Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, RebeccaR said: Good point. Tam, he said he’s worried about being in a walker at his child’s graduation. But surely the longer he spends agonizing, the more likely this becomes? If he spends 2 more years deciding, then another year or 2 before the baby would be born, he will conveniently (for him) decide that he is now just too old. Right, I need to act ASAP because of that. There won't be two years to pregnancy if I have planned things right. If I haven't unforeseen medical issue or related), i'd be devastated anyway... We need to act this year and I am torn how to do it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, elaine567 said: You need to have the "tell me more about her" talk as your first priority. EVERYTHING hinges on it. No point in making any plans if he is never going to leave her due to love, obligation, vows, promises, sense of duty, doesn't want to abandon her, determined to stick by her.. etc. etc. You assume you are the important one here and that he wants what you want, but that may not be true. He is deliberately opaque. You need to really ask yourself why? A 50 yo man who is desperate to have a wife and family would be biting your hand off, as time it is a-passing and waits for no man... BUT him? He is stalling and coasting and fobbing you off. You don't even know for sure if he is even married, never mind what he actually thinks about that relationship. You assume too much IMO. Well knowing details why wouldn't help me? It's an awful thing to talk (or think) about, I get tachycardic every time I bring this conversation I hoped he'll solve it without involving me too much. He is waiting because he's so broken (in my opinion) he is unable to make decisions without approval. That's what they have turned him into. He can (and will) do better once we are together but I don't know how to progress the current situation faster. Yeah I went on intuition for far too long... It was my fault to start with, now I'm desperately trying to fix the communication style. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: I can't imagine her being happy with him even if we weren't together for many reasons. Maybe you have this all wrong, maybe she is the one who is rejecting him and he is the one distracting himself with you, but he actually wants her to want him again... hence why he always goes home. "love" can work in funny ways. I know a lot of the guys in sexless distant marriages, want nothing more than their wife to love them again, hence why they don't leave. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: he was left devastated after she died and sought similar. It sounds like he will grow old with his wife and stay by her side until she dies. As he told you, he doesn't want to be an old dad or a dad at all. She is perfect for him because they have a life together, he has his freedom and they spend every night together. So he is quite dedicated to her. What extra time he has on his hands, while he's supposedly working or whatever he tells her, is spend fooling around with you. Yet you are building this fantasy future in your mind about him replete with dialogues that never take place, that is no where near fruition, in fact never even talked about except in riddles, vagueness so he can avoid addressing it. Perhaps when he's widowed he may seek out your company full time. Perhaps have a child/relationship in the meantime? Think about yourself and your own future and happiness, particularly if you want children soon. They are set. Edited January 12, 2022 by Wiseman2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RebeccaR Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Right, I need to act ASAP because of that. There won't be two years to pregnancy if I have planned things right. If I haven't unforeseen medical issue or related), i'd be devastated anyway... We need to act this year and I am torn how to do it. If time is of the essence, you have to put your own discomfort aside and just act. I know you are analytical and trying to determine which approach might convince him vs. which might push him away, but you need to speak frankly to him right now. But I think you are so scared to speak openly to “the love of your life” that you would rather adjust your goalposts and tell yourself “everything is fine”. Again, you can’t explain how you both can be so deeply in love yet you can’t speak frankly to him. Doesn’t bode well 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Well knowing details why wouldn't help me? Knowing why he is being opaque may not help you, but you need to know the reality of the situation, surely? NO point in dreaming dreams when they may never come true, if he is NEVER going to leave her or EVER be the father/husband you want him to be. You need to know the true state of his relationship with her, as without that knowledge, all your future plans may be null and void... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 58 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: 20something years. I get the attraction to older people, I am drawn to the wisdom, life experiences etc myself. However the way how it turned shows my point that in relationships biology takes precedent - he was left devastated after she died and sought similar. I hope we have future (family) together, otherwise I can picture him as sad, old, lonely man with nothing to live for in two decades or under Only 20 something years? That would mean he was in his 20s and she was in her 40s, hardly and old woman and was she terminally ill? If so he must have been desperately in love with her to marry her in that shape. I hardly think a terminally ill woman is up to all the manipulation you speak of. