It's complicated - insight needed

[stillafool]

53 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

They have bonded over a pet rescue organization, I don't see how this is concealing relevant information for the thread.

You never mentioned any pet rescue organization but a project you couldn't mention.  At any rate, they don't have to live together to bond and be involved in that type of organization.  They barely have to speak but once or twice a month.  Whatever is going on between them the so called "wife" is not your enemy nor the one perventing him from being with you.

[TamBuktu]

2 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

Does he know to the extent you have your life planned out with him being your husband full-time with kids?  Have you thought about how long you're willing to wait for him to be on the same page?  

You're so intent on getting your way here, I'd spell it out for him, don't beat around the bush any longer.  Give him the 6 months he needs to "get his affairs in order" and be done with it.  Seems like he only responds when women tell him what's going to happen, as you said.  

 

Thanks. You are right he doesn’t know the full extent. He knows I want his kids and that’s about all we have discussed so far+ logistics of making them. I need to spell out how I see the future, parenting styles etc. and then see what he does. Advice appreciated.

[stillafool]

1 minute ago, TamBuktu said:

Not sure what you mean, he knows how it works so I can’t “trick” him at home and in the clinic everything is documented. Anyway it’s not what I want so what’s the point?

I had a gf who actually punched holes in condoms and got pregnant by the man she loved.  She has a 22 year old daughter today as the result.  NBA players take their used condoms with them when they leave hotel rooms because women have played these games since the beginning of time.

[TamBuktu]

1 minute ago, stillafool said:

You never mentioned any pet rescue organization but a project you couldn't mention.  At any rate, they don't have to live together to bond and be involved in that type of organization.  They barely have to speak but once or twice a month.  Whatever is going on between them the so called "wife" is not your enemy nor the one perventing him from being with you.

Right, I was/still am scared he or she reads here. This was more involved than once or twice a month for sure. I was participating in some of the things, fostering etc. I agree with you she’s not the enemy, HIS mind and fears are the main hurdle moving forward.

[Wiseman2]

41 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

 fertility planning + the dreaded "tell me more about her" talk.

Why would you need to talk about his wife/marriage? it has nothing to do with whether he wants to be with you long term.

It seems you are alone in your fertility planning because you have taken care of some aspects except for trying to implant embryos or get pregnant from a single man who is willing to marry you.

If you want his his child while he's married that's fine, as long as you have permission to use his embryo.

[stillafool]

40 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

I agree with you she’s not the enemy, HIS mind and fears are the main hurdle moving forward.

Then why do you need this:

 

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

My main focus will be separation timeline and fertility planning + the dreaded "tell me more about her" talk.

Why do you continue to obsess over this woman?  Careful, he may see your jealousy.  Other than "when can you leave?" there is nothing more that is your business about her.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

I had a gf who actually punched holes in condoms and got pregnant by the man she loved.  She has a 22 year old daughter today as the result.  NBA players take their used condoms with them when they leave hotel rooms because women have played these games since the beginning of time.

I won't do this, I thought you meant transferring an embryo.
Maybe it's me hanging out in fertility forums for way too long but I can't believe it is even a thing except if the guy has some "super sperm" that defies the spermicide of the condoms etc

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

Then why do you need this:

 

Why do you continue to obsess over this woman?  Careful, he may see your jealousy.  Other than "when can you leave?" there is nothing more that is your business about her.

People keep giving me this advice to figure out what's going on (married/cohabing/still involved etc). And that he might have a reason that I don't know about to stay.
Otherwise for my own mental health, the less I know, the better i feel. Plus it puts the focus away from what actually matters - our future life.

[TamBuktu]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why would you need to talk about his wife/marriage? it has nothing to do with whether he wants to be with you long term.

It seems you are alone in your fertility planning because you have taken care of some aspects except for trying to implant embryos or get pregnant from a single man who is willing to marry you.

If you want his his child while he's married that's fine, as long as you have permission to use his embryo.

See above opinions - I guess him keeping me in the dark is a red flag for a lot of the people that wrote here and overall.

I am not exactly enthusiastic to learn about his relationship history. If it will help moving forward - I can stomach it.

He knows nothing about my relationship history except the very bare minimum. I never mentioned names or specific experiences. To me past is past and doesn't matter to us a couple anyway. Only reason to wonder about his relationship is because it is still current and there might be something preventing him from terminating it (well, beyond the obvious - guilt, shame and inconvenience of a divorce).

I can't make a decision to get pregnant without him being divorced and us at least engaged. It's something I struggle with because I want a baby very bad but then I always come to this being against my morals, image etc.

Edited January 12, 2022 by TamBuktu

[ufo8mycat]

2 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

guess I don't 100% trust he'll stick around if things get hard. And also - deeply rooted desire to have a picture-perfect, traditional family. Are these good enough reasons?

