doing Tam.  You're in your 30s and your bio clock is ticking away yet you chose to put marriage and babies on hold to wait for, get this- another woman to divorce her husband so you can try to marry and get pregnant by him.  Yes you're right, love does make some make poor choices.

Yeah that's valid - I have done everything available in contemporary medicine to put it on hold... 
But yeah, could i have had it easier and have had a family already with other man? Very likely so. I don't think i could have found anyone that i click with that perfectly though.. So I put love first, and comfort/security second in my list of priorities, true.

[TamBuktu]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Okay here's a new one, but are you sure he's even married?   I mean how the hell can he be spending every single night with you, eat dinner with you every night and be married?  What wife would ever tolerate or accept that?  No wife at all, that's who.

The reason I question it is because I know two different guys who tell women they meet they are married, so (1) the women won't push for more, (2) won't push to spend the night (the men prefer to sleep alone), (3) nag them about spending holidays (they prefer spending holidays alone) or (4) otherwise push them (the guys) into marriage because they prefer to be alone and are in truth avoidants and commitment averse.

It's very emotionally safe for them pretending to be married, a stress free life basically.  Once the woman starts nagging him to leave his pretend wife, he's gone which may be what is beginning to happen now, with you and your guy.

I dunno reading this thread, just a gut feeling.  But I think it's possible you are being bamboozled but NOT in the way you think.  This man may NOT be married at all, it wouldn't surprise me.

This entire situation just sounds very very OFF.

 

 

He is married (or in a relationship he equates to marriage; the legal side of it I am also questioning) but yes, a lot of what you say is valid and applies.

Whatever their arrangement is 1) she won't push for kids (she's menopausal) 2) they don't sleep in the same room (he has practical excuse) 3) she never spends time with his family and friends, and lets him go wherever he wants alone 4) so he has the commitment without the responsibilities.

In a way it's a sweet situation. In another way - it's empty and futile.

But for him a marriage with me will turn all of the above upside down, he knows it, and I don't know if he's ready for it.

[Estes]

19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

He doesn't want to set a precedent. 

I’m sorry but this makes zero sense. If he won’t stay with you overnight when the opportunity arises he is NEVER going to take things any further. If he really wanted to be with you in a fully committed relationship he’d stay over whenever he could. The “not setting a precedence” excuse would be an eye opener for any mistress in such a situation but it’s not because you are in a state of delusion. 
 

[TamBuktu]

13 minutes ago, Estes said:

I’m sorry but this makes zero sense. If he won’t stay with you overnight when the opportunity arises he is NEVER going to take things any further. If he really wanted to be with you in a fully committed relationship he’d stay over whenever he could. The “not setting a precedence” excuse would be an eye opener for any mistress in such a situation but it’s not because you are in a state of delusion. 
 

I disagree- I don’t see it as helpful if he’s here while I sleep anyway. Once we approach marriage when/where to leave will be a struggle anyway for purely logistical reasons- old houses, maintenance etc. It’s easier when you’re young, at our age not so much..

Edited January 8, 2022 by TamBuktu

[RebeccaR]

51 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Like... well, like any other couple.

Except from never spending the night together. Never waking up together. That’s a pretty big exception.

It’s not even like a long distance relationship where you only spend weekends together. 

Never a single night. Think about what that means when comparing yourself to any other couple.

[Estes]

9 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I disagree- I don’t see it as helpful if he’s here while I sleep anyway.

Geez, I think curling up with my significant other and falling asleep either in one anothers arms or spooning is one of the best parts of being a couple. Then waking up and starting the day together... there's a LOT more to it than "Well we are just asleep anyway".

 

[RebeccaR]

10 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I don’t see it as helpful if he’s here while I sleep anyway

You are making excuses again. While there are exceptions (travel, LDR), in general that’s what couples do - live together. He apparently lives a few minutes away yet won’t stay the night. There’s a huge jump from “he has never stayed over” to “next year I want us to be married and living together with a baby”. If he was interested in that, wouldn’t he give it a test run?

Wouldn’t you like just once to fall asleep in his arms? To know the security of having him right there with you if you felt sick? If his wife truly didn’t care, couldn’t he get away for a single night? This is hard to understand.