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 46 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Maybe you have this all wrong, maybe she is the one who is rejecting him and he is the one distracting himself with you, but he actually wants her to want him again... hence why he always goes home. "love" can work in funny ways. I know a lot of the guys in sexless distant marriages, want nothing more than their wife to love them again, hence why they don't leave. This is what I've thought all along. Some MM who cheat are looking for some signal of jealousy from their wives to show them they still want them. My own brother told me this when he was having affairs on his 1st wife; he said "the whole time I was f---king around I always wished it was B------y no them." Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, stillafool said: This is what I've thought all along. Some MM who cheat are looking for some signal of jealousy from their wives to show them they still want them. My own brother told me this when he was having affairs on his 1st wife; he said "the whole time I was f---king around I always wished it was B------y no them." It is is also I guess why when they get found out, they are often desperate to get rid of the OW and want to reconcile with the wife. Marrying someone as opposed to just dating them/ living with them can be a very big deal and can be underestimated by the OW. She may assume she has it made and of course he will choose her, that is until he doesn't... Too many OWs get hurt by MM. Assume nothing. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, RebeccaR said: If time is of the essence, you have to put your own discomfort aside and just act. I know you are analytical and trying to determine which approach might convince him vs. which might push him away, but you need to speak frankly to him right now. But I think you are so scared to speak openly to “the love of your life” that you would rather adjust your goalposts and tell yourself “everything is fine”. Again, you can’t explain how you both can be so deeply in love yet you can’t speak frankly to him. Doesn’t bode well Years and years of hiding how I feel from abusive family and past partner, if you need a concrete explanation. Conditioning. Otherwise fully agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: Maybe you have this all wrong, maybe she is the one who is rejecting him and he is the one distracting himself with you, but he actually wants her to want him again... hence why he always goes home. "love" can work in funny ways. I know a lot of the guys in sexless distant marriages, want nothing more than their wife to love them again, hence why they don't leave. They were distant from the very start to my understanding. He got together with her while still grieving past GF + family member that died one after another. She alienated some of his family members that he adores. She alienated some of his friends (I heard anecdotal story of her spilling a drink in someone's face, he never spoke to her again; I'm sure it's a character not an isolated event). So I'm very secure it's not what you're saying above. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 41 minutes ago, stillafool said: Only 20 something years? That would mean he was in his 20s and she was in her 40s, hardly and old woman and was she terminally ill? If so he must have been desperately in love with her to marry her in that shape. I hardly think a terminally ill woman is up to all the manipulation you speak of. Well it was late 20s/early 50s. She wasn't that old back then obviously and would have been fine as a steamy summer fling but nope, she involved him so deeply in her life, raising her children, even her divorce, which happened at some point of their relationship (which lasted over 10 years but only last few were sexual, initially was just friendship+crush - or so he says because he was VERY young back then and she was married). She was in remission and her cancer returned, this was when they were sexually and romantically involved. Then it progressed to the point she was getting fed through a tube and eventually passed. Her kid couldn't take the death and he had to step up like a step-parent to save them from antisocial behavior or worse. At the same time he was a caregiver of his parent who was slowly dying from something horrible. Anyhow, they never married nor even cohabitated. But in his mind he's glorifying this woman and their experiences (which for me from descriptions were... I can't even put it in words, she was pushing him to date others for God sakes and her mother was so condescending he wasn't allowed in the house... besides all the help and wast of his youth because of her daughter). That's that in a nutshell. Current wife comes in the picture within months after this old GF died, his parent died, and his life turned upside down. I guess she "saved" him in a way, emotionally, which may explain why he doesn't have the guts to leave her 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Ugh, would you please stop with this, "He's so broken" nonsense? He is a fully grown man. He did not get molded or manipulated or broken by these awful older wives. He consciously sought out and stayed married to older, dominant women. He is not a victim he created/creates this setup. He chooses this. And every day he doesn't leave, he is making a choice to stay married. 