Your reasons are valid, the first one - he has given you evidence that he doesn’t deal with difficult interpersonal matters well. I know you hope he will be different - more masculine, more honest, but does he want this is he working to change? Your posts indicate that you are really upset at his first relationship for denying him kids, but you overlook wth HE has agency, he had choices and he was happy with he choices.

you indicate in your posts that other women have dominated him to get what they want. But he seems steadfast and not easily swayed, buy you at least. 
 

the deeply rooted desire for a picture perfect family rings alarm bells for therapy. This is something you need to explore because it literally doesn’t exist. Where did this desire come from? Can only one type of family be picture perfect, what happens if you don’t have the perfect family. Is no family better than the imperfect family? You have also chosen a man with a history of being unable to deliver. If a picture perfect family is so important to you, you are making really bad choices of the players.

I didn’t meet my life partner until I was in my late 30s and I am not early 40s. You seem to indicate that the sky will fall in if you don’t conceive now. It won’t. Things are different and harder in some respects. But healthy babies are entirely possible and common. 
 

I honestly think you will get your picture perfect family by going ahead in your own, than having the picture ruined as you keep pushing this man to be someone he simply isn’t. 

[stillafool]

55 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

Only reason to wonder about his relationship is because it is still current and there might be something preventing him from terminating it (well, beyond the obvious - guilt, shame and inconvenience of a divorce).

Isn't that enough?  Not to mention the lies he's been telling his wife.  There is no easy way out of an affair that leads to divorce.  He has to buck up and come clean to her.  Not gaslight her into thinking marriage counseling will fix their problem (if she even said that).  If so, that was his chance to come clean to her but he didn't.  When betrayed spouses learn the truth they can then make the best decisions for their life.  MM should give his wife that opportunity.  She may hold the door open for him to leave if she knows he's in love with another woman.  I know I would if my husband told me that.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

People keep giving me this advice to figure out what's going on (married/cohabing/still involved etc).

My friend, if you are three years in and you can’t answer this basic question - you got problems. You are trying to build a house on sand here - not going to happen… 

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

I am not exactly enthusiastic to learn about his relationship history. If it will help moving forward - I can stomach it.

Most women would have asked these question in the first month! It’s not such a difficult conversation to have - except, if you decide to have an affair with a married man. 

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

He knows nothing about my relationship history except the very bare minimum.

I bet he knows that you are not married to another man. I’m sure he bothered to get that information up front - 

[stillafool]

1 hour ago, TamBuktu said:

It's something I struggle with because I want a baby very bad but then I always come to this being against my morals, image etc.

What about this affair?  Is it against your morals and image?

[TamBuktu]

42 minutes ago, ufo8mycat said:

Your reasons are valid, the first one - he has given you evidence that he doesn’t deal with difficult interpersonal matters well. I know you hope he will be different - more masculine, more honest, but does he want this is he working to change? Your posts indicate that you are really upset at his first relationship for denying him kids, but you overlook wth HE has agency, he had choices and he was happy with he choices.

you indicate in your posts that other women have dominated him to get what they want. But he seems steadfast and not easily swayed, buy you at least. 
 

the deeply rooted desire for a picture perfect family rings alarm bells for therapy. This is something you need to explore because it literally doesn’t exist. Where did this desire come from? Can only one type of family be picture perfect, what happens if you don’t have the perfect family. Is no family better than the imperfect family? You have also chosen a man with a history of being unable to deliver. If a picture perfect family is so important to you, you are making really bad choices of the players.

I didn’t meet my life partner until I was in my late 30s and I am not early 40s. You seem to indicate that the sky will fall in if you don’t conceive now. It won’t. Things are different and harder in some respects. But healthy babies are entirely possible and common. 
 

I honestly think you will get your picture perfect family by going ahead in your own, than having the picture ruined as you keep pushing this man to be someone he simply isn’t. 

Yes I’m really upset about the woman from his past because I witness daily the damage she has done on him (including having hooked up with the current wife). If an elderly terminally ill divorcee coerced my future son in a relationship (at a point if his life where he was at the lowest of the lows emotionally) from which he’d get nothing but pain, trust me she’d have serious issues with me.

On the domination- I’ve intentionally let him lead almost everything between us, in relationship sense, until mere few months ago. I wanted him to get the sense of a real relationship not somebody “mommy”-ing him, but he’s just so broken from his past experiences I realized it’s not a style that he can appreciate it even understand.

You might be right for the imperfect family. Mine was horrible on so many levels except “traditional” that I wanted to change that to something different (better) for my future kids.

Great conceiving late in life worked for you, I’m so scared at this point of my life that I’ll lose the opportunity for bio-kids, I’ll blame myself for the rest of my days if that turned to be the case because of waiting too long.. But yet I just can’t picture having kids with him before he makes at very least definite strides towards divorce and remarriage.

[TamBuktu]

17 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Isn't that enough?  Not to mention the lies he's been telling his wife.  There is no easy way out of an affair that leads to divorce.  He has to buck up and come clean to her.  Not gaslight her into thinking marriage counseling will fix their problem (if she even said that).  If so, that was his chance to come clean to her but he didn't.  When betrayed spouses learn the truth they can then make the best decisions for their life.  MM should give his wife that opportunity.  She may hold the door open for him to leave if she knows he's in love with another woman.  I know I would if my husband told me that.

Yes! This was a wasted perfect opportunity for him. He’s also so stuck in his “good guy” image I don’t see him ever coming clean. More likely he’ll put it on her in one way or another (even if he initiates he’s going to present it for her happiness). It’s very messed up thinking but I get it

If I tell her, would it be better for all? My head also hurts thinking she’s retiring this year and instead of having a secure future ahead she’ll need to start all over.. it sucks. I’m trying to abstract from this because guilt is piling.

 

[TamBuktu]

18 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

My friend, if you are three years in and you can’t answer this basic question - you got problems. You are trying to build a house on sand here - not going to happen… 

Most women would have asked these question in the first month! It’s not such a difficult conversation to have - except, if you decide to have an affair with a married man. 

I bet he knows that you are not married to another man. I’m sure he bothered to get that information up front - 

I didn’t start with the idea of him becoming my life partner. We were friends having a blast together for a long time, then one thing led to another and here we are. This is not your typical start with intention of marriage, things just crystallized along the way.

[TamBuktu]

19 minutes ago, stillafool said:

What about this affair?  Is it against your morals and image?

It is but I always tell myself it’s not something I’ve done, asked for or have been even told about. I let it happen yes, and yes, it’s not something I want to be known for

[RebeccaR]

15 minutes ago, TamBuktu said:

My head also hurts thinking she’s retiring this year and instead of having a secure future ahead she’ll need to start all over.. it sucks.

If you feel guilty for this, imagine how he feels. I doubt he would do that to her, frankly. Even if he no longer loves her, guilt alone will cause him to ensure her financial security. (Aside from whatever spousal support he will legally owe). You said earlier you earn enough for both of you, so he may feel he can continue supporting her.

[stillafool]

Tam you yourself said he's always loved older women and his current wife is quite beautiful.  This is the first time we've heard about the terminally ill, divorcee who coerced him into marriage at a very young age.  Are you referring to his 1st wife?

Edited January 12, 2022 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

guilt alone will cause him to ensure her financial security.

She'll still have a secure future with or without him.  What about the two accounts you talked about earlier?  She may have an even better future if she get's rid of this cheatering husband of hers.   If she looks like you said perhaps she will find a better man for herself.

Edited January 12, 2022 by stillafool

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, TamBuktu said:

My main focus will be separation timeline and fertility planning + the dreaded "tell me more about her" talk.

You need to have the "tell me more about her" talk as your first priority.
EVERYTHING hinges on it.
No point in making any plans if he is never going to leave her due to love, obligation, vows, promises, sense of duty, doesn't want to abandon her,  determined to stick by her.. etc. etc.
You assume you are the important one here and that he wants what you want, but that may not be true.
He is deliberately opaque.
You need to really ask yourself why?
A 50 yo man who is desperate to have a wife and family would be biting your hand off, as time it is a-passing and waits for no man... BUT him?
He is stalling and coasting and fobbing you off.
You don't even know for sure if he is even married, never mind what he actually thinks about that relationship.
You assume too much IMO.

[RebeccaR]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

A 50 yo man who is desperate to have a wife and family would be biting your hand off, as time it is a-passing and waits for no man...

Good point. Tam, he said he’s worried about being in a walker at his child’s graduation. But surely the longer he spends agonizing, the more likely this becomes? If he spends 2 more years deciding, then another year or 2 before the baby would be born, he will conveniently (for him) decide that he is now just too old.

[TamBuktu]

14 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

What was the actual age difference between him and his previous partner? I’m curious because you keep saying elderly. You even talk about the sixtyish current wife as if she has one foot in the grave. Unless she was truly 80 to his 20 or something similarly outlandish, stop using denigrating language. Maybe he just likes older women, finds them more mature and intelligent, etc.

Denigrating someone for their age or looks is often rooted in jealousy - it’s not a good look.

20something years. I get the attraction to older people, I am drawn to the wisdom, life experiences etc myself. However the way how it turned shows my point that in relationships biology takes precedent - he was left devastated after she died and sought similar. I hope we have future (family) together, otherwise I can picture him as sad, old, lonely  man with nothing to live for in two decades or under 

[TamBuktu]

13 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Tam you yourself said he's always loved older women and his current wife is quite beautiful.  This is the first time we've heard about the terminally ill, divorcee who coerced him into marriage at a very young age.  Are you referring to his 1st wife?

A previous partner of his. Hope not but biology speaks - this one will be there in no time too  Time is ruthless. I sincerely hope she gets together with her ex and have a happy retirement somewhere away from us.

[TamBuktu]

12 minutes ago, stillafool said:

She'll still have a secure future with or without him.  What about the two accounts you talked about earlier?  She may have an even better future if she get's rid of this cheatering husband of hers.   If she looks like you said perhaps she will find a better man for herself.

I'm praying day and night she will. She comes from money, she'll be okay. I can't imagine her being happy with him even if we weren't together for many reasons.