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author TamBuktu Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, Crazelnut said: Ugh, would you please stop with this, "He's so broken" nonsense? He is a fully grown man. He did not get molded or manipulated or broken by these awful older wives. He consciously sought out and stayed married to older, dominant women. He is not a victim he created/creates this setup. He chooses this. And every day he doesn't leave, he is making a choice to stay married. Read above, I just tried to explain in my last post, although I was trying to avoid sharing this by now (because the person in question passed away, making it extra inappropriate for me to share it). I think it's not exactly a typical life story. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: They were distant from the very start to my understanding. He got together with her while still grieving past GF + family member that died one after another. She alienated some of his family members that he adores. She alienated some of his friends (I heard anecdotal story of her spilling a drink in someone's face, he never spoke to her again; I'm sure it's a character not an isolated event). So I'm very secure it's not what you're saying above. Tam, have you ever read the book "Why Men Love b****es" or why so many men with crazy, bi-polar exes can't get over them? You can read around here and see when it comes to most of these guys it seems the worse their women treat them the more they love and want them. We cannot convince them to let them go. They are the equivalent of the bad boy as it relates to women. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazelnut Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Read above, I just tried to explain in my last post, although I was trying to avoid sharing this by now (because the person in question passed away, making it extra inappropriate for me to share it). I think it's not exactly a typical life story. I did read above. It doesn't change my opinion. He is not a victim. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Current wife comes in the picture within months after this old GF died, his parent died, and his life turned upside down. I guess she "saved" him in a way, emotionally, which may explain why he doesn't have the guts to leave her She probably did “save him” from the grief and the loss he was feeling at the time. A lot of people develop relationships as a method of coping - it is neither healthy or unhealthy. Some of these relationships will turn out to be healthy, long term relationship and others not. Just because you don’t think they are a good couple doesn’t mean that they weren’t once, or still are, for all you know. For goodness sake, you can’t even say with certainty whether they are legally married. Who are you to assume anything about their marriage - The fact of the matter is, he chose to be in a relationship with the woman and he continues to chose to stay in that relationship every single day… 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, TamBuktu said: Well it was late 20s/early 50s. Late 20s is not a baby so he was perfectly capable of making his own decisions without manipulation. He did what he wanted to do for her out of love. Then went on and married another woman who was his type - an older woman. Younger men and women do not stay with their older partners unless they want to or are gaining something from it. They just don't. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ufo8mycat Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 hours ago, TamBuktu said: Yes I’m really upset about the woman from his past because I witness daily the damage she has done on him (including having hooked up with the current wife). If an elderly terminally ill divorcee coerced my future son in a relationship (at a point if his life where he was at the lowest of the lows emotionally) from which he’d get nothing but pain, trust me she’d have serious issues with me. You really need to check your understanding here. Ask him about it, how does he feel about it now? Would he do the same again? What was it he loved about her? Because I honestly think you know very little about this relationship and it’s easier for you to believe that he was some how coerced than giving him the credit for the choices HE chose to make. This is what makes my head spin. This guy has been clear. He is avoidant, he likes to take the secondary role (submissive if you will) , he didn’t really want kids - he has a family from that relationship even if not biologically. You say you are a scientist with post graduate qualifications? Then use your training. What are the gaps in evidence? What does the evidence you have tell you? leave the biased interpretation at the door, because you wouldn’t interpret data would known bias, would you? you are risking your ideal family for this man. Don’t you want to do your due diligence before you knowingly let this pass you by? Again, the evidence is this man does not end relationships. You also don’t seem to have the influencing skills of his precious partners. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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